Permission Poaching...

Please post all topics here related to the research and gaining finding permission to metal detect.
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BowRoadBoy
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Permission Poaching...

Post by BowRoadBoy » Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:12 pm

Now, I know all is fair in love and detecting, but have to say I am very sad to say that I lost the majority of my 500 acres permission today to permission poachers. B|

A local detecting club has offered £500 per day and to run a series of rallies over the season.This in spite of the fact that they were fully aware that permission had already been granted.

It is, of course, my landowners prerogative to allow whoever he wants to detect on his land, however, it outrages me that some clubs behave in this way and believe that it is hugely disrespectful to our hobby.

I am only glad that I belong to a club that operates with decent ethics and morals.

Know that I am not the first and certainly will not be the last, but doesn't make it any the less painful for that. :(



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Re: Permission Poaching...

Post by SuperRed » Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:31 pm

A very good and relevant post BBB and one that is my main gripe with the hobby to date!

There is an outfit operating in my area and getting dangerously close to one of mine. They have stated on FB that they are on a 'mission' to get more and more fresh land. As far as I can see there are no real controls on artifacts disappearing overseas or being recorded, just bums on seats.

Obviously, you are right that it is completely the right of the landowner to decide, but a little bit of consideration and courtesy to fellow detectorists (who have worked hard to get the permission) from these 'groups' would help.

It is a problem (and lets face it, some of these outfits do leave problems) and some kind of protocol from those who promote them would be nice.

Brad
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Re: Permission Poaching...

Post by littleboot » Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:29 pm

I would bide my time, wait till they advertise it as 'undetected land' then make sure the world and his wife knows you and your mates have hammered it (and removed the hammies) for the past 20 years. :D
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Re: Permission Poaching...

Post by Bors » Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:33 pm

BowRoadBoy wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:12 pm
Now, I know all is fair in love and detecting, but have to say I am very sad to say that I lost the majority of my 500 acres permission today to permission poachers. B|

A local detecting club has offered £500 per day and to run a series of rallies over the season.This in spite of the fact that they were fully aware that permission had already been granted.

It is, of course, my landowners prerogative to allow whoever he wants to detect on his land, however, it outrages me that some clubs behave in this way and believe that it is hugely disrespectful to our hobby.

I am only glad that I belong to a club that operates with decent ethics and morals.

Know that I am not the first and certainly will not be the last, but doesn't make it any the less painful for that. :(
Welcome to the world of todays modern metal detecting where its common practice for dogs to eat dog.
(used to describe a situation in which people will do anything to be successful, even if what they do harms other people:)

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Re: Permission Poaching...

Post by kenleyboy » Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:30 pm

Unfortunately once the money gets involved it changes the loyalty no matter what , everything has a price . It is rotten luck and I too would be pretty fed up if that happened to me .There is a small group doing the same in our local area .
I know this will be a prickly subject but I know of a few detectorists local to me who have 1000s of acres and one who freely admits he has not been on the land for a couple of years . He unfortunately was talking to the wrong people and it will be these areas that will be ripe for the picking .Despite any "Gentlemans handshake " , if the price is right then land is unfortunately lost .
You never know though , after a bit of time the landowner may get fed up with unfilled holes , too many parked cars and rubbish etc , it will happen as it only takes one to spoil it for the majority .
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Re: Permission Poaching...

Post by BowRoadBoy » Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:33 pm

littleboot wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:29 pm
I would bide my time, wait till they advertise it as 'undetected land' then make sure the world and his wife knows you and your mates have hammered it (and removed the hammies) for the past 20 years. :D
Not a bad idea. Sadly I also know that they're setting likely unrealistic expectations with the landowner. Spent quite a lot of time talking about the value of coins - even showed pictures of one 'worth £250,000'. I am also sure that, even though I have been scrupulous to show finds to the landowner, wine at Christmas etc to thank them for permission to detect on their land, they have also suggested that I may be keeping from showing some of the 'better finds'.

We all know, the reality is they will bash the land for what profit they can make and likely not give a hoot for the history. B|

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Re: Permission Poaching...

Post by oldartefact » Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:39 pm

BowRoadBoy wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:12 pm
Now, I know all is fair in love and detecting, but have to say I am very sad to say that I lost the majority of my 500 acres permission today to permission poachers. B|

A local detecting club has offered £500 per day and to run a series of rallies over the season.This in spite of the fact that they were fully aware that permission had already been granted.

It is, of course, my landowners prerogative to allow whoever he wants to detect on his land, however, it outrages me that some clubs behave in this way and believe that it is hugely disrespectful to our hobby.

I am only glad that I belong to a club that operates with decent ethics and morals.

Know that I am not the first and certainly will not be the last, but doesn't make it any the less painful for that. :(
I like to think that I operate with decent ethics and morals.. that said when I've organised club digs.. the very very very very very last thing on my mind, when seeking permission from a new farmer, was whether or not he/she already has detectorists on his/her land. The rationale being two fold,,, first its irrelevant, and second it would be akin to shooting myself in the foot.
Sorry that this may be hard and brutal news... but its the reality of my ethical and moral world (noting here that one persons ethics, are another persons opportunity).
I am not immune to your feelings and my advice would be to blitz your permission, before others have time to get a look in.
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Re: Permission Poaching...

Post by Hairyhands » Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:45 pm

I despise this side of the hobbie. Most big rally organisers don't care. Rallies should be bloody down right banned and not allowed. It's disgusting and most people on these rallies pocket the finds and never declare them. It makes me very angry and sad. All these organisers are interested in is their own bloody pockets. Idiots

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Re: Permission Poaching...

Post by oldartefact » Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:47 pm

SuperRed wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:31 pm
A very good and relevant post BBB and one that is my main gripe with the hobby to date!

There is an outfit operating in my area and getting dangerously close to one of mine. They have stated on FB that they are on a 'mission' to get more and more fresh land. As far as I can see there are no real controls on artifacts disappearing overseas or being recorded, just bums on seats.

Obviously, you are right that it is completely the right of the landowner to decide, but a little bit of consideration and courtesy to fellow detectorists (who have worked hard to get the permission) from these 'groups' would help.

It is a problem (and lets face it, some of these outfits do leave problems) and some kind of protocol from those who promote them would be nice.

Brad
So the conclusion is that Metal detecting clubs strip the land and sell stuff overseas... whereas individual detectorists all have "Jesus" for their middle name. Where exactly is the evidence for all this stuff? Because I for one am totally clueless as to the rationale for any such claims, and to be honest some might call it "protectionism" ... ie. slate off the opposition, to keep the land for individual detectorists... I may be wrong, but I would bet a Bishops dollar that I'm right. Hey ho.
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Re: Permission Poaching...

Post by Muddyknee » Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:48 pm

That's why I only deal with small scale land owners,too small for clubs to operate on.
Plus I have a much better relationship with the owners as they're either customers or their friends.
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Re: Permission Poaching...

Post by kenleyboy » Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:50 pm

they have also suggested that I may be keeping from showing some of the 'better finds'.

If there was any hint of them not trusting me then I would unfortunately have to walk away .
Looks like they doubted your integrity and if so eventually the trust would have broken down anyway and you would no doubt would have been forced to part company .
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Re: Permission Poaching...

Post by oldartefact » Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:51 pm

Hairyhands wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:45 pm
I despise this side of the hobbie. Most big rally organisers don't care. Rallies should be bloody down right banned and not allowed. It's disgusting and most people on these rallies pocket the finds and never declare them. It makes me very angry and sad. All these organisers are interested in is their own bloody pockets. Idiots
The original poster said that it was a local club ... yes some organisers dont care... but I would welcome view of any hard evidence that "most" dont care... its a bit like saying that most individual detectorists dont care... it may be the case... but there simply isnt any evidence. Or is there?
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Re: Permission Poaching...

Post by BowRoadBoy » Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:52 pm

oldartefact wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:39 pm
BowRoadBoy wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:12 pm
Now, I know all is fair in love and detecting, but have to say I am very sad to say that I lost the majority of my 500 acres permission today to permission poachers. B|

A local detecting club has offered £500 per day and to run a series of rallies over the season.This in spite of the fact that they were fully aware that permission had already been granted.

It is, of course, my landowners prerogative to allow whoever he wants to detect on his land, however, it outrages me that some clubs behave in this way and believe that it is hugely disrespectful to our hobby.

I am only glad that I belong to a club that operates with decent ethics and morals.

Know that I am not the first and certainly will not be the last, but doesn't make it any the less painful for that. :(
I like to think that I operate with decent ethics and morals.. that said when I've organised club digs.. the very very very very very last thing on my mind, when seeking permission from a new farmer, was whether or not he/she already has detectorists on his/her land. The rationale being two fold,,, first its irrelevant, and second it would be akin to shooting myself in the foot.
Sorry that this may be hard and brutal news... but its the reality of my ethical and moral world (noting here that one persons ethics, are another persons opportunity).
I am not immune to your feelings and my advice would be to blitz your permission, before others have time to get a look in.
I would happily blitz it if it weren't for the fact that I've already lost it! And, again with respect, whilst you may not ask the question, if you were told that there was already someone on the land, would you still persist and push to displace anyway? From what I have seen of your posts, I don't believe that you would.

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Re: Permission Poaching...

Post by lonecoiler » Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:54 pm

It would be interesting to know what percentage of landowners declare this "£500.00" per day to HMRC ;;z
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Re: Permission Poaching...

Post by mrix » Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:58 pm

Unfortunately there is no form of regulations on what is right or wrong for the individual permission holder, clubs or rallies.... it only boils down to the moral side of things, yes there are many well run clubs and rallies, also decent and honest individuals but there are others that are less than "shall we say scruples
"
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Lots of accusations are starting to be bounded so this topics will have to be locked off.

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