Advice on my 1700’s gold ring

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TheMichaelH
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Advice on my 1700’s gold ring

Post by TheMichaelH » Wed May 16, 2018 1:17 pm

Hello all, I finally found my first proper bit of old(ish) gold this weekend 😊

I am after a bit of advice, it is dated 1745 and has a name and date on the outside, it also would have had a lovely black inlay but most of that has now fallen out.

Firstly as it is under 300 years old am I correct is saying it is not classed as treasure and does not need to be declared?

Secondly the name and date refers to the date someone died, after doing some research I have managed to locate this persons grave stone in a local church and have purchased a copy of their will where this ring is also mentioned.

Normally I would keep this, however with the historical value I would possibly consider selling or ideally return to the family as it is probably priceless to them.

Just wanted peoples thoughts really, haven’t pictured the name or date of death for obvious reasons. Also if anyone could recommend somewhere to get this valued and tested that would also be very helpful.

No hallmarks*

Found on cultivated land, 4-5” deep, xp deus 9”HF round coil

Many thanks,

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Last edited by TheMichaelH on Wed May 16, 2018 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Advice on my 1700’s gold ring

Post by MLDetect » Wed May 16, 2018 1:24 pm

What an interesting piece you now have with the will and ring connecting.
I would personally consider keeping it, I definitely would not sell it as I think its amazing.

I would be tempted to locate the family and return it but if they are not interested in history or their family history they will probably just sell it, they almost definitely wouldn't have heard of the deceased.

Having said that, if someone returned a ring to my from my 9x great granddad (which is what were are roughly talking about it) I would be absolutely amazed and eternally grateful.

Well done on the find and research , be interested to know peoples thoughts.

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Re: Advice on my 1700’s gold ring

Post by chip » Wed May 16, 2018 1:46 pm

That is a beautiful ring.
If you do return it, it will make for a great feel good story for the local papers ::g
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Re: Advice on my 1700’s gold ring

Post by sweepstick47 » Wed May 16, 2018 1:47 pm

It's a beautiful ring and it's especially important as it bears direct interest in terms of local history.
I certainly agree that returning it to the family would be the best and most appropriate (and most generous) of the options open to you. It is something that is quite likely to create a good deal of local/public interest.

The reward in doing so, will outweigh any financial potential were it to be sold - (in my opinion)
Thanks for sharing. ::g Regards ss47
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Re: Advice on my 1700’s gold ring

Post by TheMichaelH » Wed May 16, 2018 2:28 pm

After doing some reasearch is is a memorial ring (hence the black inlay) have only seen a couple online.

After doing some research this person was quite a well known merchant at the time and his grand daughter was also rather important in the stone industry, making some of the lion head statues which are still in London today!
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Re: Advice on my 1700’s gold ring

Post by Koala » Wed May 16, 2018 2:36 pm


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Re: Advice on my 1700’s gold ring

Post by knotalot » Wed May 16, 2018 3:10 pm

Beautiful ::g Wish i could have said i found one like that but alas the one i found was made of Pinchbeck :( Well found ::g Nice piece of History there and good work done on research too ::g

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Re: Advice on my 1700’s gold ring

Post by Quoin » Wed May 16, 2018 4:59 pm

It belongs to the landowner or partly to you depending on the agreement you have with the landowner. It would belong to the person who lost it if you knew who lost it not who once owned it.

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Re: Advice on my 1700’s gold ring

Post by TheNCMD » Wed May 16, 2018 5:12 pm

To be Treasure a precious metal object needs to be over 300 years old.

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Re: Advice on my 1700’s gold ring

Post by Koala » Wed May 16, 2018 5:38 pm

Quoin wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 4:59 pm
It belongs to the landowner or partly to you depending on the agreement you have with the landowner. It would belong to the person who lost it if you knew who lost it not who once owned it.
There was a medieval ring found on an estate within the last year or so. Went as treasure. The owner of the estate fought the process in court and claimed ownership. After documented evidence of the inscription was provided it was ruled the rightful owner was in fact the current descendant.

This Is less than 300 years so not treasure. But the descendent can be traced.

That's how I see it anyhow.

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Re: Advice on my 1700’s gold ring

Post by Saki » Wed May 16, 2018 5:38 pm

I would be in full agreement with SS47. This will draw a lot of interest. I would agree that this would be better given to thr family. But would hate to think of them being uninterested and sell it.
A better approach may be the "find/research" story to a local museum and involve them. Thus making it somewhat public. Almost safeguarding that the ring stays within the family/area. Also, it stops this piece of beautiful jewllery going back "in the ground- or drawer"And no-one getting to see it
It is a very beautiful piece
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Re: Advice on my 1700’s gold ring

Post by Rhumours » Wed May 16, 2018 5:59 pm

If you don't want the ring yourself ... pursue the descendant option. Yes it would be a kindness but it's 50/50 if they would be worthy of that kindness. It is a piece of treceable history which you have uncovered. Personally I'd not involve descendants .... it has the potential to sour the experience for you. Enjoy it. Enjoy the journey of it. Which will.encourage you to pass on positive experiences. Leave it at that. I respect what previous posters have put but it is history not sentimental history. Which I'd look at entirely differently. I doubt many old land owners would want tractor parts back or old coins dropped by reletives.

As for getting it examined ... many jewellers will have access to goldsmith's and workshops that will be a be able to do that for you. A valuation which is usually done for insurance purposes used to come with a 10% of the value charge. Not sure what it is now. But spanking new hand made rings are being sold for the price of the scrap weight. My mate was selling all his hand made bits which we both found disgusting but it is what it is.

Michael Spiers if you have one near did have workshops in house and a good reputation to boot. But don't know where you are. Samuals. ... what's that song .... walk on by etc.
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Re: Advice on my 1700’s gold ring

Post by sweepstick47 » Wed May 16, 2018 6:23 pm

Quote: "it also would have had a lovely black inlay but most of that has now fallen out".

It's likely that is the remains of 'Niello' (silver) inlay work. ::g Rergards ss47
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Re: Advice on my 1700’s gold ring

Post by fred » Wed May 16, 2018 6:34 pm

Lovely item. ::g First of all try and see if you actually can trace any decendants.

If you want a valuation don't use a high street jeweller for an item like that, they are unlikely to have the knowlege or experience to do a proper job. Go to a specialist auction house or a firm like Warski for advice. You should be able to get a rough idea of value by surfing around the internet although the individuals circumstances will dictate exactly how desireable the ring is to a collector. :D
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Re: Advice on my 1700’s gold ring

Post by fred » Wed May 16, 2018 6:35 pm

sweepstick47 wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 6:23 pm
Quote: "it also would have had a lovely black inlay but most of that has now fallen out".

It's likely that is the remains of 'Niello' (silver) inlay work. ::g Rergards ss47
I can see from the picture that the inlay was ordinary enamel. :D Niello can be applied to other metals but it usually used found decorating silver. ::g
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Re: Advice on my 1700’s gold ring

Post by jcmaloney » Wed May 16, 2018 6:50 pm

Back to the family and an article for the local paper/magazines....... karma tends to work like that. ::g
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Re: Advice on my 1700’s gold ring

Post by TheMichaelH » Wed May 16, 2018 10:13 pm

Thanks to everyone for their input and for being so helpful!

I intend to do more research and try to locate the immediate family, failing this I will then contact a local museum (which already contains items relating directly to this family)

If any profit should be made it will be split 50/50 with the land owner as agreed, however I would be happier for the local people to see the story behind this and be able to enjoy its history, rather than it be sold at auction to the highest bidder and sit in a box.

Will update/re-post with future information in regards to this lovely ring.
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Re: Advice on my 1700’s gold ring

Post by sweepstick47 » Thu May 17, 2018 1:06 am

Dependent upon the outcome and after obtaining the necessary consent, you may like to consider an article in one of the hobby's monthly magazines. ::g ss47
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Re: Advice on my 1700’s gold ring

Post by Quoin » Thu May 17, 2018 8:43 am

Have you asked the land owner what he wants to do?

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Re: Advice on my 1700’s gold ring

Post by shaggybfc » Thu May 17, 2018 9:57 am

It's a lovely ring and a great story. ::g
If it was me, I'd only look to reunite it with the person's descendants if they still lived locally and I though that they would appreciate the sentiment. If not, I'd keep it, as long as it's with the landowner's agreement. It would make a great article for the MD magazines though - I'd keep it away from the press - it could encourage unwanted attention.
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Re: Advice on my 1700’s gold ring

Post by gormer » Mon May 28, 2018 5:57 pm

Now I'm not a detector myself (I just lurk because I'm a Yank that loves English material history and archaeology and got a little obsessive over Detectorists and Time Team), but I do collect antiques--cased photographs, specifically. Sometimes they are identified, and I do what I can to track down the family through Ancestry to let them know, as I'd be thrilled to bits if someone ever did the same for me. Once, I bought a photograph that I just loved - had some real artistic merit and cost me a bit, but because I love a puzzle I reached out to the family to try to make a genealogical connection...well, they were over the moon and begged me to have it. I let it go and figured karma owed me a hand - sure enough, my next flea market find ended up being a $1500 Civil War photo that paid for my summer holiday. I'm not saying those two things are connected...but I'm not saying they're NOT, either! :)

That is a gorgeous ring!

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Re: Advice on my 1700’s gold ring

Post by oldartefact » Mon May 28, 2018 6:50 pm

I missed this post ... but what a fantastic ring. I was just wondering whether we could have some more photo's because as they stand at the current time, we are missing the main event. (edit .. I dont think that showing the name and date of death would have any adverse consequences) I am totally sure that the 3 pics a day rule wont apply to such a brilliant find. Congratulations on a brilliant find.
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Re: Advice on my 1700’s gold ring

Post by thefiggis » Mon May 28, 2018 9:47 pm

oldartefact wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 6:50 pm
I am totally sure that the 3 pics a day rule wont apply to such a brilliant find.
4 pics a day rule and yes it would, even for such a lovely thing ;)
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Re: Advice on my 1700’s gold ring

Post by LE.JAG » Mon May 28, 2018 10:35 pm

wonderful discovery, that's what we call a
mourning ring ?

the marking is often embedded in black enamel

really beautiful ::g ::g

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Re: Advice on my 1700’s gold ring

Post by Mick » Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:12 pm

How do we know the last wearer of the ring was indeed the person who's initials are on said ring? Without a living owner coming forward or any descendant who can substantiate it was indeed lost and not sold, passed on or given away, etc, then I personally feel ownership belongs to the finder and/or landowner; unless it's treasure or of significant historical importance.

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