1st permission - The Holy Grail of detecting?

Please post all topics here related to the research and gaining permission to metal detect.
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GazFisha
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1st permission - The Holy Grail of detecting?

Post by GazFisha » Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:24 pm

Hi All,

Despondency is starting to set in :-L Currently on a 100% knock back rate and wondering if that elusive 1st permission is even likely.

Me and a detecting buddy went to see a farmer 'the old friend of a friend' and got an immediate "No detecting will be done on my land"....so that was that then - his words, not mine ;;z

Most farmland in walking distance is by Tennant farmers, so that's a non-starter. So how where next?

Do I blatantly approach a farmer and hope for the best, or is there a more scientific approach that I'm unaware of?

Still club digging which is great, but the access to farmland has really got me hooked and I feel I need something to call my own :D

A desperate call for ideas from the wise!

Thanks in advance - Coil to the Soil.....

Gaz

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Re: 1st permission - The Holy Grail of detecting?

Post by WVAM » Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:54 pm

GazFisha wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:24 pm

Most farmland in walking distance is by Tennant farmers, so that's a non-starter. So how where next?
Ain't necessarily so. I have both sides of the coin. Around me is Duke of Northumberland Land and the Wotton Estate = zero detecting no matter what the tenant says over huge tracts of land. Although one tenant does allow it for one of his mates and has said to the estate manager he wants any old iron out of the ground to avoid damage to tractor tyres. I'm just telling it as it is.

On the other hand some tenants have arrangements where they can allow access. For example, I shoot over a lot of tenanted land and have permission from the representative of the owner i.e. the tenant. I don't see why it would be any different for detecting. I do detect on some tenanted land but got the introduction to the owner from the tenant who I've known for years - in your case that doesn't count.

Short answer is that if you don't ask you don't get and the worst they can say is "no".

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Re: 1st permission - The Holy Grail of detecting?

Post by Steve_T » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:31 pm

You have to be patient and keep knocking I'm afraid, the personal touch by speaking face to face I believe is best, perhaps on your own rather than with somebody as it may be intimidating to the landowner.

Printout some info about yourself and why you want to detect on the land with contact details and some id attached like a photocopy of your driving licence, a copy of your insurance, the metal detectorists code of conduct and perhaps info about the PAS, leave it with them, who knows they may contact you.

Possibly best to be in smart casuals and say your not trying to sell them anything, and not kitted out in any army camouflage looking like your about to invade a country.

Permision has to be granted by the landowner, not the tenant, but there maybe a clause that requires written permission from the tenant, but it is courteous to inform a tenant if permission is obtained from the landowner, also best to keep in touch with the tenant to find out what he's doing with the land regards animals

Good luck and keep trying

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Re: 1st permission - The Holy Grail of detecting?

Post by Oxgirl36 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:41 pm

Or go for the none farmers with land. People with a few acres for horses or similar are often more likely to say yes. Be willing to offer up everything and anything found, and for them to keep. They are fair, in my experience, and let you keep the stuff you love/ collect/ can't bare to part with. Just a thought.

Good luck! ::g
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Re: 1st permission - The Holy Grail of detecting?

Post by Thorpey69 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:18 pm

I've been in the same position,I've asked as many people as possible and have just had a couple of breakthroughs,the 1st was 13 acres of ancient woodland which I suspect will yield shotties due to its remoteness and it's extremely overgrown,I went and did a pay and play farm yesterday which is 500 acres but costs £13 a go so not ideal,and then yesterday I got 60 acres of pasture which I'm going to have a crack at on Sunday hopefully,as others have said keep trying something will turn up,although it can get you down getting rejected.

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Re: 1st permission - The Holy Grail of detecting?

Post by roamingrob » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:02 pm

sending PM ::g
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Re: 1st permission - The Holy Grail of detecting?

Post by GazFisha » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:08 pm

Thanks guys - I knees there would be wise words ::g

I was thinking of posting letters next, and I think adding NCMD info and ID is a great idea. I've also ensured I go in civvies as opposed to full kit; not wanting to appear presumptuous.

Never thought of horse fields, as I guessed the wouldn't want the risk of holes that could potentially injure the animals - even if I explained about careful plugging. With this in mind there is a horse field not a million miles from me that a former roman road dissects and evidence of a villa so that could be the next step.

So, is there an easy way to find out who owns which land?

Thanks again OooO

Gaz

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Re: 1st permission - The Holy Grail of detecting?

Post by Mud Max » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:34 pm

Ask the locals in the areas. I have found more info on landowners from people doing the gardening or walking the dog. They don't have to be defensive or worried as they are not saying yes to anything. If your really lucky they know the landowner, and now when you meet them you can say "I was talking to old Bob the other day" and now you don't sound like a complete stranger quite so much.

There's nothing wrong with being a wee bit sneaky as long as your still playing fair.
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Re: 1st permission - The Holy Grail of detecting?

Post by tcawood » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:48 pm

I started detecting in June and had the same issue...

But I'm a city boy, knew no farmers, didn't even have any real local ones etc... So the advice about getting to know local farmers or the idea of walking up a country lane to some random farm and hoping to catch them in, in a good mood and amenable to my request seemed a long shot.

So I didn't do any of that... and now I have three permissions with approx 400 acres to go at.

Here's what I did, which is pretty simple to do and can be done from home...

Find all the local farms that are within the distance you are willing to travel to who have some form of internet presence, there's surprisingly few BUT the following would be a good start.
- Farm shops
- Fisheries
- Caravan/Camp sites
- Petting zoos

The common denominator is that they all have side businesses that mean they interact with consumers and therefore have websites and email addresses.

Then construct a good email, explain your interest, mention NCMD membership and the like... and if you do something extra like blog about your finds, write for the local paper etc then mention that too*.

Press send, repeat, and keep a log of who you send it to.

I sent 60 or so emails, got something like 20 responses, mostly 'we don't do that', 'we're tennants' or 'we've already got someone who does that'... but three said yes, and as luck would have it they're all different kinds of land.

You can also expand the principle to other landowners, e.g. golf clubs, manor houses/stately homes, and hotels with grounds (for weddings and such).

The effort is relatively minimal, all done from home and it worked for me... so could for you.

Good luck!

*I write screenplays and mentioned this in some of my emails, both my second and third permissions commented on that.
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Re: 1st permission - The Holy Grail of detecting?

Post by Oxgirl36 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:54 pm

Absolutely agree! And you are right about the dogs. Being a dog owner is a great advantage as horses owners often have dogs and you get to know people before you ask. But you can start walking without a dog with a pocket full of dog treats and you start chatting anyway. I'm the proud owner of 2 friendly pooches and often chat to other people without dogs. There are a few older villagers who my dogs especially love because they know treats are always on offer ::g

Just remember to sell the idea of searching the areas history - you'll be surprised how you get offered land without having to ask if you show a passion for the areas history. Drop in local info they don't know and you'll be given introductions too. Stops people thinking you are driven by finding treasure (often how detectorists are unfairly viewed).I am always astounded about how delighted smallholders are to be given Vickie pennies and old horse shoes. I feel I almost need to apologise for not finding older more interesting stuff but they don't care.
Please keep us informed of how you get on ::g
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Re: 1st permission - The Holy Grail of detecting?

Post by jcmaloney » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:10 am

I`ll chuck in my tuppence worth about tenanted farms.

Ask the tenant who owns it.

I did just that & then the work started.
Wrote to landowner (titled chap), took him 6 months to reply and a further 3 months to arrange a mutually convenient meeting.
I had asked for a particular field on a tenanted farm and already had agreement from the tenant.
Said titled chap met me at one of his houses (I was a bit nervous to be honest) he signed a search agreement but changed the date from 1 year to 10....I wasn`t arguing.
He then arranged an appointment with his land agent which was about 80 miles away so cost me a half day off work to go...I had to take NCMD Insurance policy, risk assesment, ID and copies of his letter & the tenants signed agreement.
Land agent then said "Thats all fine, I will go & get you a map". I thought that was a bit odd as I had already provided a map of the 120 acre field.
Land agent returned with a map of the whole estate...................... 27,500 acres.
I nearly fainted. :D
Start to finish probably took 18 months, the thing is not to hassle folk or pressurise them. What we do is a hobby, farming is their business.
You also end up negotiating with Estate managers, gamekeepers as well. So detecting only takes place on a Sunday (shooting midweek & Saturday) and we only get 3 days after land is drilled (Estate managers call).
Over the last 4 years I have met with the landowner twice a year to update him on what is found, alongside doing Museum displays of the finds and similar local events.
Other random occurences have led to him being filmed for TV series (RRPG of this very forum!) and getting back some bits & pieces that are important to him & his family.
Our relationship has developed over time and will carry on for some time I think. ::g

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Re: 1st permission - The Holy Grail of detecting?

Post by GazFisha » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:50 am

Thanks again all ::g

Lots of fantastic ideas to keep me busy over the coming weeks. Our Loyal Springer Spaniel will be chuffed with a new walkies route and hopefully this let us 'bump' into the right people.

I was expecting the tenant farmer and titled landowner to be a non-starter, but reading JC's post this has restored my faith in the potential to crack this one. Researching the estate last night lead me to realise just how extensive the tenant network is around me - but you never know.

I'll keep you updated OooO

Gaz

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Re: 1st permission - The Holy Grail of detecting?

Post by Nectardetector » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:27 pm

Just keep asking they can't all be no it's about catching them at the right time and when they are in a good mood I get more yeses when they sell there sheep off and they have some extra cash there in pretty good mood had one farmer he said no to everybody for 25 years he said my brother drove past from work and Tried and he said yes but only because he had decent win on a scratch card and he was feeling generous crazy

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