Another First For Us! One WE Might Refuse Lol

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Re: Another First For Us! One WE Might Refuse Lol

Post by Fisher1266X » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:33 pm

oldartefact wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:29 pm

The thing about snail trailing and more structured approaches to detecting is that an equal number of targets will be missed, with both methods ... the snail trail pic implies that the missed targets would have been found using a structured search pattern... but the trurth is that a pic showing a structured search, would have just as many missed targets.
Structured tecting ensures that all areas of the field are given a fair crack of the whip ... but the elusive gold ring is just as likly to be missed using structured tecting, than had one taken the snail trailing approach ...
Structured approaches only win out when one goes at a snail pace... thus eliminating the sine wave effect, but where is the fun in detecting so slowly?
Improving find rates is all about gaining access to pristine undetected sites, and less so about going to battered fields ... so in my view the £5 might be better spent on fuel visiting local land owners with sites to die for.
You couldn't be more wrong, as you can see from the real snail-trail images you can clearly see that there are gaping holes that are clearly missed. These are marked with the yellow dots, please tell me if this isn't clear enough as I will produce much larger High Definition images that will clarify this much further.

Here are ACTUAL snail-trail images of of an actual detectorist using his GPS, the image on the left shows his trail and the one on the right shows full coverage:
Trax 3.jpg
As you can clearly see from the right-hand image, all the "holes/missed areas" are covered.

Of course, things can be missed due to a myriad of reasons that has been quoted time after time on the forum, but you're missing the point, I am showing that snail-trailing misses huge chunks of land as can be clearly seen above. Again, please let me know if there is something that I need to clarify for you.

I thank you, that is EXACTLY what our article, which can be read here: https://goo.gl/GSk5D3 states.... please read this article in its entirety before coming back with any further comment as all your answers are in this article... and more!

Again, you are wrong, improving finds rates is realised by covering ground 100% that HAS finds in-situ. It's pointless covering any ground either via snail-trailing or 100% coverage if there isn't anything there.
I've been on several pristine undetected sites and didn't encounter one signal.
Logic dictates that, if there's ONE hammered coin within coil range then the only sure way to find it is to cover that field 100%, unless you are very very very lucky, you will find that ONE hammered coin.

Unfortunately, "sites to die for" (a subjective view) are few and far between in Lancashire but are much more abundant elsewhere.
The £5 fee is a one-off and will not happen again unless there is a very good reason to do so.
As for "battered" fields, I don't think that will happen too soon.


OA But my point is that unless one detects at a snails pace (thus eliminating the Sine wave effect)... then snail trailing and tram lining will give the same results.

Please read our article regarding pace/speed ;)

OA In my view ... a battered field is a battered field ... that said its been battered for a reason,


..and that reason is?????.......


OA thus a fresh pair of legs attacking the field (after local clubs have given it the heave ho), plus three ploughings later, new goodies could well emerge, so maybe I shouldnt be so dismissive of battered fields.


Agreed, after three plough sessions there may be a good chance that more stuff will emerge.


OA But finding stuff on a battered field has very little to do with search pattern, if one is perambulating at a normal rate.


Again, please read the article as above.


OA Edit I am not sure what you mean about visiting the same permission 3 times and finding nothing

Exactly as it says on the tin!

OA proves anything about a structured vs snail trailing approach ... all it proves is that there is nothing in the field ... and the exact same result would have been expected using snail trailing.

I'm sorry but your grammar isn't in-sync, but you are correct, if there's nothing in the field, you won't find anything. Again, we have already stated this several times in several other posts that are obviously not being read properly otherwise all these questions have been answered previously, several times.


OA This is all about science ... and nothing to do with gut feel or personal experience ...

Hooray!!! You HAVE read some of our articles about metal-detecting!
WE only go on FACT and nothing else.



OA the fact is that we all miss stuff with every swing ...

That is absurd, now you're saying that all the forum members miss stuff on every swing?? That is so inaccurate and derogatory! That is NOT a FACT!

OA no matter how we search the field... the only way to go is overlapping swings using a tramline approach...


Correct, but then you introduce a contradiction....


OA but who wants to do that,


OA and besides it would simply take you twice as long, on an empty field, to prove that it was empty.

Wrong on all counts..... you really do need to read our article on how long it takes to search a field.
How did you come to the conclusion "TWICE AS LONG"?? at least I have produced a formula that quantifies the timings.

One of our members (John Collins) has given me permission to quote him on his trial of our "Time Estimation" article... he fully endorses it and confirms that it is indeed extremely accurate.
Thank you Mr Collins

Also, how do you know the field is EMPTY without searching every inch of it!?? After all that ONE hammered coin may be in the very last square foot of your field!

Once you have discovered your field is empty, you can make a decision whether or not to revisit that field, simples.

In fact, if anyone has any questions on any aspect of our article, I will be more than pleased to answer them in full.

Again I must stress that those that wish to search a field fully and those that want to search randomly ..... there is no wrong method as long as you enjoy it.
What you have got to understand that snail-trailing will miss lots of targets even if they are on the surface! Believe you me.... we have found staters, Republican denarii and Roman brooches on the surface. Our outing last week shows a complete Roman fibula that was found on the surface!!!!!

Targets that are on their edge, mineralised soil etc etc etc etc come under another topic that is totally different to the 100% coverage v snail-trail methodology.

Please do not confuse 0% - 100% coverage with all the idiosyncrasies of missed targets due to ambient conditions.
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Re: Another First For Us! One WE Might Refuse Lol

Post by john Colin » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:44 pm

oldartefact wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:00 pm
john Colin wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:47 pm
I think I may be missing something, surly a structured approach ensures you do not go over the same area twice, on a return visit you know where you left off, so of course you know where to pick it up. Wondering around over a few visits must result in going over the same area at times, or missing the same area. Most of my summer searching is on pasture, when the time comes I know exactly where to start.
tramlining only wins out if you remove the sine wave effect ... forward motion + lateral motion means that small pockets of land are missed with every swing ... thats the same for snail trailing as it is for tramlining. To reduce or eliminate the sine wave effect one has to travel forward very slowly so that swings overlap, and in this scenario tramlining wins out over snail trailing .... however this assumes that the detectorist has sufficient time and self-control to cover the whole field at a very slow pace. A single visit to a field, walking at normal detecting pace ... whether snail trailing or tram lining will in the long run yield the same results, there is nothing magical or mystical about tramlines.
Edit ... tramlining is very good for finding areas of activity within a field, that warrant special attention, but to be clear tramlining is not an elixia for finding the elusive gold ring, that the snail trailers have previously missed.
I do know though, when I line out, I have no intention of covering this area again so my forward motion is slow, overlapping every sweep unhurriedly as signals on pasture can be misleading and deep. When on a large area of ploughed, I float about, I am just out for an hour or two and who knows what may come up or can I locate a iron infested area, if this happens the mason lines come out.

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Re: Another First For Us! One WE Might Refuse Lol

Post by oldartefact » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:02 pm

john Colin wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:44 pm
oldartefact wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:00 pm
john Colin wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:47 pm
I think I may be missing something, surly a structured approach ensures you do not go over the same area twice, on a return visit you know where you left off, so of course you know where to pick it up. Wondering around over a few visits must result in going over the same area at times, or missing the same area. Most of my summer searching is on pasture, when the time comes I know exactly where to start.
tramlining only wins out if you remove the sine wave effect ... forward motion + lateral motion means that small pockets of land are missed with every swing ... thats the same for snail trailing as it is for tramlining. To reduce or eliminate the sine wave effect one has to travel forward very slowly so that swings overlap, and in this scenario tramlining wins out over snail trailing .... however this assumes that the detectorist has sufficient time and self-control to cover the whole field at a very slow pace. A single visit to a field, walking at normal detecting pace ... whether snail trailing or tram lining will in the long run yield the same results, there is nothing magical or mystical about tramlines.
Edit ... tramlining is very good for finding areas of activity within a field, that warrant special attention, but to be clear tramlining is not an elixia for finding the elusive gold ring, that the snail trailers have previously missed.
I do know though, when I line out, I have no intention of covering this area again so my forward motion is slow, overlapping every sweep unhurriedly as signals on pasture can be misleading and deep. When on a large area of ploughed, I float about, I am just out for an hour or two and who knows what may come up or can I locate a iron infested area, if this happens the mason lines come out.
And that my friend, is probably the most informative post we have had in along time ... you are exactly right ... totally 1000% correct ... all 77 words.
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Re: Another First For Us! One WE Might Refuse Lol

Post by busterhamer » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:20 pm

oldartefact wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:02 pm
john Colin wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:44 pm
oldartefact wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:00 pm

tramlining only wins out if you remove the sine wave effect ... forward motion + lateral motion means that small pockets of land are missed with every swing ... thats the same for snail trailing as it is for tramlining. To reduce or eliminate the sine wave effect one has to travel forward very slowly so that swings overlap, and in this scenario tramlining wins out over snail trailing .... however this assumes that the detectorist has sufficient time and self-control to cover the whole field at a very slow pace. A single visit to a field, walking at normal detecting pace ... whether snail trailing or tram lining will in the long run yield the same results, there is nothing magical or mystical about tramlines.
Edit ... tramlining is very good for finding areas of activity within a field, that warrant special attention, but to be clear tramlining is not an elixia for finding the elusive gold ring, that the snail trailers have previously missed.
I do know though, when I line out, I have no intention of covering this area again so my forward motion is slow, overlapping every sweep unhurriedly as signals on pasture can be misleading and deep. When on a large area of ploughed, I float about, I am just out for an hour or two and who knows what may come up or can I locate a iron infested area, if this happens t
he mason lines come out.
And that my friend, is probably the most informative post we have had in along time ... you are exactly right ... totally 1000% correct ... all 77 words.
At last OA has finally agreed with something... OooO =))
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Re: Another First For Us! One WE Might Refuse Lol

Post by Fisher1266X » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:25 pm

oldartefact wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:02 pm

I do know though, when I line out, I have no intention of covering this area again so my forward motion is slow, overlapping every sweep unhurriedly as signals on pasture can be misleading and deep. When on a large area of ploughed, I float about, I am just out for an hour or two and who knows what may come up or can I locate a iron infested area, if this happens the mason lines come out.
And that my friend, is probably the most informative post we have had in along time ... you are exactly right ... totally 1000% correct ... all 77 words.
[/quote]

..... Thanks OA for this endorsement as John quotes our article exactly with regards to forward motion, that is so kind of you.
After all, isn't that what you repeatedly pointed out .... snails-pace?
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Re: Another First For Us! One WE Might Refuse Lol

Post by oldartefact » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:37 pm

Fisher1266X wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:25 pm
oldartefact wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:02 pm

I do know though, when I line out, I have no intention of covering this area again so my forward motion is slow, overlapping every sweep unhurriedly as signals on pasture can be misleading and deep. When on a large area of ploughed, I float about, I am just out for an hour or two and who knows what may come up or can I locate a iron infested area, if this happens the mason lines come out.
And that my friend, is probably the most informative post we have had in along time ... you are exactly right ... totally 1000% correct ... all 77 words.
..... Thanks OA for this endorsement as John quotes our article exactly with regards to forward motion, that is so kind of you.
After all, isn't that what you repeatedly pointed out .... snails-pace?
[/quote]
The opearative words being "out for an hour or two" ... just as a single visit to a battered field ... it doesnt matter what pattern you detect in ... the snails guys will have done 95% of the field via their battering approach .. and at best a single visit using tramlines ... with sine wave effect kicking in will hardly touch the field. Thats just how it is ...
I was out on an NCMD dig today ... it was 50 acres or so ... it really didnt matter how the field was detected... gridding, tram lines, zig-zag or otherwise ... we were all travelling at very much the same pace every which way and loose ... there were 30 of us. Put a handful of detectorists on the same field for one day doing the tram lines and the results would have been commensurate with the zig-zaggers. if this were not the case I think that everyone would have twigged on to following the tramlines before now. i am not trying to be clever... just stating what we already know.
Tramlining is great when you have all the time in the world and are prepared to overlap your swings... but a single visit to a previously battered field, using tramlines, isnt going to increase your chances ... one will still miss as much ground as the zig-zaggers.
Hope that explains where I am coming from ... 30 zig-zaggers vs 3 tram-liners ... my money has got to be on the the zig-zaggers. Thats the statistician in me.
But lets face it even if the field has been battered great finds are still possible, and everything is crossed here in anticipation of your finding more stunning and inspiring finds. After today I need some inspiration. l;. l;. l;. OooO
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Re: Another First For Us! One WE Might Refuse Lol

Post by busterhamer » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:52 pm

With odds of 10-1 of course they're going to find more... and don't worry we don't think your trying to be clever. ::g x;
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Re: Another First For Us! One WE Might Refuse Lol

Post by oldartefact » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:14 pm

busterhamer wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:52 pm
With odds of 10-1 of course they're going to find more... and don't worry we don't think your trying to be clever. ::g x;
The point I am making is that a single visit to a battered field may very well produce some lovely goodies, but it wont be down to the search pattern ... it will be due to other factors, the reason being that the odds of finding significant item by the coach load of zig-zaggers is significantly higher than a smaller group using tramlines. If the tramliners find stuff on a battered field its simply because they have been luckier than the zig-zaggers and not because they have covered more ground, which they blatantly would not have.
Paul, regarding your images of a partially detected vs fully detected field, one thing for sure is that the partially detected field has significantly fewer detecting hours than the fully detected field. it is possible to detect a field fully using either zig-zag or tramlining. Obviously tramlining is more efficient. As you have previously shown it takes many many hours to detect a field fully, more hours than can possibly be applied in a single visit. So I put forward the idea that if a single visit is on the cards, it doesn't matter what pattern one detects in ... its all down to chance. But if the object it to detect every inch of a field, then slow down forward motion, and be sure to follow the tramlines, to do the job as effectively and efficiently as possible.
I dont think our thinking is a million miles apart, only how we view zig-zag vs tramline, as an approach for making a single day assessment of a field. in my book both are equally likely to come up with the goodies, though perhaps going free-style allows one to concentrate on features and areas within a field, that the tramlining approach wouldnt allow one sufficient time to give proper justice to.
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Re: Another First For Us! One WE Might Refuse Lol

Post by Allectus » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:16 pm

So what's the upshot of all this?

Is it best to zig-zag or zag-zig(with a snail or two thrown in for good measure) or go with the straight 'zebra'? :))

Perhaps a mixture of all three would be best if the atmospheric conditions are just right?

Please advise

Newbie

Essex. :))
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Re: Another First For Us! One WE Might Refuse Lol

Post by oldartefact » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:29 pm

Upshot is that if you hit a battered field ... just go for it, and hope for the best... OooO OooO
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Re: Another First For Us! One WE Might Refuse Lol

Post by Allectus » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:32 pm

Also, what machines are best for the above search methods & is there one that'll suffice for all three?

The last thing I want is to be caught out 'snailing' only, when I really should be zigging/zagging or even zebra-ing! :))


Cheers ::g
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Re: Another First For Us! One WE Might Refuse Lol

Post by littleboot » Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:16 pm

Sometimes I wander lonely as a cloud...Sometimes I do a slow march up and down in a disciplined way.
Depends on my mood to be honest. It also depends on the permission....and specifically if its one I can pootle around on whenever I want, or one where I have to travel and/or only get access to for a small window of time.
If its the former (most of my permissions are) I wander about. I have a general idea where I have covered before without being anal about it and I have a general notion about where I might concentrate. On some visits that comes down to something as simple as which areas are sheltered from the wind or in the shade. You see I will always be able to pop back and I want my detecting to be PLEASANT and not a route march....slow or otherwise.
If its the latter I follow the crop marks or plough lines roughly without being fetishist about it.
The success of these two strategies depends entirely upon the following:
If the field has been recently ploughed.
If the conditions are favorable.
If what is there to be found is a good match for the technology I am using.
If there IS anything there to be found.

That's it really. No matter how I cover the field someone else will be able to go over it with a different frequency/ set up/ machine and find stuff I never would have picked up.
So I don't sweat it. If its my day its my day. And I will have enjoyed it. I find marching religiously up and down a big old field on my Jack Jones a singularly joyless experience and usually pack up and go home. And I am guaranteed not to find a damn thing if I do that.
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Re: Another First For Us! One WE Might Refuse Lol

Post by Arch Stanton » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:43 am

Think Littleboot sums it up nicely - Do it whichever way you like, however the feeling takes you. No-ones telling you, you have to do it certain way (unless it's your job and your Boss IS telling you to do it a certain way!) just enjoy it and please yourselves. Each to their own. Let's not argue on here, we're all doing this just because we enjoy it surely?! ::g Happy hunting all - Keep it cheery!
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Re: Another First For Us! One WE Might Refuse Lol

Post by Fisher1266X » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:25 am

First of all, thank you for all your replies.

Secondly, this post simply reflected that we were about to pay for a dig for the very first time and would it be worth it after the landowner had warned us several times that it had been done by "coachloads" of detectorists and has been battered to death, ........his words.
The results of this are in another post.

Thirdly, this post appears to have been hijacked and skewed by one of our members to look as though the main thread was all about search methodology, a completely different subject.

Lastly, we accept that everyone has their own style and slant on detecting which we have acknowledged several times and stated this in our articles. Please them and you will see this.

Two members asked what "snail-trailing" was so I felt obliged to answer.
We even snail-trailed a little ourselves yesterday for reasons that will become apparent in the post relating to this farm. Again, that is acknowledgement that snail-trailing has its place in detecting.
Allectus wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:16 pm
So what's the upshot of all this?

Is it best to zig-zag or zag-zig(with a snail or two thrown in for good measure) or go with the straight 'zebra'? Perhaps a mixture of all three would be best if the atmospheric conditions are just right?
Please advise
Newbie
Essex.
Whichever method you decide will reflect your results.
Allectus wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:32 pm
Also, what machines are best for the above search methods & is there one that'll suffice for all three?
The last thing I want is to be caught out 'snailing' only, when I really should be zigging/zagging or even zebra-ing!
Cheers
That is relatively easy to answer; any half-decent machine.

I've never endorsed any of your methods you mention above, however, if you look at the four images (real snail-trails and real detectorist tracking) you should be able to see that there are huge areas of land missed. I've marked these areas with bright yellow dots for visual ease.
The example clearly shows that the detectorist only covered 3% of those fields yet his words were "there's nothing here!".
Please tell me that there's no hammered coins in the other 97% of those fields?
littleboot wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:16 pm
Sometimes I wander lonely as a cloud...Sometimes I do a slow march up and down in a disciplined way.
Depends on my mood to be honest. It also depends on the permission....and specifically if its one I can pootle around on whenever I want, or one where I have to travel and/or only get access to for a small window of time.
If its the former (most of my permissions are) I wander about. I have a general idea where I have covered before without being anal about it and I have a general notion about where I might concentrate. On some visits that comes down to something as simple as which areas are sheltered from the wind or in the shade. You see I will always be able to pop back and I want my detecting to be PLEASANT and not a route march....slow or otherwise.
If its the latter I follow the crop marks or plough lines roughly without being fetishist about it.
The success of these two strategies depends entirely upon the following:
If the field has been recently ploughed.
If the conditions are favorable.
If what is there to be found is a good match for the technology I am using.
If there IS anything there to be found.

That's it really. No matter how I cover the field someone else will be able to go over it with a different frequency/ set up/ machine and find stuff I never would have picked up.
So I don't sweat it. If its my day its my day. And I will have enjoyed it. I find marching religiously up and down a big old field on my Jack Jones a singularly joyless experience and usually pack up and go home. And I am guaranteed not to find a damn thing if I do that.
Unfortunately Jan, we live too far away from our sites to reflect or recite Wordsworth.
I honestly wish we could "pop back", it would be so lovely! So envious that you have nice land so near to where you live.
Believe you me when I say that we have a total sense of happy satisfaction and enjoyment whilst detecting. As I have said before, detecting is only a minor interest for me, natural history is my main focus. In fact, one of the leading experts in the field of birds of prey has asked me to join their group which a great honour for me and unfortunately may replace detecting totally. ;))
I'm sorry Jan, but where do you get the "route march" thing from? In reading our "Time to search a field" article fully, http://www.recoveryofhistory.com/pa-new ... permission you will see that there is no reference to a fast or hurried speed. On the contrary, the recommended maximum speed is 0.3 mph, or in France; 0.54 kmp/h :D

We don't follow any crop marks as they are usually invisible at ground level, we do however follow the drilled crop lines as a reference but this is in our fore-mentioned article.

You are quite right when you say that others may find stuff you've missed but we don't "sweat it" as we had four people with Déus and CTX 3030 machines and go over one of our sites and nothing was found.
We would never "march" on a site as this would be far too fast ...unless it was below 0.3 mph.
The only religious aspect of our surveys would be to pray for good weather... oh and some nice finds =))

Love the end gambit ::g You'll never find anything sat at home ;)

Ironically I could find time to digest the posts from last night as we didn't find anything yesterday using ANY method!

Ooops! nearly forgot one last post that was removed due to spelling mistakes....

In 45 years of metal-detecting, Steve (one of our original team members) said that his eye's were opened and he felt refreshed at the new way of detecting. This comes from a guy that won every monthly contest at his club often claiming 1st, 2nd and 3rd places in both coins and artefacts each month. Again, his words....

Yep, agreed, something so simple as searching a field has been documented so the important question of time may be answered. It's also a great way to indicate how much time you need to spend on any size of field to cover it fully.
For instance, if you have a 2-acre field it will take you a minimum of 9 hours to cover it effectively. Or, if you only have a couple of hours spare, you will only cover 22% of that 2-acre field. Simples :D

I hope that has cleared up any misconceptions that may have arisen.
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Re: Another First For Us! One WE Might Refuse Lol

Post by littleboot » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:07 pm

Phew.
Those were just my observations of how I prefer to detect.

I am pleased for anyone who is successful with whatever method they choose to do their thing.
Above all, I am happy if they are happy doing it. So if that means they do the Zebra, Snail, Mad Cow, Crazy Horse or anything else it is all pretty much irrelevant as long is it is their cuppa and they get a kick out of it.

I appreciate that it always helps to find good stuff. But it needs to be borne in mind that some people will enjoy a wander around finding a few nice bits more than they would enjoy a day walking up and down a gridded area determined to find every target.

I am always interested to hear your take on things and how you have got on. However, I've been doing this for decades now....as have a lot of members here....and I have learned to find a middle way which I enjoy most and gives me success. I know plenty of theory....but as its a hobby and not a job I prefer to allow myself to decide if and when I put it into practice.

Sometimes, Paul, you overdo all this. It becomes overbearing. It doesn't bring out the best in your audience and I don't think it expresses the best in you.
That's my honest take. Please, I beg of you, don't deconstruct and critique it back at me to prove me 'wrong' or I'll lose the will to live. I probably AM wrong. Doesn't matter really does it?
Happy Hunting.
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Re: Another First For Us! One WE Might Refuse Lol

Post by Fisher1266X » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:48 pm

littleboot wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:07 pm
Phew.
Those were just my observations of how I prefer to detect.

I am pleased for anyone who is successful with whatever method they choose to do their thing.
Above all, I am happy if they are happy doing it. So if that means they do the Zebra, Snail, Mad Cow, Crazy Horse or anything else it is all pretty much irrelevant as long is it is their cuppa and they get a kick out of it.

I appreciate that it always helps to find good stuff. But it needs to be borne in mind that some people will enjoy a wander around finding a few nice bits more than they would enjoy a day walking up and down a gridded area determined to find every target.

I am always interested to hear your take on things and how you have got on. However, I've been doing this for decades now....as have a lot of members here....and I have learned to find a middle way which I enjoy most and gives me success. I know plenty of theory....but as its a hobby and not a job I prefer to allow myself to decide if and when I put it into practice.

Sometimes, Paul, you overdo all this. It becomes overbearing. It doesn't bring out the best in your audience and I don't think it expresses the best in you.
That's my honest take. Please, I beg of you, don't deconstruct and critique it back at me to prove me 'wrong' or I'll lose the will to live. I probably AM wrong. Doesn't matter really does it?
Happy Hunting.
Hi Jan,

I agree with what you say and as I've said time and time again, everyone to their own.
Because the whole post isn't read fully by some and it develops into a longer thread such as this one, pertinent points such as "everyone to their own" and "whatever makes you happy" are missed.

The articles I write are usually to answer the questions that members have asked repeatedly.
Quite a lot of members have lost their mojo and question their abilities and their machines performance. They get bogged down into depth issues, programs etc etc. which don't even affect our recovery rates as can be seen (except for this week haha!).
The main factor that influences our finds rates is coverage alone as we use the same standard programs and tools as most detectorists.

Because of the travel time and costs, we need to squeeze as much enjoyment and detecting time in as possible.

The enjoyment detecting creates for me personally has created off-shoots such as a very close involvement with full-scale archaeological digs, 3D photography and some great banter with other detectorists to name a few.

As I've also said before, detecting is a secondary interest with natural history being my main focus. Ironically, it is through natural history that I've had my best finds and greatest memories.
In a way I am so fortunate in having some great interests.

Happy Hunting Jan ;)
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Re: Another First For Us! One WE Might Refuse Lol

Post by oldartefact » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:11 pm

I beg to differ Paul ... the main factor that affects recovery rates is access to pristine undetected land, preferably with some historical context. Get such a plot and my advice is go for it, in what ever way you own Karma pleases... zig-zag .. up, down or sideways ... one will find stuff. Go to a battered site, and no matter what detecting strategy one dreams up, one is still in the lap of the gods. But very good luck to those who go there.
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Re: Another First For Us! One WE Might Refuse Lol

Post by Fisher1266X » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:06 pm

oldartefact wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:11 pm
I beg to differ Paul ... the main factor that affects recovery rates is access to pristine undetected land, preferably with some historical context. Get such a plot and my advice is go for it, in what ever way you own Karma pleases... zig-zag .. up, down or sideways ... one will find stuff. Go to a battered site, and no matter what detecting strategy one dreams up, one is still in the lap of the gods. But very good luck to those who go there.
John, the main factor alone is dead simple... is there anything there at all? Pristine or otherwise.
The second factor is also simple.... how are you going to find it and not miss much?

Your advice is warranted and I would agree, go for undetected land that has history there ::g

Again, you're correct, if there's lots of items in a field you will find "stuff" whatever way you search.
The point I'm making is this; finding the stuff that is missed in that same field.

You mention, karma, dreams and luck.... thats something we don't rely on as you will quickly become deflated.

Another factor that has an influence on detecting is time and money but I will come to that in another post later on.
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Re: Another First For Us! One WE Might Refuse Lol

Post by oldartefact » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:55 pm

Fisher1266X wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:06 pm
oldartefact wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:11 pm
I beg to differ Paul ... the main factor that affects recovery rates is access to pristine undetected land, preferably with some historical context. Get such a plot and my advice is go for it, in what ever way you own Karma pleases... zig-zag .. up, down or sideways ... one will find stuff. Go to a battered site, and no matter what detecting strategy one dreams up, one is still in the lap of the gods. But very good luck to those who go there.
John, the main factor alone is dead simple... is there anything there at all? Pristine or otherwise.
The second factor is also simple.... how are you going to find it and not miss much?

Your advice is warranted and I would agree, go for undetected land that has history there ::g

Again, you're correct, if there's lots of items in a field you will find "stuff" whatever way you search.
The point I'm making is this; finding the stuff that is missed in that same field.

You mention, karma, dreams and luck.... thats something we don't rely on as you will quickly become deflated.

Another factor that has an influence on detecting is time and money but I will come to that in another post later on.
Surely the main factor has to be access to the land, since without access it doesnt matter whether there is anything there or not.
We are all missing stuff ... and we are all finding stuff ... that is how it goes. A 6 hour visit to a 20 acre field ... it simply doesnt matter how you approach the search pattern... My personal preference would be to head for the parts of the field that look interesting. If I was in a small group I would encourage carving the field up and swapping areas... but I would not dictate to my fellows that they should use tramlines or any other search pattern, as it would have no real benefit, and arguably destroy the feeling of freedom, and ultimately their enjoyment.

Looking forward to hearing your views on time and money, but it is a potentially explosive subject. Good luck.
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Re: Another First For Us! One WE Might Refuse Lol

Post by Fisher1266X » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:32 pm

I am completely honoured and overwhelmed that this post has generated such an interest in search techniques, both new and old. It has even spread to other posts too :D

It's heart warming to see that everyone has such a myriad of methods to accomplish their enjoyment of the hobby. ::g

The enjoyment I personally enjoy from the whole spectrum of metal-detecting is beyond the realms of description and cannot be topped. rl;

These are just some of the areas where my enjoyment is 100%; the research, the permission acquisitions, the quality and quantity of finds recovered, the photography of those finds, the innovation of new technologies such as 3D imagery used (I believe for the first time on our forum), the fantastic interactivity and cordial relationships between landowners, archaeologists and other like-minded detectorists. I'm buzzing just from reading this paragraph! =))

It's so lovely and I'm so proud that I have played some part in this passionate show of joy and well-being, after all, this is what is needed in this troubled world of ours. ;)
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