Crown Estate Foreshore Permit

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Re: Crown Estate Foreshore Permit

Post by Phil2401 » Mon May 29, 2017 1:19 pm

I commented a couple of weeks ago on beach detecting, specifically Worthing (although there must be many other examples) - had a look at Worthing council's byelaws and there is nothing in there to prevent metal detecting, but interestingly the byelaws indicate that the foreshore below high water mark is Crown Estate. Worthing beach is not marked in purple on the Crown Estate map, so under the previous rules it would appear that the Crown Estate did not allow metal detecting there.

However my point is - the Crown Estate, as we all now know, are currently reviewing their policy on beach detecting. Although Worthing beach is not currently specifically identified, i.e. marked in purple, does this review of their policy mean that the purple areas are also under review and can therefore be disregarded? (obviously using common sense re. SSSIs and AONBs).

My interpretation is that since there is currently no policy, metal detecting is allowed on any beach owned by the Crown Estate, so all we have to do at present is identify that the particular beach is owned by the Crown Estate, check the local authority's byelaws and off we go...

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Re: Crown Estate Foreshore Permit

Post by Dhiggi » Mon May 29, 2017 1:54 pm

Most of the beaches up in the North East that are Crown Estate also seem to be covered by an SSSI; I have seen references to people saying that they do go on those beaches and I have also seen posts that suggest that SSSIs are totally out of bounds. I have tried to do a bit of research and have found no evidence of Natural England actually not allowing responsible detecting on beaches (but not dunes etc.)
Do I need specific permission from them to detect on the SSSI beaches, or would it be good practice to get permission anyway, or should I assume that if I'm being responsible about it then I'm OK?


https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... sponse.pdf
viewtopic.php?t=8813
http://netfella.co.uk/Natural%20England%20Reply.pdf

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Re: Crown Estate Foreshore Permit

Post by Phil2401 » Mon May 29, 2017 4:22 pm

Dhiggi wrote:
Mon May 29, 2017 1:54 pm
Most of the beaches up in the North East that are Crown Estate also seem to be covered by an SSSI; I have seen references to people saying that they do go on those beaches and I have also seen posts that suggest that SSSIs are totally out of bounds. I have tried to do a bit of research and have found no evidence of Natural England actually not allowing responsible detecting on beaches (but not dunes etc.)
Do I need specific permission from them to detect on the SSSI beaches, or would it be good practice to get permission anyway, or should I assume that if I'm being responsible about it then I'm OK?


https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... sponse.pdf
viewtopic.php?t=8813
http://netfella.co.uk/Natural%20England%20Reply.pdf
If it's an SSSI or and AONB, clearly you shouldn't go there. The rules are there to protect the natural habitat / flaura & fauna etc. and must be observed.
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Re: Crown Estate Foreshore Permit

Post by Dhiggi » Mon May 29, 2017 5:30 pm

Phil2401 wrote:
Mon May 29, 2017 4:22 pm
Dhiggi wrote:
Mon May 29, 2017 1:54 pm
Most of the beaches up in the North East that are Crown Estate also seem to be covered by an SSSI; I have seen references to people saying that they do go on those beaches and I have also seen posts that suggest that SSSIs are totally out of bounds. I have tried to do a bit of research and have found no evidence of Natural England actually not allowing responsible detecting on beaches (but not dunes etc.)
Do I need specific permission from them to detect on the SSSI beaches, or would it be good practice to get permission anyway, or should I assume that if I'm being responsible about it then I'm OK?


https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... sponse.pdf
viewtopic.php?t=8813
http://netfella.co.uk/Natural%20England%20Reply.pdf
If it's an SSSI or and AONB, clearly you shouldn't go there. The rules are there to protect the natural habitat / flaura & fauna etc. and must be observed.
But the links I have posted are examples of Natural England saying that detecting is ok on SSSI beaches...

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Crown Estate Foreshore Detecting T & C

Post by Jungle » Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:33 pm

https://www.thecrownestate.co.uk/media/ ... ecting.pdf

I don't do beach but wondered if this was a revised edition or has it always been a case of unclaimed valuable items are divided between crown and finder after a haggle process (4.iii) ?
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Re: Crown Estate Foreshore Permit

Post by Dave8472 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:46 pm

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Re: Crown Estate Foreshore Permit

Post by mikee657 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:05 am

I have recently had a conversation with Natural England in regard to detecting on SSSI areas. Most of the coast line falls under crown estates. But there are areas that's are controlled by local councils or have land owners. You would have to get the usual land owners permission for these but SSSI areas on crown estates are different. Areas in SSSI are ok to detect in as long as you are low to high tide mark only and do not detect on any land attached. Areas you are not allowed to detect in are sand marshes and various habitats for birds etc. and the maps listed before this will show that. They do ask you to refill any holes and pick up a bit of plastic on your way. If you do e-mail looking for a response from them it could be long winded as most will respond with land owner permission and what you can't do and what you have to do to get permission to do anything on nesting bird sites etc. It took me ages to get a proper response from them and that was by telephone after about two weeks back and forth with e-mail. Just remember low to high tide mark only.

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Re: Crown Estate Foreshore Permit

Post by Lincoln/edd » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:37 am

Hi I'm going to make a trip to a beach / estuary along the north east coast Skegness to mablethorpe not quite sure we're yet does any one know if all this coast line is ok for detecting without any permission just want a few hrs of a quiet life without any agro Eddie

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Re: Crown Estate Foreshore Permit

Post by Oxgirl36 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:39 pm

Please note the terms and conditions of the Crown Estates license have been updated.

The links have been refreshed in the first post at the beginning of this topic. To save you clicking through for the new terms and conditions I have copied them below.

I have highlighted the areas I believe detectorists should be particularly aware, of although the whole document is important and should be read in full.


Terms and Conditions for metal detecting on The Crown Estate foreshore
Anybody wishing to carry out metal detecting on our foreshore is granted a permissive right from The Crown Estate; this permissive right does not apply to the seabed or river beds or any other Crown Estate land. The permissive right is also subject to detectorists adhering to The Treasure Act 1996 and its accompanying code of practice, as well as our terms and conditions.
1. The consent hereby granted extends only to the foreshore only and not to any part of the
bed of the sea.
2. On occasions third parties may restrict metal detecting on Crown Estate land. For example if the foreshore is within a Site of Special Scientific Interest (SSSI) or a Marine Conservation Zone (MCZ) then the relevant authority may object to certain activities, and so access may be restricted. We expect detectorists searching on our foreshore to be sensitive to environmental designations and if necessary obtain any additional consent’s. The relevant authority will be Natural England, Natural Resources Wales or the Northern Ireland Environment Agency.
Local authorities also have the power to ban metal detecting and other activities through the use of byelaws and we would therefore recommend checking with the appropriate authority to ensure that no such ban is in place.
3. You are permitted to carry out searches on the foreshore as described above only on the following basis:
i. You may use a metal detector for such purpose;
ii. You may only investigate the surface of the foreshore and not excavate into the hard pack sub-surface of the foreshore to ensure that the archaeological integrity of any embedded find is retained;
iii. No mechanical tool, plant or equipment may be used for excavation;
iv. Any hole (however small or shallow) must be refilled so that the foreshore is reinstated to its condition before digging or excavation was commenced by the applicant so as not to create a hazard to other foreshore users.
4. You are required:
i. To report all archaeological finds to the Portable Antiquities Scheme and follow the "Code of Practice for Responsible Metal Detecting" at all times.
ii. To report the find of any item which may, or which on reasonable grounds is likely to be, treasure within the meaning of the Treasure Act 1996 to the Coroner's Court for the district in which the foreshore is situated within fourteen days of the date of the find and to supply evidence to The Crown Estate that this has been undertaken. Any reward to be paid pursuant to the Treasure Act 1996 shall be determined by the appropriate authority. Apportionment will be agreed between the finder and The Crown Estate but generally this will be in equal shares.
iii. To report the find of any item of value such as jewellery and coins (excluding individual or small quantities of modern coins) to The Crown Estate and the Police within fourteen days of the date of the find. The value of such a find will be determined by agreement between the applicant and The Crown Estate or by valuation by at least two other persons selected by The Crown Estate and the applicant, or by sale for the highest available price. Any monies received shall be divided equally between The Crown Estate and the applicant (after the deduction of any costs).
iv. To report the find of any item of value in Northern Ireland to The Crown Estate and the Police and the Director of the Ulster Museum within fourteen days of the date of the find. Such find to be treated under the provisions of the Historic Monuments Act (Northern Ireland) 1971.
v. To report the find of any item which may or which on reasonable grounds is likely to be considered Wreck within the meaning of the Merchant Shipping Act 1995 to the Receiver of Wreck and The Crown Estate within fourteen days of the date of the find.
5. The Crown Estate reserves their right to ownership of all or any objects found, and the granting of this permission does not transfer any such rights to you. You may not claim ownership or rights to any objects found on the foreshore by virtue of this consent.

6. You shall endeavour not to interfere with any persons exercising public rights on the foreshore of any description and shall not interfere with any property on the foreshore known to be the property of any other party.
7. The Crown Estate may restrict or prohibit access to any part of the foreshore covered at any time without notice.
8. You will go onto the foreshore at your own risk and no liability shall attach to The Crown Estate in any respect relative to any injury (including death) loss, damage whatever, including due to negligence, to the applicant or any property of the applicant whilst on the foreshore and you will indemnify The Crown Estate against all actions, proceedings, claims, demands, damages, costs and losses relating to or arising out of the exercise of any rights covered by or related to this permission and arising from the failure of the applicant to report any finding to the relevant person or authority pursuant to the terms of this licence.
9. You will be responsible for obtaining any other necessary permissions including those of adjoining land owners in order to access the foreshore.
10. You accept that the foreshore can be a dangerous place. You should check the times of tides before accessing the foreshore, and should be aware that tides can generate strong currents
and should take all steps to ensure personal safety whilst on the foreshore.

Note: The River Thames Only
In respect of the River Thames foreshore only, we jointly administer a permit with the Port of London authority.

Due to the sensitive archaeological nature of the Thames, foreshore searching is banned or subject to additional restrictions in a number of locations. For a permit, please contact:
Port of London Authority
London River House, Royal Pier Road
Gravesend, http://www.pla.co.uk/
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Re: Crown Estate Foreshore Permit

Post by fred » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:08 pm

The permission to detect on Crown Foreshore does not require an individual application but it does require you to keep to the rules. ::g
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Re: Crown Estate Foreshore Permit

Post by geoman » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:22 pm

The main problem will be the reporting of items of value such as modern precious metal jewellery. With the many clips on Youtube it seems that this can be a common occurence. If none is reported and the evidence elsewhere suggests that there should be many items then perhaps the Crown Estate may well think again.

Unreported modern finds of value from the foreshore could well provide an avenue for the Police to look into the theft aspect. Another can of worms opened.

The CE are being sensible in allowing pemissive access simply because they could never police the area that they control, but in return they expect compliance with the rules otherwise the hobby will be viewed in a negative way. I have not been on a beach since the early 2000's and the proliferation of holiday maker junk made it a poor experinence so it is not my choice of search area though it is for many so it is up to you to make the system work.

Many years ago i recall that the NCMD helped arrange a permit scheme to detect on land owned by the Forestry Commission. It ran for many years until it was scrutinised by their own archaeological staff when being asked to define the archaeolgical value of their holdings. Result was a realisation that although many permits had been issued the rules were not being followed and archaeological items were not being reported although it was known from anecdotal comment that many were being found. So the scheme was closed and never again will hobby detecting be allowed on their land.

Choice is for you all to make.

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Re: Crown Estate Foreshore Permit

Post by Bootneck45RM » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:41 pm

Thanks for this highly relevant update notification.
Regulation and other changes which take place recently seem to take a heavy toll on many aspects of peoples hobbies and it's becoming easier and easier to fall foul of the "improvements" which are made.
Appreciate the moderators heads up - none of us want to put a bullet either in our own foot or other peoples for that matter.
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Re: Crown Estate Foreshore Permit

Post by Bootneck45RM » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:21 pm

As a follow to my previous it may be interesting and relevant to hear from other MDF members of their experiences and outcomes should items be found and reported via the appropriate channels as suggested.
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Re: Crown Estate Foreshore Permit

Post by Saffron » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:31 pm

geoman wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:22 pm
The main problem will be the reporting of items of value such as modern precious metal jewellery. With the many clips on Youtube it seems that this can be a common occurence. If none is reported and the evidence elsewhere suggests that there should be many items then perhaps the Crown Estate may well think again.

Unreported modern finds of value from the foreshore could well provide an avenue for the Police to look into the theft aspect. Another can of worms opened.

The CE are being sensible in allowing pemissive access simply because they could never police the area that they control, but in return they expect compliance with the rules otherwise the hobby will be viewed in a negative way. I have not been on a beach since the early 2000's and the proliferation of holiday maker junk made it a poor experinence so it is not my choice of search area though it is for many so it is up to you to make the system work.

Many years ago i recall that the NCMD helped arrange a permit scheme to detect on land owned by the Forestry Commission. It ran for many years until it was scrutinised by their own archaeological staff when being asked to define the archaeolgical value of their holdings. Result was a realisation that although many permits had been issued the rules were not being followed and archaeological items were not being reported although it was known from anecdotal comment that many were being found. So the scheme was closed and never again will hobby detecting be allowed on their land.

Choice is for you all to make.
Very many thanks for the heads up about these changes.

Considering the amount of rings that are found on beaches, and the finders delight in showing on verious social media sites at present, it will be interesting to see how many get reported to the police and crown estate office in the future.

What I would fear is that by looking at social media sites, including Youtube as mentioned above, that the crown estate estimate that on average X amount of rings are found a year on average on CE beaches. IF after the introduction of these new rules only 1/100 X are reported to the police and CE but monitoring of social media suggests that significant numbers of finds are being made then they could use this as a reason to ban all metal detecting. eg the kind of scenario mentioned above with the forestry commision.

Hopefully people will follow the new rules, even if they do not like them, and report finds of rings etc, otherwise they might find that beach detecting is banned.

Evan
Last edited by Saffron on Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Crown Estate Foreshore Permit

Post by Oxgirl36 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:35 pm

Shame they haven’t publicised it though. Would the average detectorist know the rules have changed? I doubt it :-L
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Re: Crown Estate Foreshore Permit

Post by paul68 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:22 pm

Does anyone know what rules are in place regarding water, i.e. waist deep, detecting?

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Re: Crown Estate Foreshore Permit

Post by Koala » Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:24 pm

some of the information above is wrong

SSSI can detect. Wrong
SSSI can't detect. Wrong

SSSI vary some you can, some you cant you have do your research and find out for yourself.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=93560#p978868

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Re: Crown Estate Foreshore Permit

Post by Gareth50 » Sat May 18, 2019 9:39 am

I have just been looking at the Crown Estate map around the Suffolk coast.I have two questions, who owns the part of the coast which is not marked in purple on the map and where the purple line is very narrow does this indicate a narrow beach or does it restrict the area which can be searched to close to the surf line. Thanks

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Re: Crown Estate Foreshore Permit

Post by Koala » Sat May 18, 2019 10:18 am

Gareth50 wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 9:39 am
I have just been looking at the Crown Estate map around the Suffolk coast.I have two questions, who owns the part of the coast which is not marked in purple on the map and where the purple line is very narrow does this indicate a narrow beach or does it restrict the area which can be searched to close to the surf line. Thanks
low mean to High mean vary from beach to beach.


steep beaches its much narrower than flat.

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Re: Crown Estate Foreshore Permit

Post by Gareth50 » Sat May 18, 2019 3:47 pm

Thanks Koala for the reply. So if it's purple all is good, providing so official looking signs.

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Re: Crown Estate Foreshore Permit

Post by Saffron » Sat May 18, 2019 6:57 pm

Gareth50 wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 3:47 pm
Thanks Koala for the reply. So if it's purple all is good, providing so official looking signs.
SSSIs are NOT normally marked by "official looking signs.".

So where a beach is Crown Estate you still need to check for SSSIs. As Koala said above SSSI vary some you can detect, some you cant, you have do your research using Magic Maps http://www.magic.gov.uk/ and find out for yourself.

Evan

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Re: Crown Estate Foreshore Permit

Post by Koala » Sat May 18, 2019 7:38 pm

Gareth50 wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 3:47 pm
Thanks Koala for the reply. So if it's purple all is good, providing so official looking signs.

you would think so but no


I don't know Suffolk, but have visited Norfolk. Take Hunstanton not purple and you can detect. Yet Holkham is purple but is administered by Holkham estates and they don't allow detecting


Its very rare a SSSI would effect between High and Low mean but you do have to check for yourself.


The information is out there. But its not all in one place. It is very confusing. Even the SSSI maps aren't accurate and don't match the documents.


hope this isn't putting you off. Its probably easier to ask which beaches near XYZ are worth detecting and see if anyone is forthcoming with some information.

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Re: Crown Estate Foreshore Permit

Post by Gareth50 » Sat May 18, 2019 11:14 pm

Thank you for the further info. I will do some more research, before I set out.

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