Approaching farmers tomorrow

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lothbrok
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Approaching farmers tomorrow

Post by lothbrok » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:45 pm

I have decided to delay the purchase of my Metal Detector- Garret Ace 400i - until I am able to get a permission to detect localy. I really didn’t want to have a nice new detector, just sitting around and then find myself in a position; that I can use it :(

Tomorrow I will start my search -in my area- and approach some farmers.
My plan of approach will be:
After friendly introduction -hopefully.
Start off by telling them that I am interested in finding out more about the local history.
Ask what they know about the area and their land.
See if it has been in the family for Genartions and ask if they have any interesting stories to tell or if they ever found anything on the land that maybe gave them an indication to its past. If this all goes well I will then ask if they would be open to me doing some detecting on the land OooO

I will go armed with my NCMD Membership card that arrived this morning :) pointing out that I have liability insurance and a searching agreement with code of conduct attached.

What do you think, is this the correct approach ? I am also prepared for a complete flat out NO and being told to sod off.
if that is the case, I will thank them for their time and tell them it is really appreciated and move on to the next.

Any advice or experiences with asking for permission would be greatly appreciated ;)


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Re: Approaching farmers tomorrow

Post by oldhamlad » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:44 pm

take some permission contracts with you and your detector so they know you are serious and not after doing anything dodgy be polite and take no for an answer you may get quite a few no's but eventually someone will say yes and then you will get some confidence and others will follow

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Re: Approaching farmers tomorrow

Post by oldhamlad » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:45 pm

also these farmers are very busy people so getting right down to the point no messing sometimes is best

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Re: Approaching farmers tomorrow

Post by littleboot » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:09 pm

Take an OS map of the area with you...or at the very least print off a Google map of each farm and take that with you .
Because, if you get your permission, you need the farmer to clarify where his land IS. (It isn't always obvious and its all too easy to stray through a gap in a hedge and assume you are still on the permission. Happened to me once or twice.....got permission, happy bunny, then another farmer hoves into view wondering why I haven't asked him!
So, in order to be clear what is the farmer's land....and which bits of it you can go on....take a map and pen.
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Re: Approaching farmers tomorrow

Post by lothbrok » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:50 pm

littleboot wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:09 pm
Take an OS map of the area with you...or at the very least print off a Google map of each farm and take that with you .
Because, if you get your permission, you need the farmer to clarify where his land IS. (It isn't always obvious and its all too easy to stray through a gap in a hedge and assume you are still on the permission. Happened to me once or twice.....got permission, happy bunny, then another farmer hoves into view wondering why I haven't asked him!
So, in order to be clear what is the farmer's land....and which bits of it you can go on....take a map and pen.
thanks for the tip on taking a map...I really wouldn't of thought of taking my OS map with me. will probably make me look more organised as well...lets hope I get to the point that I need the map ::g
oldhamlad wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:44 pm
take some permission contracts with you and your detector so they know you are serious and not after doing anything dodgy be polite and take no for an answer you may get quite a few no's but eventually someone will say yes and then you will get some confidence and others will follow
Haven't got my Detector yet but have got permissions contract printed ;)
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Re: Approaching farmers tomorrow

Post by stargazer » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:54 pm

Some swear by the contract approach, others on here don't.

I am in the don't camp. I have lots of land and in my experience farmers do not like to sign anything.

Be yourself, and focus on local history and you will be fine. Farmers are very perceptive.
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Re: Approaching farmers tomorrow

Post by lothbrok » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:15 pm

stargazer wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:54 pm
Some swear by the contract approach, others on here don't.

I am in the don't camp. I have lots of land and in my experience farmers do not like to sign anything.

Be yourself, and focus on local history and you will be fine. Farmers are very perceptive.
Thanks for the advice very much appreciated ;)
I can see your point about Farmers not wanting to sign anything. I will take contract along and play it by ear ;)
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Re: Approaching farmers tomorrow

Post by geoman » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:38 pm

Just have a care in case the land is already being searched by individuals or the local club. Not always wise to become a permission poacher as you will not make friends that way. Better to find new land that has not had the best taken from it by others.

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Re: Approaching farmers tomorrow

Post by lothbrok » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:45 pm

geoman wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:38 pm
Just have a care in case the land is already being searched by individuals or the local club. Not always wise to become a permission poacher as you will not make friends that way. Better to find new land that has not had the best taken from it by others.
Wouldn't want to poach anyones permission. Another thing I didn't think about. Presumably the farmer would tell me if he has already given permission to a club or individual ?
On the individual permission, what is the etiquette on that. If the farmer also gives me permission do I chat with the other guy/girl and come to an arrangement....or just leave it and find another permission?
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Re: Approaching farmers tomorrow

Post by alfaowner » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:20 pm

Welcome to the forum and world of detecting ::g

What you will find is that as you go door knocking you will be told a few things ...

1 / we don't own the land we are tenants
2/ we have someone already
3/ we have someone already ( but we don't see him / her ) very common ,A lot of detectorists are extremely selfish and will ringence and brag about loads of land and farms but don't go over ,farmers are loyal so will say we have someone ,
4/ we have banned detectorists as there actions ( common one this , detectorists not informing of finds , leaving holes , bringing people without permission , they didn't turn up.
5/been nighthawked
6/ maybe , come back after harvest time ( normally a brush of )
7/ we have a club / rallie ( what you will find with this one is that some detectorists have a little cartel that will do there " scans " ( which means , detect it to death ) then offer it to the rest of the club

As you can see a lot of the above reasons for not giving permission is because the actions of detectorists , Having said that there's plenty of land and some very hounest detectorists , you will get land through hard work and hounesty , Be polite , sincere and respectful , I wouldn't go in feet First with the contract , I have one very good permission , gained from a letter and it's a trust agreement , I inform my farmer of all my finds. I Ring before going over , always fill holes , only detect when and when I'm allowed ,

Good luck with everything , ::g

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Re: Approaching farmers tomorrow

Post by lothbrok » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:29 pm

alfaowner wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:20 pm
Welcome to the forum and world of detecting ::g

What you will find is that as you go door knocking you will be told a few things ...

1 / we don't own the land we are tenants
2/ we have someone already
3/ we have someone already ( but we don't see him / her ) very common ,A lot of detectorists are extremely selfish and will ringence and brag about loads of land and farms but don't go over ,farmers are loyal so will say we have someone ,
4/ we have banned detectorists as there actions ( common one this , detectorists not informing of finds , leaving holes , bringing people without permission , they didn't turn up.
5/been nighthawked
6/ maybe , come back after harvest time ( normally a brush of )
7/ we have a club / rallie ( what you will find with this one is that some detectorists have a little cartel that will do there " scans " ( which means , detect it to death ) then offer it to the rest of the club

As you can see a lot of the above reasons for not giving permission is because the actions of detectorists , Having said that there's plenty of land and some very hounest detectorists , you will get land through hard work and hounesty , Be polite , sincere and respectful , I wouldn't go in feet First with the contract , I have one very good permission , gained from a letter and it's a trust agreement , I inform my farmer of all my finds. I Ring before going over , always fill holes , only detect when and when I'm allowed ,

Good luck with everything , ::g
Thanks for the welcome and advice :)
some very helpful points. I really appreciate your input ::g such a shame the a few bad actions give everyone a bad reputation :(
I think I will leave the contract at home can always ask if they would like a contract if and when I get the permission
thanks again ;)
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Re: Approaching farmers tomorrow

Post by alfaowner » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:35 pm

lothbrok wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:29 pm
alfaowner wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:20 pm
Welcome to the forum and world of detecting ::g

What you will find is that as you go door knocking you will be told a few things ...

1 / we don't own the land we are tenants
2/ we have someone already
3/ we have someone already ( but we don't see him / her ) very common ,A lot of detectorists are extremely selfish and will ringence and brag about loads of land and farms but don't go over ,farmers are loyal so will say we have someone ,
4/ we have banned detectorists as there actions ( common one this , detectorists not informing of finds , leaving holes , bringing people without permission , they didn't turn up.
5/been nighthawked
6/ maybe , come back after harvest time ( normally a brush of )
7/ we have a club / rallie ( what you will find with this one is that some detectorists have a little cartel that will do there " scans " ( which means , detect it to death ) then offer it to the rest of the club

As you can see a lot of the above reasons for not giving permission is because the actions of detectorists , Having said that there's plenty of land and some very hounest detectorists , you will get land through hard work and hounesty , Be polite , sincere and respectful , I wouldn't go in feet First with the contract , I have one very good permission , gained from a letter and it's a trust agreement , I inform my farmer of all my finds. I Ring before going over , always fill holes , only detect when and when I'm allowed ,

Good luck with everything , ::g
Thanks for the welcome and advice :)
some very helpful points. I really appreciate your input ::g such a shame the a few bad actions give everyone a bad reputation :(
I think I will leave the contract at home can always ask if they would like a contract if and when I get the permission
thanks again ;)

Your welcome , The most important thing is to get out there and enjoy this fantastic hobby ::g

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Re: Approaching farmers tomorrow

Post by Easylife » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:54 pm

All great advice, an approach I had planned to do but did not. But then I thought, these farmers are business people and should respect a very direct approach straight to the point. If you don't ask, you don't get! So I phoned the farmer and after telling him my name and area where I live, I just said "I want to metal detect on your land.", he said "You will be ok for now, but not in summer when the pasture is too dry. Just drop your name and contact details through our letterbox in case anyone reports you to us." That was it, go wherever I like, he is not even interested in any finds. I really was not expecting such an easy going laid back farmer, not complaining though. :D
Shame that they are not all like that.
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Re: Approaching farmers tomorrow

Post by Me and my boy » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:59 pm

You've got the right approach. If I owned land I'lld let you go. Don't put too much thought into it, just go and see them and say what comes out,Normally garbage in my case! 😀😀
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Re: Approaching farmers tomorrow

Post by Sunray » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:04 pm

Easylife wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:54 pm
All great advice, an approach I had planned to do but did not. But then I thought, these farmers are business people and should respect a very direct approach straight to the point. If you don't ask, you don't get! So I phoned the farmer and after telling him my name and area where I live, I just said "I want to metal detect on your land.", he said "You will be ok for now, but not in summer when the pasture is too dry. Just drop your name and contact details through our letterbox in case anyone reports you to us." That was it, go wherever I like, he is not even interested in any finds. I really was not expecting such an easy going laid back farmer, not complaining though. :D
Shame that they are not all like that.
A good thread mate ...

Some helpful tips give by other members [Thanks all] ...

Congrats - Well done on your permission ...

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Re: Approaching farmers tomorrow

Post by lothbrok » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:45 pm

Me and my boy wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:59 pm
You've got the right approach. If I owned land I'lld let you go. Don't put too much thought into it, just go and see them and say what comes out,Normally garbage in my case! 😀😀
Easylife wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:54 pm
All great advice, an approach I had planned to do but did not. But then I thought, these farmers are business people and should respect a very direct approach straight to the point. If you don't ask, you don't get! So I phoned the farmer and after telling him my name and area where I live, I just said "I want to metal detect on your land.", he said "You will be ok for now, but not in summer when the pasture is too dry. Just drop your name and contact details through our letterbox in case anyone reports you to us." That was it, go wherever I like, he is not even interested in any finds. I really was not expecting such an easy going laid back farmer, not complaining though. :D
Shame that they are not all like that.
Well I Knocked on two doors today and got flat out NO on both occasions "No way we have had this before...next thing we have loads of people turning up ion our land"
So I said thats fair enough, apologised for the actions of these people and thanked them for their time. I was a bit deflated after that and started thinking this is going to bloody hard to get a permission :(
Came home put a brew on and decided to telephone another farmer near to me and got another "no way" :(

I had one more on my list for today so decided to give that a try. The guy answered his mobile and I could tell was very busy. Decided to get straight to the point and asked if he would consider giving me permission to Detect on his land :-SS
He then asked what land I wanted to use and what area did I come from. I wasn't sure what land he owned so asked for anything he would be prepared to let me use as I wasn't sure of the exact fields he owned ...He said he wasn't against the idea in principal :D and to email him and he will look at it when he gets in and get back to me. :)
so fingers crossed I will have a permission shortly ::g
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Re: Approaching farmers tomorrow

Post by Steve_T » Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:21 pm

Well done and welcome,

When you see farmer explain you will be another pair of trusted eyes on his land, watching out for any issues with fencing or livestock and machinery, and anyone who might not look like they should be there.

I once found a piece of machinery that would have been expensive to replace, mention you will be on the lookout for any bits lost, and remove any sharp stuff that could cause punctures and cause him downtime.

always give a positive outlook for him.

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Re: Approaching farmers tomorrow

Post by lothbrok » Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:46 pm

Steve_T wrote:
Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:21 pm
Well done and welcome,

When you see farmer explain you will be another pair of trusted eyes on his land, watching out for any issues with fencing or livestock and machinery, and anyone who might not look like they should be there.

I once found a piece of machinery that would have been expensive to replace, mention you will be on the lookout for any bits lost, and remove any sharp stuff that could cause punctures and cause him downtime.

always give a positive outlook for him.

Regards Steve
Thanks Steve much appreciated :)
They are some really good points I can mention to him. Especially the lost machinery parts and an extra pair of eyes for anything untoward. I'm just hoping this all happens and he doesn't have second thoughts...he really didn't seemed bothered like the other farmers did so should be ok :)
seemed like a very nice guy especially as I caught him at a bad time.

Regards
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Re: Approaching farmers tomorrow

Post by oldhamlad » Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:11 pm

lothbrok wrote:
Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:45 pm
Me and my boy wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:59 pm
You've got the right approach. If I owned land I'lld let you go. Don't put too much thought into it, just go and see them and say what comes out,Normally garbage in my case! 😀😀
Easylife wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:54 pm
All great advice, an approach I had planned to do but did not. But then I thought, these farmers are business people and should respect a very direct approach straight to the point. If you don't ask, you don't get! So I phoned the farmer and after telling him my name and area where I live, I just said "I want to metal detect on your land.", he said "You will be ok for now, but not in summer when the pasture is too dry. Just drop your name and contact details through our letterbox in case anyone reports you to us." That was it, go wherever I like, he is not even interested in any finds. I really was not expecting such an easy going laid back farmer, not complaining though. :D
Shame that they are not all like that.
Well I Knocked on two doors today and got flat out NO on both occasions "No way we have had this before...next thing we have loads of people turning up ion our land"
So I said thats fair enough, apologised for the actions of these people and thanked them for their time. I was a bit deflated after that and started thinking this is going to bloody hard to get a permission :(
Came home put a brew on and decided to telephone another farmer near to me and got another "no way" :(

I had one more on my list for today so decided to give that a try. The guy answered his mobile and I could tell was very busy. Decided to get straight to the point and asked if he would consider giving me permission to Detect on his land :-SS
He then asked what land I wanted to use and what area did I come from. I wasn't sure what land he owned so asked for anything he would be prepared to let me use as I wasn't sure of the exact fields he owned ...He said he wasn't against the idea in principal :D and to email him and he will look at it when he gets in and get back to me. :)
so fingers crossed I will have a permission shortly ::g
great work mate! proud of you for having some guts and getting stuck in more will follow for sure remember if you find a metal detecting buddy sharing land is caring!

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Re: Approaching farmers tomorrow

Post by oldartefact » Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:20 pm

My advice is to dive in feet first ... if you delay getting your detector until you have a permission, then after a few knock backs you wouldn't be blamed for giving up before you've started ... !!! Take the plunge and worry about the permissions after!!!
Its a bit like not taking up dancing lessons until you have found a girl to dance with!!! That would be plain and simple daft!
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Re: Approaching farmers tomorrow

Post by oldartefact » Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:25 pm

Easylife wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:54 pm
All great advice, an approach I had planned to do but did not. But then I thought, these farmers are business people and should respect a very direct approach straight to the point. If you don't ask, you don't get! So I phoned the farmer and after telling him my name and area where I live, I just said "I want to metal detect on your land.", he said "You will be ok for now, but not in summer when the pasture is too dry. Just drop your name and contact details through our letterbox in case anyone reports you to us." That was it, go wherever I like, he is not even interested in any finds. I really was not expecting such an easy going laid back farmer, not complaining though. :D
Shame that they are not all like that.
Very well done indeed ... that said it is very good that not all farmers have an open door policy!! Think of the consequences if they did!
PS .. A big thumbs up to the few who have an open door approach ,,, and total respect to those farmers that exact a very high level of scrutiny before letting strangers within a half mile of their land.
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Re: Approaching farmers tomorrow

Post by Easylife » Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:15 am

Not that I have much experience of asking for permissions really, but it seems that there is no right or wrong way to ask. Just go for it whichever way you think may be the best approach. What results in a "yes" from one farmer may not be the right approach for another, pot luck but you can maybe improve your chances if you give them a reason to like you at all. I mean just get chatting about things in general first, maybe about some farming related matter in which they are interested in. Yeah, they will be looking at you thinking where is this going, then you bring up the main reason why you are there. They will smile, admire your coy tactic and you have got a foot in the door. This approach should work more than not. Just time it right, do not worry about being a bit cheeky, in this world if you do not ask you do not get, so nothing to lose. ::g
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Re: Approaching farmers tomorrow

Post by oldartefact » Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:53 pm

Easylife wrote:
Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:15 am
Not that I have much experience of asking for permissions really, but it seems that there is no right or wrong way to ask. Just go for it whichever way you think may be the best approach. What results in a "yes" from one farmer may not be the right approach for another, pot luck but you can maybe improve your chances if you give them a reason to like you at all. I mean just get chatting about things in general first, maybe about some farming related matter in which they are interested in. Yeah, they will be looking at you thinking where is this going, then you bring up the main reason why you are there. They will smile, admire your coy tactic and you have got a foot in the door. This approach should work more than not. Just time it right, do not worry about being a bit cheeky, in this world if you do not ask you do not get, so nothing to lose. ::g
The "trick" is to put the moral imperative on the land owner to either ask you to detect his land, or create circumstances so that the landowner cant say no. its a bit like asking a fantastic looking girl out ... odds are she'll kick you in the proverbials ... hence an alternative strategy is required. :) :) :)
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Re: Approaching farmers tomorrow

Post by dreadnought » Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:54 pm

ive just got my first permission, and it was just a case of fronting up and asking. the farmer was very glad that i was local,(same village) and seemed quite chuffed that i would take any scrap out of the ground, hes a pasture/ livestock farmer so any nasties that can harm cattle or bailing machines is better off gone. all about honesty and being genuine. one more tip that may help is find out where your local farmers go for their pint. its easier to talk over a drink sometimes. just waiting for my racer to arrive then its a summer of swinging for me.
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Re: Approaching farmers tomorrow

Post by Polaris100 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:08 am

"seemed quite chuffed that i would take any scrap out of the ground, hes a pasture/ livestock farmer so any nasties that can harm cattle or bailing machines is better off gone. "

Excellent point to make.

Well done and good luck!

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Re: Approaching farmers tomorrow

Post by geoman » Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:22 am

Great that you have had success. Local farmer as well to boot so no miles and miles of travelling.

One tip as a new starter is that digging pasture in the summer is not often a wise move as most of the sods will die back and leave dead patches not very visually attractive for the farmer to see. Also any animals in the field will pull up the sods before thay have had chance to regrow and so leave holes. I doubt your farmer will take kindly to holes and dead grass patches all over his field.

I have just gained access to a couple of paddocks next to the local big house, but i will not be going on them until the winter.

Good luck.

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Re: Approaching farmers tomorrow

Post by Polaris100 » Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:08 am

There's been some great information and tips here. Thanks everyone!
My experience:
I live in the North West of England and fancied taking up detecting in the 1980's when I returned from working overseas but as a contractor always moving about I never got around to it. Upon retirement a couple of years ago I decided that now was the time. I bought a Fisher F44 as research seemed to indicate this was the best machine for a beginner and went to find some permissions. I live in an urban area and spent some time touring only to find that within a 10 mile radius it was almost impossible to get a permission for the reasons given by alfaowner. Some people had been detecting on these areas for almost 40 years. I got quite despondent.
So, having joined two clubs in Kendal and Lancaster I started going on rallies. Through these clubs I was invited on charity rallies in Lancashire and Cheshire and consequently attended approximately 12 rallies over two years. Then I got lucky. At a meeting of the Kendal club someone asked me why I was only attending rallies. I told him that I had approached several farmers and had just given up approaching them. He said "I've got a couple of permissions about twenty miles from where you live. Would you be interested in travelling so far as I'm sure the farmers would allow you on?"
I jumped at this opportunity. He then got us another two permissions.
On the way to meet him one morning I drove past a farm and saw the farmer hosing down some plant. I stopped and asked him if my colleague and I would be allowed to detect on his land. At first he seemed hesitant but as we spoke he seemed to mellow a little. Then he agreed but told me that the land had been detected before and as it contained the site of a roman road it had been detected by nighthawks who had made a mess of his land. I promised that my colleague and I would not do that, that we were insured etc.. So far we have found nothing, I think it has been detected to death but here's the best bit, today he asked me if I could find a piece of kit he had lost in his silo shed. The silo was about four metres deep. I went over it with my new Fisher F75 and after covering about a third of the silo I received a really positive signal. I said that due to my inexperience and lack of knowledge with my machine all I could tell him was that there was a large chunk of ferrous beneath us. He dug down a few feet with a fork and then gave up, saying that he would look out for the item over the winter as the silo was used. Meanwhile he will ask his neighbours and a brother who farms nearby if we may be allowed to detect on their farms.
So, Iothbrok, good luck! Hopefully this permission will be the first of many.

forthebeep
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Re: Approaching farmers tomorrow

Post by forthebeep » Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:30 pm

Some great and very helpful tips and advice on here. I've not yet managed to ask a farmer face to face yet. There are some fields that I pass every morning and evening to and from work that I'd love to get on, but can never see anyone around.

I've tried sending out letters to local farms (about 25) but have only had one response which was a NO because a previous detectorist didn't respect his wishes which is really sad and not fair on honest, trustworthy and genuine detectorists.

The only two permissions I have are on two fields next to where I live. I have 8 acres of my own land to detect but its not ideal. When we moved in and went to the local pub for the first time, the local farmer approached us as we were leaving and asked us if we wanted any milk, to which we agreed. After a month or so, I thought why don't I do the same? So I went to knock on his door before we went away to pay him for the milk and, slipped him a bit of extra cash (keep the cahnge of about £4) and asked him if I could go on his land to detect. His response was "fine, just if you dig any holes, stamp it back in". Had a few finds of there so far which is great.

My other permission is my father-in-law's land so that was easy! Haven't tried the phone call approach yet so might give that a go. If you'd like a copy of my permissions request letter then let me know and I can send it on to you.

Good luck

Adam.

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