Another First For Us! One WE Might Refuse Lol

Please post all topics here related to the research and gaining permission to metal detect.
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Re: Another First For Us! One WE Might Refuse Lol

Post by Allectus » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:32 pm

Also, what machines are best for the above search methods & is there one that'll suffice for all three?

The last thing I want is to be caught out 'snailing' only, when I really should be zigging/zagging or even zebra-ing! :))


Cheers ::g
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Re: Another First For Us! One WE Might Refuse Lol

Post by littleboot » Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:16 pm

Sometimes I wander lonely as a cloud...Sometimes I do a slow march up and down in a disciplined way.
Depends on my mood to be honest. It also depends on the permission....and specifically if its one I can pootle around on whenever I want, or one where I have to travel and/or only get access to for a small window of time.
If its the former (most of my permissions are) I wander about. I have a general idea where I have covered before without being anal about it and I have a general notion about where I might concentrate. On some visits that comes down to something as simple as which areas are sheltered from the wind or in the shade. You see I will always be able to pop back and I want my detecting to be PLEASANT and not a route march....slow or otherwise.
If its the latter I follow the crop marks or plough lines roughly without being fetishist about it.
The success of these two strategies depends entirely upon the following:
If the field has been recently ploughed.
If the conditions are favorable.
If what is there to be found is a good match for the technology I am using.
If there IS anything there to be found.

That's it really. No matter how I cover the field someone else will be able to go over it with a different frequency/ set up/ machine and find stuff I never would have picked up.
So I don't sweat it. If its my day its my day. And I will have enjoyed it. I find marching religiously up and down a big old field on my Jack Jones a singularly joyless experience and usually pack up and go home. And I am guaranteed not to find a damn thing if I do that.
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Re: Another First For Us! One WE Might Refuse Lol

Post by Arch Stanton » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:43 am

Think Littleboot sums it up nicely - Do it whichever way you like, however the feeling takes you. No-ones telling you, you have to do it certain way (unless it's your job and your Boss IS telling you to do it a certain way!) just enjoy it and please yourselves. Each to their own. Let's not argue on here, we're all doing this just because we enjoy it surely?! ::g Happy hunting all - Keep it cheery!
I've done the 'buckle boogie', the 'musket-ball mambo' and even the 'silver shuffle', but sadly still no 'gold dance'. You're really gonna know it when you see it though!

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Re: Another First For Us! One WE Might Refuse Lol

Post by Fisher1266X » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:25 am

First of all, thank you for all your replies.

Secondly, this post simply reflected that we were about to pay for a dig for the very first time and would it be worth it after the landowner had warned us several times that it had been done by "coachloads" of detectorists and has been battered to death, ........his words.
The results of this are in another post.

Thirdly, this post appears to have been hijacked and skewed by one of our members to look as though the main thread was all about search methodology, a completely different subject.

Lastly, we accept that everyone has their own style and slant on detecting which we have acknowledged several times and stated this in our articles. Please them and you will see this.

Two members asked what "snail-trailing" was so I felt obliged to answer.
We even snail-trailed a little ourselves yesterday for reasons that will become apparent in the post relating to this farm. Again, that is acknowledgement that snail-trailing has its place in detecting.
Allectus wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:16 pm
So what's the upshot of all this?

Is it best to zig-zag or zag-zig(with a snail or two thrown in for good measure) or go with the straight 'zebra'? Perhaps a mixture of all three would be best if the atmospheric conditions are just right?
Please advise
Newbie
Essex.
Whichever method you decide will reflect your results.
Allectus wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:32 pm
Also, what machines are best for the above search methods & is there one that'll suffice for all three?
The last thing I want is to be caught out 'snailing' only, when I really should be zigging/zagging or even zebra-ing!
Cheers
That is relatively easy to answer; any half-decent machine.

I've never endorsed any of your methods you mention above, however, if you look at the four images (real snail-trails and real detectorist tracking) you should be able to see that there are huge areas of land missed. I've marked these areas with bright yellow dots for visual ease.
The example clearly shows that the detectorist only covered 3% of those fields yet his words were "there's nothing here!".
Please tell me that there's no hammered coins in the other 97% of those fields?
littleboot wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:16 pm
Sometimes I wander lonely as a cloud...Sometimes I do a slow march up and down in a disciplined way.
Depends on my mood to be honest. It also depends on the permission....and specifically if its one I can pootle around on whenever I want, or one where I have to travel and/or only get access to for a small window of time.
If its the former (most of my permissions are) I wander about. I have a general idea where I have covered before without being anal about it and I have a general notion about where I might concentrate. On some visits that comes down to something as simple as which areas are sheltered from the wind or in the shade. You see I will always be able to pop back and I want my detecting to be PLEASANT and not a route march....slow or otherwise.
If its the latter I follow the crop marks or plough lines roughly without being fetishist about it.
The success of these two strategies depends entirely upon the following:
If the field has been recently ploughed.
If the conditions are favorable.
If what is there to be found is a good match for the technology I am using.
If there IS anything there to be found.

That's it really. No matter how I cover the field someone else will be able to go over it with a different frequency/ set up/ machine and find stuff I never would have picked up.
So I don't sweat it. If its my day its my day. And I will have enjoyed it. I find marching religiously up and down a big old field on my Jack Jones a singularly joyless experience and usually pack up and go home. And I am guaranteed not to find a damn thing if I do that.
Unfortunately Jan, we live too far away from our sites to reflect or recite Wordsworth.
I honestly wish we could "pop back", it would be so lovely! So envious that you have nice land so near to where you live.
Believe you me when I say that we have a total sense of happy satisfaction and enjoyment whilst detecting. As I have said before, detecting is only a minor interest for me, natural history is my main focus. In fact, one of the leading experts in the field of birds of prey has asked me to join their group which a great honour for me and unfortunately may replace detecting totally. ;))
I'm sorry Jan, but where do you get the "route march" thing from? In reading our "Time to search a field" article fully, http://www.recoveryofhistory.com/pa-new ... permission you will see that there is no reference to a fast or hurried speed. On the contrary, the recommended maximum speed is 0.3 mph, or in France; 0.54 kmp/h :D

We don't follow any crop marks as they are usually invisible at ground level, we do however follow the drilled crop lines as a reference but this is in our fore-mentioned article.

You are quite right when you say that others may find stuff you've missed but we don't "sweat it" as we had four people with Déus and CTX 3030 machines and go over one of our sites and nothing was found.
We would never "march" on a site as this would be far too fast ...unless it was below 0.3 mph.
The only religious aspect of our surveys would be to pray for good weather... oh and some nice finds =))

Love the end gambit ::g You'll never find anything sat at home ;)

Ironically I could find time to digest the posts from last night as we didn't find anything yesterday using ANY method!

Ooops! nearly forgot one last post that was removed due to spelling mistakes....

In 45 years of metal-detecting, Steve (one of our original team members) said that his eye's were opened and he felt refreshed at the new way of detecting. This comes from a guy that won every monthly contest at his club often claiming 1st, 2nd and 3rd places in both coins and artefacts each month. Again, his words....

Yep, agreed, something so simple as searching a field has been documented so the important question of time may be answered. It's also a great way to indicate how much time you need to spend on any size of field to cover it fully.
For instance, if you have a 2-acre field it will take you a minimum of 9 hours to cover it effectively. Or, if you only have a couple of hours spare, you will only cover 22% of that 2-acre field. Simples :D

I hope that has cleared up any misconceptions that may have arisen.
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Re: Another First For Us! One WE Might Refuse Lol

Post by littleboot » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:07 pm

Phew.
Those were just my observations of how I prefer to detect.

I am pleased for anyone who is successful with whatever method they choose to do their thing.
Above all, I am happy if they are happy doing it. So if that means they do the Zebra, Snail, Mad Cow, Crazy Horse or anything else it is all pretty much irrelevant as long is it is their cuppa and they get a kick out of it.

I appreciate that it always helps to find good stuff. But it needs to be borne in mind that some people will enjoy a wander around finding a few nice bits more than they would enjoy a day walking up and down a gridded area determined to find every target.

I am always interested to hear your take on things and how you have got on. However, I've been doing this for decades now....as have a lot of members here....and I have learned to find a middle way which I enjoy most and gives me success. I know plenty of theory....but as its a hobby and not a job I prefer to allow myself to decide if and when I put it into practice.

Sometimes, Paul, you overdo all this. It becomes overbearing. It doesn't bring out the best in your audience and I don't think it expresses the best in you.
That's my honest take. Please, I beg of you, don't deconstruct and critique it back at me to prove me 'wrong' or I'll lose the will to live. I probably AM wrong. Doesn't matter really does it?
Happy Hunting.
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Re: Another First For Us! One WE Might Refuse Lol

Post by Fisher1266X » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:48 pm

littleboot wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:07 pm
Phew.
Those were just my observations of how I prefer to detect.

I am pleased for anyone who is successful with whatever method they choose to do their thing.
Above all, I am happy if they are happy doing it. So if that means they do the Zebra, Snail, Mad Cow, Crazy Horse or anything else it is all pretty much irrelevant as long is it is their cuppa and they get a kick out of it.

I appreciate that it always helps to find good stuff. But it needs to be borne in mind that some people will enjoy a wander around finding a few nice bits more than they would enjoy a day walking up and down a gridded area determined to find every target.

I am always interested to hear your take on things and how you have got on. However, I've been doing this for decades now....as have a lot of members here....and I have learned to find a middle way which I enjoy most and gives me success. I know plenty of theory....but as its a hobby and not a job I prefer to allow myself to decide if and when I put it into practice.

Sometimes, Paul, you overdo all this. It becomes overbearing. It doesn't bring out the best in your audience and I don't think it expresses the best in you.
That's my honest take. Please, I beg of you, don't deconstruct and critique it back at me to prove me 'wrong' or I'll lose the will to live. I probably AM wrong. Doesn't matter really does it?
Happy Hunting.
Hi Jan,

I agree with what you say and as I've said time and time again, everyone to their own.
Because the whole post isn't read fully by some and it develops into a longer thread such as this one, pertinent points such as "everyone to their own" and "whatever makes you happy" are missed.

The articles I write are usually to answer the questions that members have asked repeatedly.
Quite a lot of members have lost their mojo and question their abilities and their machines performance. They get bogged down into depth issues, programs etc etc. which don't even affect our recovery rates as can be seen (except for this week haha!).
The main factor that influences our finds rates is coverage alone as we use the same standard programs and tools as most detectorists.

Because of the travel time and costs, we need to squeeze as much enjoyment and detecting time in as possible.

The enjoyment detecting creates for me personally has created off-shoots such as a very close involvement with full-scale archaeological digs, 3D photography and some great banter with other detectorists to name a few.

As I've also said before, detecting is a secondary interest with natural history being my main focus. Ironically, it is through natural history that I've had my best finds and greatest memories.
In a way I am so fortunate in having some great interests.

Happy Hunting Jan ;)
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Re: Another First For Us! One WE Might Refuse Lol

Post by oldartefact » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:11 pm

I beg to differ Paul ... the main factor that affects recovery rates is access to pristine undetected land, preferably with some historical context. Get such a plot and my advice is go for it, in what ever way you own Karma pleases... zig-zag .. up, down or sideways ... one will find stuff. Go to a battered site, and no matter what detecting strategy one dreams up, one is still in the lap of the gods. But very good luck to those who go there.

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Re: Another First For Us! One WE Might Refuse Lol

Post by Fisher1266X » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:06 pm

oldartefact wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:11 pm
I beg to differ Paul ... the main factor that affects recovery rates is access to pristine undetected land, preferably with some historical context. Get such a plot and my advice is go for it, in what ever way you own Karma pleases... zig-zag .. up, down or sideways ... one will find stuff. Go to a battered site, and no matter what detecting strategy one dreams up, one is still in the lap of the gods. But very good luck to those who go there.
John, the main factor alone is dead simple... is there anything there at all? Pristine or otherwise.
The second factor is also simple.... how are you going to find it and not miss much?

Your advice is warranted and I would agree, go for undetected land that has history there ::g

Again, you're correct, if there's lots of items in a field you will find "stuff" whatever way you search.
The point I'm making is this; finding the stuff that is missed in that same field.

You mention, karma, dreams and luck.... thats something we don't rely on as you will quickly become deflated.

Another factor that has an influence on detecting is time and money but I will come to that in another post later on.
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Re: Another First For Us! One WE Might Refuse Lol

Post by oldartefact » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:55 pm

Fisher1266X wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:06 pm
oldartefact wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:11 pm
I beg to differ Paul ... the main factor that affects recovery rates is access to pristine undetected land, preferably with some historical context. Get such a plot and my advice is go for it, in what ever way you own Karma pleases... zig-zag .. up, down or sideways ... one will find stuff. Go to a battered site, and no matter what detecting strategy one dreams up, one is still in the lap of the gods. But very good luck to those who go there.
John, the main factor alone is dead simple... is there anything there at all? Pristine or otherwise.
The second factor is also simple.... how are you going to find it and not miss much?

Your advice is warranted and I would agree, go for undetected land that has history there ::g

Again, you're correct, if there's lots of items in a field you will find "stuff" whatever way you search.
The point I'm making is this; finding the stuff that is missed in that same field.

You mention, karma, dreams and luck.... thats something we don't rely on as you will quickly become deflated.

Another factor that has an influence on detecting is time and money but I will come to that in another post later on.
Surely the main factor has to be access to the land, since without access it doesnt matter whether there is anything there or not.
We are all missing stuff ... and we are all finding stuff ... that is how it goes. A 6 hour visit to a 20 acre field ... it simply doesnt matter how you approach the search pattern... My personal preference would be to head for the parts of the field that look interesting. If I was in a small group I would encourage carving the field up and swapping areas... but I would not dictate to my fellows that they should use tramlines or any other search pattern, as it would have no real benefit, and arguably destroy the feeling of freedom, and ultimately their enjoyment.

Looking forward to hearing your views on time and money, but it is a potentially explosive subject. Good luck.

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Re: Another First For Us! One WE Might Refuse Lol

Post by Fisher1266X » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:32 pm

I am completely honoured and overwhelmed that this post has generated such an interest in search techniques, both new and old. It has even spread to other posts too :D

It's heart warming to see that everyone has such a myriad of methods to accomplish their enjoyment of the hobby. ::g

The enjoyment I personally enjoy from the whole spectrum of metal-detecting is beyond the realms of description and cannot be topped. rl;

These are just some of the areas where my enjoyment is 100%; the research, the permission acquisitions, the quality and quantity of finds recovered, the photography of those finds, the innovation of new technologies such as 3D imagery used (I believe for the first time on our forum), the fantastic interactivity and cordial relationships between landowners, archaeologists and other like-minded detectorists. I'm buzzing just from reading this paragraph! =))

It's so lovely and I'm so proud that I have played some part in this passionate show of joy and well-being, after all, this is what is needed in this troubled world of ours. ;)
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