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MD and Archaeology

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Re: MD and Archaeology

Postby liamnolan » Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:31 pm

Thanks allectus, but as Jim says, we have all at some time or other said the wrong thing or be totally misunderstood. I have been down that road too many times =)) =))
Its a big pity that the MD community don't seem to have a really strong body that would put us on equal terms with everyone else who shares a passion for recovering the past and learning from that.
Archaeology is basically the study of human culture through the recovery of artefacts. I know its a lot more complicated than that, but thats what it is in a nutshell. So that would also be US.
Archaeologists spend their working lives doing what we do at times we can manage when not doing everything else. :))
We are very disorganised and thats a sad fact. I spend hours trawling the net for background information on many aspects of detecting. Today it is Deserted Villages as alongside one of my sites is an area that looks very much like the outlines of linear strips of where villagers would have grown crops. Many villages were flattened when a wealthy Lord decided to build a mansion and wanted a more scenic view out of his window and there is such a building 200m away and a Saxon Church the same distance away that would have once had a congregation. Coincidence?
If I was an organised archaeologist, I would be able to click on an enormous amount of research data and that would save me so much time. :(
For 2012 I am considering tackling a Landscape Archaeology course at my Uni down the road, we are never too old to learn and there is so much that I need to know.
Better stop rambling on ... good luck to everyone digging holes, Liam B-)
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Re: MD and Archaeology

Postby GREGGOWREX » Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:47 pm

Im wondering if you acquire more knowledge about archaeology...would that stop you digging holes randomly ..If say ,you identified roman pottery ...would you stop digging and keep the site safe and inform the powers to be ...gaining more knowledge could put a person in an awkward position :-/
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Re: MD and Archaeology

Postby Trotboy » Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:04 pm

greggowrex wrote:Im wondering if you acquire more knowledge about archaeology...would that stop you digging holes randomly ..If say ,you identified roman pottery ...would you stop digging and keep the site safe and inform the powers to be ...gaining more knowledge could put a person in an awkward position :-/


I think it should to to be honest, it should at least make you stop and think a bit. If I felt I had found a site of significance archaeologically which could offer context and I might be causing damage to it I would certainly bring in the FLO and the County Archaeologists ASAP and stop any further detecting.

I have a site which has had some aerial photographs taken of it by the County Archaeologists and has been earmarked as 'of interest' - I contacted them and obtained copies of the photos and have agreed not to detect where the crop mark is located because they would rather I did not. I do have an issue with that though, because as I pointed out to them it is being ploughed every year and my detecting will only rescue artefacts from that plough layer. But I respect their request because I want to keep a good working relationship with them.

My brother has recently found a number of Roman coins in a small area of a field along with mortar/plaster and building material, he has stopped any further detecting in that area until he shows his finds and the eyes only material to the FLO this week.
Recent finds: Papal Bulla of Clement V, Mary Groat, James 1st Scottish 20p, Republican Silver Denarius 130BC, Trajan Silver Denarius.
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Re: MD and Archaeology

Postby GREGGOWREX » Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:33 pm

Could you imagine months and months of searching to gain your first permission ...and you get one that you have to call in the experts ...Id be gutted :(( :(( :(( ...still its the right thing to do tho :)
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Re: MD and Archaeology

Postby grubster » Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:40 pm

liamnolan wrote:
Allectus wrote:Apologies Jim.... Nothing personal M8. :-!
Just merely pointing out that some of these ancient history 'experts' don't know their a**e from their elbow imo.

A ;)

Re the above statement, what evidence have you got to support it?

Are you referring to archaeologists? Many MD users on this forum might qualify as "ancient history experts", after over 30 years of finding artefacts that span 3000 years or more. ;)
If you are referring to an author of a book on "Celtic origins" or whatever, that person would probably have spent 20 years+ in the history/archaeology arena to feel confident and knowledgeable enough to put his reputation on the block. He could still make mistakes as we can all do, maybe take the wrong slant on some event that happened 3000 years ago and which has no written account, but that would not mean he does not know his a**e from his elbow.
We get the same situation when an artefact is wrongly identified by the FLO. The shape and condition of a find can change enormously over 2000 years in the soil and its very easy to get things wrong. The ID service is free, the time is given freely and we should appreciate that.
A while back I chatted to our FLO about the negative views of some archaeologists re detecting. In Norfolk we have a great situation, no probs at all but I am aware that things are not the same everywhere. He agreed that there were some people on his side of the fence who needed to benefit from a more positive relationship with the MD community, but he also suggested that we had the same problem ourselves, forum members very quick to criticise archaeologists at any opportunity and this then leads to a tit for tat ongoing battle.
I have been digging up blobs of lead for 30 years and have met what I think is a good cross section of detectorists and archaeologists. There are good and bad on both sides.
I am not saying don't criticise, far from it, but if we do then do so as if the person was in front of you and you can defend your position. A sobering thought that we should all have in mind when we say anything negative ;)
Liam

Most archaeologist's hate us md's but it will change as they are not all stupid and will soon see it is in there interest's to be nice to us lol
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Re: MD and Archaeology

Postby liamnolan » Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:45 pm

quote - "Most archaeologist's hate us md's but it will change as they are not all stupid and will soon see it is in there interest's to be nice to us lol"

And with that attitude, we will always have a big problem. Archaeologists do not all hate us and they are certainly not stupid, Liam B-)
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Re: MD and Archaeology

Postby grubster » Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:54 pm

liamnolan wrote:quote - "Most archaeologist's hate us md's but it will change as they are not all stupid and will soon see it is in there interest's to be nice to us lol"

And with that attitude, we will always have a big problem. archaeologistists do not all hate us and they are certainly not stupid, Liam B-)
you obviously don't watch any archaeology site's on the internet then i'm alway's checking them to see what i can learn and most of the one's i know are often slagging md's off
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Re: MD and Archaeology

Postby grubster » Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:55 pm

this is just one ps im graham Heritage Action
Metal Detecting: A Landowners’ Guide to “Finds Agreements”
Like · · Share · 15 January at 01:50 via dlvr.it
please look at the link in blue
2 people like this.
Graham Chetwynd To be honest when i show most of my farmer's what i have found they are not interested in the slightest. Even my bronze age axe head 3 farmers are interested enough to take a look out of about 20 odd and probually about 700 acre's what the farmer's really don't want if you ask them is Archaeologist trapesing across their land. SECTION 6 OF THE NATIONAL METAL DETECTING COUNCIL'S CODE OF CONDUCT IS Report all unusual historical finds to the landowner, and acquaint yourself with current NCMD policy relating to the Voluntary Reporting of Portable Antiquities. i replied below

SO YOUR LITTLE STATEMENT ABOUT NOTHING SAID ABOUT REPORTING FIND'S TP THE PAS AND FLO IS FALSE
16 January at 17:24 · Like
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Re: MD and Archaeology

Postby liamnolan » Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:24 pm

That **** nonsense is absolute rubbish and in a minute I will be removing the link as it strengthens his site every time someone clicks on it. He is ridiculed by our FLO and is seen by every archaeologist I have met as an embarrassment to how they get on with the detecting community.
Don't even think for a minute that he represents the average archaeologist. He now lives in Poland, so unsure as to why he now seems besotted with English Heritage.
Re the building sites, have been through all that myself some years back but the foreman cannot give permission because he does not own the land, so any detecting would be illegal.
It all boils down to treating each other with respect and trying to understand the others points of view. Sitting around the table and chatting is a good start, may even try to get something like that organised, could be fun! (may send you an invite!) =)) =))
As has been said, there are good and bad on both sides, same as anything else in this world.
We need to remain positive and hope that the positive minded people on both sides end up with the power to make sensible laws. Liam B-)
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Re: MD and Archaeology

Postby jesterjim » Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:40 pm

Sorry Grubster but I agree with Liam on this.....it is for precisely that attitude that we had so much trouble in the 70s, 80s and early 90s.... you probably weren't even in to detecting then so you'd be unaware of the terrific battles we had getting not only archaeologists but officialdom and the media to accept us as people who had a passion for history and saving our heritage not just 'Treasure Hunters'.....that's partly why I tend to get annoyed with people who detect just to sell finds......it's a personal thing but it's something I object to... and I mean no offence to those who do sell...as I say it's a personal thing...there are a minority of archaeologists who still resent the fact that we are here just as you resent them and as long as this pettiness continues there will always be a battle to fight... I am one of the people of who have been fighting for this hobby for 30 years or more just so that you still have the chance to detect, because if we hadn't, detecting would now be illegal...for now we have a very good working relationship with the majority of archaeologists...however it only takes a few bad plums to spoil the pudding and that goes for both sides....

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Re: MD and Archaeology

Postby grubster » Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:48 pm

jesterjim wrote:Sorry Grubster but I agree with Liam on this.....it is for precisely that attitude that we had so much trouble in the 70s, 80s and early 90s.... you probably weren't even in to detecting then so you'd be unaware of the terrific battles we had getting not only archaeologists but officialdom and the media to accept us as people who had a passion for history and saving our heritage not just 'Treasure Hunters'.....that's partly why I tend to get annoyed with people who detect just to sell finds......it's a personal thing but it's something I object to... and I mean no offence to those who do sell...as I say it's a personal thing...there are a minority of archaeologists who still resent the fact that we are here just as you resent them and as long as this pettiness continues there will always be a battle to fight... I am one of the people of who have been fighting for this hobby for 30 years or more just so that you still have the chance to detect, because if we hadn't, detecting would now be illegal...for now we have a very good working relationship with the majority of archaeologists...however it only takes a few bad plums to spoil the pudding and that goes for both sides....

Jim. B| B| B|

I started detecting at 12 in 1981 sorry i do not have a problem with them at all i have a problem those that slag us all off
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Re: MD and Archaeology

Postby Beany_bot » Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:58 pm

Just wait until we get clay and pottery detectors. :D
Then we will see the metal detectorist back in the archeologists bad book in a big way =))
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Re: MD and Archaeology

Postby jesterjim » Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:05 pm

When I training to be a teacher the best piece of advice I was given was ' don't take it personally'....there'll always be those out there trying to wind us up and by reacting all that your doing is letting them get to you and playing their silly little games......no response is the best answer as I've found many times when some pathetic idiot tries to make 'Sir' look silly in the classroom....they're only playing to thir own little audience and the majority know what pratts they really are....

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Re: MD and Archaeology

Postby GREGGOWREX » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:01 am

I agree with the saying ...Variety is the spice of life ....if everyone thought the same ...done the same ...acted the same ...what a complete boring world we would live in :) .....I dont want to bring politics into it ....but only as an example .....you will get in archies and Mders....radicals ... lefties righties liberals....the dont knows ...the dont cares ...the what I know and I dont care for your opinions....the I am open to discussions people .....everyone has the right to come to their own conclusions .......some people on here will be against Archies...and they air their view on this public forum ......so you cant be suprised when the archies respond in a newspaper or other media sources.........Live and let live is the way to go ....its best to say " I do not share your opinion but thanks for your input anyway " :D
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Re: MD and Archaeology

Postby jesterjim » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:51 am

Well put Greg.........

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Re: MD and Archaeology

Postby liamnolan » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:13 pm

The more we learn, the more we realise that we didn't know much!
We can all learn from each other, but we have to open our minds and be prepared to listen.
When we talk we hear what we already know, when we listen, we hear things we did not know.
Liam ;)
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Re: MD and Archaeology

Postby GREGGOWREX » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:18 pm

liamnolan wrote:The more we learn, the more we realise that we didn't know much!
We can all learn from each other, but we have to open our minds and be prepared to listen.
When we talk we hear what we already know, when we listen, we hear things we did not know.
Liam ;)


correct liam :) ...although the knowledge quote sounded like it came from the old Kungfu Series...With Master telling Grasshopper :))
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Re: MD and Archaeology

Postby liamnolan » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:24 pm

Ha ha I spent 27 years in the teaching world, mostly at Young Offender Institutes (the old Borstals) and specialised in PE. It was great work, loved every minute, have just written a book titled "27 Years" and my head is still full of all kinds of small inspirational snippets that helped the young lads turn their ideas around.
Liam the Leprechaun Grasshopper =)) =)) =)) =)) =)) =))
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Re: MD and Archaeology

Postby jesterjim » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:13 pm

I did ten years as a secondary school Design Technology teacher trying to teach planks how not to destroy decent pieces of wood and metal, how not to ruin a circuit board with a soldering iron and to at least make some decent design drawings.......

A wise man is one with an open mind who is prepared to listen to others........

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Re: MD and Archaeology

Postby GREGGOWREX » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:19 pm

I agree jim ...A wiseman will always make franking sense :))
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