Silver seal matrix

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Swany
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Silver seal matrix

Post by Swany » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:39 pm

Story re the finds posted in the finds stories section.

Hopefully this is a silver seal matrix. 12mm at the widest point.

Cheers
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Re: Silver seal matrix

Post by fred » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:45 pm

That definitely is a silver seal matrix. ::g It's not Medieval but I'm not sure what date it actually is. I would have thought late Tudor or Stuart rather than the more normal Georgian.
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Re: Silver seal matrix

Post by SuperRed » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:06 pm

Very nice - what a shame it isn't complete. I have a silver one of (from what I can see) a similar age circa 16c. Well done ::g
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Re: Silver seal matrix

Post by Swany » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:19 pm

fred wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:45 pm
That definitely is a silver seal matrix. ::g It's not Medieval but I'm not sure what date it actually is. I would have thought late Tudor or Stuart rather than the more normal Georgian.
Cheers Fred, do you know of a resource where I can try and research this :D

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Re: Silver seal matrix

Post by THE MOLE » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:22 pm

nice find, id be back looking for the other bit in view of getting it mended ::g

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Re: Silver seal matrix

Post by Raymond » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:33 pm

Nice find well done ::g

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Re: Silver seal matrix

Post by Saki » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:34 pm

Hey Swany, very nice. ::g
Any chance of putting it in wax or bluetack? To get a better idea of those little wheatsheafs or...? And roughly where in Scotland?
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Re: Silver seal matrix

Post by Oxgirl36 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:35 pm

Love these! Rather jealous actually ?::'+
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Re: Silver seal matrix

Post by oldartefact » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:35 pm

Thats very very very nice... well found.
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Re: Silver seal matrix

Post by Wessexlad » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:38 pm

Saki wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:34 pm
Hey Swany, very nice. ::g
Any chance of putting it in wax or bluetack? To get a better idea of those little wheatsheafs or...? And roughly where in Scotland?
I thought they were scallops.
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Re: Silver seal matrix

Post by thefiggis » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:41 pm

These are lovely things and very personal artefacts to find. As I've said many times before*, I don't have a wishlist but they would be at the top of the list if I had one.

Which I don't.


*And will continue to say until I believe it.
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Re: Silver seal matrix

Post by sweepstick47 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:50 pm

Seals are a very personal item and a special find. Silver or Gold examples are both extra special in my book. ::g Well done 'Swany' . Regards ss47
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Re: Silver seal matrix

Post by Swany » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:59 pm

Cheers guy's, was wondering re age of this, my gold ring avatar has pansies, does any one think the seal flowers are pansies, could be 16th century Lizzy I era?

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Re: Silver seal matrix

Post by fred » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:01 pm

Swany wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:19 pm
fred wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:45 pm
That definitely is a silver seal matrix. ::g It's not Medieval but I'm not sure what date it actually is. I would have thought late Tudor or Stuart rather than the more normal Georgian.
Cheers Fred, do you know of a resource where I can try and research this :D
DiOZ is always a good resource for all things heraldic! :D For me it is just a case of either knowing what it is or searching online based upon what you can see and what you think that you know about it.

PS I think that they are scallops too and I would be perfectly happy with it dating to Liz I. ! ::g
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Re: Silver seal matrix

Post by Saki » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:16 pm

Swany wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:59 pm
Cheers guy's, was wondering re age of this, my gold ring avatar has pansies, does any one think the seal flowers are pansies, could be 16th century Lizzy I era?
Would actually agree these are scallops (escallops) and pansies.

The scallop, was popularized by pilgrims travelling to the shrine of St. James in Spain, becoming a symbol of pilgrimage. The shrine is in Santiago de Compostela.

Pansy [Heart's Ease] ~ love, good fortune, freedom of thought and reflection.
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Re: Silver seal matrix

Post by oldartefact » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:30 pm

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Re: Silver seal matrix

Post by Swany » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:38 pm

oldartefact wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:30 pm
forget-me-not???? http://www.flowermeaning.com/forget-me- ... r-meaning/
Thanks oldartefact, you may be on to something there, great info, going to research all of this tomorrow ::g

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Re: Silver seal matrix

Post by fred » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:39 pm

The flower things are known as cinquefoils. :D
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Re: Silver seal matrix

Post by Swany » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:44 pm

fred wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:39 pm
The flower things are known as cinquefoils. :D
For goodness sake Fred info overdose now ::g

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Re: Silver seal matrix

Post by Fusion » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:08 pm

I agree with the "escallop" suggestion, I thought the flowers may be roses. Based on that, one possible ID is the Graham Clan, example here:
http://www.scotclans.com/scottish-clans ... t-of-arms/

The 3 roses indicate Montrose.

Alternatives to Graham would include Graeme.

The initial I will likely represent a J, there's a few 'James' in the Graham Clan:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Gra ... f_Montrose

Mr. Swany will know the findspot, so may be able to find local info to back up/refute this.

Nice find, a shame it's broken, though you have the important business end, which is good.
Last edited by Fusion on Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
:(

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Re: Silver seal matrix

Post by Mud Max » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:15 pm

That's a lovely little find, very well done.
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Re: Silver seal matrix

Post by Swany » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:19 pm

Fusion wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:08 pm
I agree with the "escallop" suggestion, I thought the flowers may be roses. Based on that, one possible ID is the Graham Clan, example here:
http://www.scotclans.com/scottish-clans ... t-of-arms/

The 3 roses indicate Montrose.

Alternatives to Graham would include Graeme.

Mr. Swany will know the findspot, so may be able to find local info to back up/refute this.

Nice find, a shame it's broken, though you have the important business end, which is good.
Brilliant fusion. You are onto something. That name rings a bell based on research prior to obtaining this permission.

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Re: Silver seal matrix

Post by Saki » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:40 pm

Fusion wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:08 pm
I agree with the "escallop" suggestion, I thought the flowers may be roses. Based on that, one possible ID is the Graham Clan, example here:
http://www.scotclans.com/scottish-clans ... t-of-arms/

The 3 roses indicate Montrose.

Alternatives to Graham would include Graeme.

The initial I will likely represent a J, there's a few 'James' in the Graham Clan:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Gra ... f_Montrose

Mr. Swany will know the findspot, so may be able to find local info to back up/refute this.

Nice find, a shame it's broken, though you have the important business end, which is good.
Just been down the same road Fusion

The Pansie is very rare in heraldry so I'm going with the rose that in turn points to the Marquees of Graham and Buchanan. In Fairbairns book, there are 185 Grahams and only a couple with Escallops.
This is very similiar to the personal coat of the Duke of Montrose. But I'm with Fusion that bit is a Graham
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Re: Silver seal matrix

Post by Fusion » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:24 pm

Regarding the scallops, I found this info:
" His Grace, the 8th Duke of Montrose, was the Honored Guest at the San Diego Highland Games in 1997. The following are a few statements given in his address to the Clan Graham Society:

"On the Graham Coat of Arms are three scallop shells. These represent pilgrimages of three Graham ancestors. The pilgrimages were made by medieval knights to the shrine Santiago de Campostila. Around 1230-1260, pilgrimages were made by two of the senior Dalkeith branches of the Grahams and this was marked by the inclusion of the scallop shells on the Graham Coat of Arms. Shells were used to collect alms for the poor.

"More direct evidence has since been found of the sixth title holder of the Graham of Montrose family. Patrick Graham made two pilgrimages in 1352 and 1361. Official records show he was issued certificates of safe conduct through England."


Taken from :
https://clangrahamsociety.org/abouttheg ... html#badge

[Also, a bit of a guess, but ISG may be James Stewart Graham.]
:(

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Re: Silver seal matrix

Post by Swany » Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:00 pm

Saki wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:34 pm
Hey Swany, very nice. ::g
Any chance of putting it in wax or bluetack? To get a better idea of those little wheatsheafs or...? And roughly where in Scotland?
Hi Saki, blu tak sourced. Looks good :D
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Re: Silver seal matrix

Post by thefiggis » Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:20 pm

That impression is as crisp as an early spring morning, lightly covered in frost and a chill easterly breeze being slowly undone by a low-lying and strengthening sun.

Load of twaddle.

Really nice impression, that ::g
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Re: Silver seal matrix

Post by Saki » Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:23 pm

Thanks Swany. Would Love to find me a seal. That one is really nice.
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Re: Silver seal matrix

Post by silversabrebri » Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:28 pm

very nice find

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