Detector usage on Common Land

Please post all topics here related to the research and gaining permission to metal detect.
Post Reply
User avatar
f8met
Posts: 1455
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 12:14 am
Location: Cambs and Suffolk
Has thanked: 57 times
Been thanked: 294 times

Detector usage on Common Land

Post by f8met » Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:38 pm

While doing a bit of research about detecting on council land, I found an interesting section in the Countryside Code and Rights of Way Act 2000.
(1)In this Part “access land” means any land which—

(a)is shown as open country on a map in conclusive form issued by the appropriate countryside body for the purposes of this Part,

(b)is shown on such a map as registered common land,

(c)is registered common land in any area outside Inner London for which no such map relating to registered common land has been issued,

(d)is situated more than 600 metres above sea level in any area for which no such map relating to open country has been issued, or

(e)is dedicated for the purposes of this Part under section 16,

but does not (in any of those cases) include excepted land or land which is treated by section 15(1) as being accessible to the public apart from this Act.

It states in Schedule 2


Restrictions to be observed by persons exercising right of access
General restrictions
1. Section 2(1) does not entitle a person to be on any land if, in or on that
land, he—
...
(k) uses or has with him any metal detector,
...
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/37/enacted. See the PDF for the current law.

Seems pretty conclusive that common land is out of bounds for detector usage.


Dave

Deus, 9" black coil + Elliptical hf

2018 19 Hammered

User avatar
fred
Posts: 5698
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:15 pm
Has thanked: 701 times
Been thanked: 2163 times

Re: Detector usage on Common Land

Post by fred » Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:44 pm

Only if you are exercising a Right of Access, i.e. going onto the land because the law says that you can.

If you have permission to be on the land with a metal detector from somebody who is entitled to give you that permission then that is almost certainly an entirely different situation. ::g

User avatar
f8met
Posts: 1455
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 12:14 am
Location: Cambs and Suffolk
Has thanked: 57 times
Been thanked: 294 times

Re: Detector usage on Common Land

Post by f8met » Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:22 pm

fred wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:44 pm
If you have permission to be on the land with a metal detector from somebody who is entitled to give you that permission then that is almost certainly an entirely different situation. ::g
Which could indeed be the landowner of said common land. Just wanted to put it out there for people who are searching to see if they can and and somewhere to point people if the question is ever asked or assumed.

Interestingly on the City of Cambridge Commons bye laws, there is a paragraph that states
Metal detectors
3.10 No person shall, except with the consent of the
Council, on any common land use any device
designed or adapted for detecting or locating any
metal or mineral in the ground.
However, they probably won't grant permission and if they did would probably say that you can't dig or remove items from the ground which is covered in a different bye law.
Dave

Deus, 9" black coil + Elliptical hf

2018 19 Hammered

User avatar
fred
Posts: 5698
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:15 pm
Has thanked: 701 times
Been thanked: 2163 times

Re: Detector usage on Common Land

Post by fred » Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:27 pm

f8met wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:22 pm
fred wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:44 pm
If you have permission to be on the land with a metal detector from somebody who is entitled to give you that permission then that is almost certainly an entirely different situation. ::g
Which could indeed be the landowner of said common land. Just wanted to put it out there for people who are searching to see if they can and and somewhere to point people if the question is ever asked or assumed.

Interestingly on the City of Cambridge Commons bye laws, there is a paragraph that states
Metal detectors
3.10 No person shall, except with the consent of the
Council, on any common land use any device
designed or adapted for detecting or locating any
metal or mineral in the ground.
However, they probably won't grant permission and if they did would probably say that you can't dig or remove items from the ground which is covered in a different bye law.
That is a pretty standard clause for most council byelaws, however, it certainly doesn't stop the council giving you permission and some actually will. ::g

domelec
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:02 am
Location: west yorkshire
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Detector usage on Common Land

Post by domelec » Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:59 pm

What if your local council have no bylaw? Or policies that you can find ?

User avatar
fred
Posts: 5698
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:15 pm
Has thanked: 701 times
Been thanked: 2163 times

Re: Detector usage on Common Land

Post by fred » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:07 pm

domelec wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:59 pm
What if your local council have no bylaw? Or policies that you can find ?
They probably will have because without them they will have no powers to do very much at all. Even without Byelaws you still wouldn't have the right to detect on their land without their permission, their recourse if you did would be more long winded that's all. :D

domelec
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:02 am
Location: west yorkshire
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Detector usage on Common Land

Post by domelec » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:14 pm

My local council don't have any ( believe me iv searched and searched) but most areas are protected
Either nature reserved or historic interest so obviously can't and I wouldn't try to detect on them.
But there's also a lot of woodland and open spaces that are not but they still say no

User avatar
f8met
Posts: 1455
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 12:14 am
Location: Cambs and Suffolk
Has thanked: 57 times
Been thanked: 294 times

Re: Detector usage on Common Land

Post by f8met » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:00 pm

domelec wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:59 pm
What if your local council have no bylaw? Or policies that you can find ?
If in doubt always ask. Having a copy of a piece of paper that says you can with you stops anyone telling you you can't.
Dave

Deus, 9" black coil + Elliptical hf

2018 19 Hammered

User avatar
liamnolan
Moderator
Posts: 9797
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:06 am
Location: Hemswell, Lincolnshire. originally from Dublin, southern Ireland
Has thanked: 299 times
Been thanked: 274 times
Contact:

Re: Detector usage on Common Land

Post by liamnolan » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:41 pm

People take it for granted that because someone has put something in print at some time, then that is the end of the matter. Councils know its easier to just say NO, less paperwork and we need to remember that its the taxpayers who deserve to be treated much better and to challenge any decisions to forbid responsible detecting. Laws are made by people FOR people and we should not have to apologise for asking for something that should be allowed. We need to put the onus on others to show good reason for the refusals. But of course you then get the "Sorry, but its the law .." Yes, and the laws can change and should change and they will only ever change when people are put under pressure to justify poor lawmaking"
Rant over .... Liam B| :;@
Deus, WSi's - In the end we will regret the chances we didn't take, the relationships we were afraid to have and the decisions we waited too long to make .. Secretary Irish Metal Detecting Society IMDS

User avatar
f8met
Posts: 1455
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 12:14 am
Location: Cambs and Suffolk
Has thanked: 57 times
Been thanked: 294 times

Re: Detector usage on Common Land

Post by f8met » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:28 pm

That's also the reason we need to have organisations in place to give detecting a voice. These guidelines where created by DEFRA no doubt with people having an influence to specifically exclude the hobby.

And as it is a model agreement is easily adopted by councils as I have come across a few in my research without them having to think about it.
Dave

Deus, 9" black coil + Elliptical hf

2018 19 Hammered

User avatar
liamnolan
Moderator
Posts: 9797
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:06 am
Location: Hemswell, Lincolnshire. originally from Dublin, southern Ireland
Has thanked: 299 times
Been thanked: 274 times
Contact:

Re: Detector usage on Common Land

Post by liamnolan » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:36 am

NCMD do a really good job on our behalf and are pretty much the unsung heroes. Without them in place we would struggle even more.
Re Common Land - I have moved house up to Lincolnshire and as I type I look out across some Common Land with a herd of cows and down towards the Trent Valley. Beautiful view. The farmer who owns the land has had to abandon his planning application to build 8 homes on it. Reason? He told me "Just too much paperwork right now, will do it next year" However, the Ordnance Survey chap who came around to update his maps admired the view and when I mentioned the possible 8 houses he referred me to his computer screen on his chest, that it was Common Land and so unlikely to be built upon. Hence the farmers red tape ::g
Detecting does not harm the land and having a blanket ban on Common Land is simply a cop out by people who forget who pays their salaries. They rely on us rolling over and accepting what has been written, but if they are forced to provide sensible arguments to support their legislation then, we may better understand why there is no detecting, or they agree to allow and manage the access.
Sometimes we can be too polite and agreeable, Liam :;@
Deus, WSi's - In the end we will regret the chances we didn't take, the relationships we were afraid to have and the decisions we waited too long to make .. Secretary Irish Metal Detecting Society IMDS

jcmaloney
Posts: 1924
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:17 am
Has thanked: 336 times
Been thanked: 223 times

Re: Detector usage on Common Land

Post by jcmaloney » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:41 am

The biggest issue is lack of consistency across "councils".

What a parish may permit a county might deny.

Put it in comparison with recycling collections, I don`t know any two councils that sort/collect the same using the same method.

And that is what makes negotiating a resolution so difficult. ::g

jcmaloney
Posts: 1924
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:17 am
Has thanked: 336 times
Been thanked: 223 times

Re: Detector usage on Common Land

Post by jcmaloney » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:43 am

The other thorny issue would be finds......... who do they belong to? Who conserves them? The more you look the more complex it becomes and more folk get involved!

User avatar
f8met
Posts: 1455
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 12:14 am
Location: Cambs and Suffolk
Has thanked: 57 times
Been thanked: 294 times

Re: Detector usage on Common Land

Post by f8met » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:23 am

For commons it is easy. The landowner owns the finds.

For council land, that's where it gets tricky and they could argue that they should be retaining all finds as they belong to village / town / city / county where they are found.

My default thought for any land is, if I found treasure where would the reward go?
Dave

Deus, 9" black coil + Elliptical hf

2018 19 Hammered

User avatar
f8met
Posts: 1455
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 12:14 am
Location: Cambs and Suffolk
Has thanked: 57 times
Been thanked: 294 times

Re: Detector usage on Common Land

Post by f8met » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:27 am

Lets not also remember that no does mean no. We can ask why but can't insist on it being changed to yes as that can do us no favours. We don't push landowners so why push councils?
Dave

Deus, 9" black coil + Elliptical hf

2018 19 Hammered

User avatar
liamnolan
Moderator
Posts: 9797
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:06 am
Location: Hemswell, Lincolnshire. originally from Dublin, southern Ireland
Has thanked: 299 times
Been thanked: 274 times
Contact:

Re: Detector usage on Common Land

Post by liamnolan » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:21 am

But remember that whilst we do not pay the wages of the farmer, we DO pay the wages of those who manage OUR taxes and who we trust to disburse sensibly on our behalf. Councils do not "own" the land, they are responsible for its usage. They can get voted out in the next election anyway, so always best to keep the pressure up, Liam OooO
Deus, WSi's - In the end we will regret the chances we didn't take, the relationships we were afraid to have and the decisions we waited too long to make .. Secretary Irish Metal Detecting Society IMDS

geoman
Posts: 554
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:27 pm
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 63 times

Re: Detector usage on Common Land

Post by geoman » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:54 am

I had success some years ago by lobbying my Ward Councillors to get access to some overgrown common land used for dog walking and motor bike riding. After some common sense letters and exchanges at their surgery access was given. I had to even write the brief of how to go about it.

It was done more for the principle rather than the need and finds were nothing more than modern back to Victorian/Georgian. Loads of rubbish which i photgraphed for the record and passed on any historic finds to the local museum. Of course they were not interested in them although a local Victorian beer bottle which was turned up by a badger digging for worms was greatfully accepted as they did not have an example.

Post Reply

Return to “Permissions”