Vesica Seal

Please post any finds here that you wish help with identification.
Post Reply
FULLTIMER
Posts: 1362
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:30 am
Location: NORWICH
Has thanked: 58 times
Been thanked: 85 times

Vesica Seal

Post by FULLTIMER » Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:54 pm

Found this on a club dig yesterday it is a very welcome first for me obviously I know it's a copper alloy Vesica seal but if anyone has clue what it depicts or can read / decipher the legend that would be brilliant.
Image

Image

Image

I'll try and get an impression at some point and post another picture,it was found on a club dig near Beccles using the Minelab Safari in all metal, ferrous tones just minus 10 notched out.


MINELAB SAFARI & RUTUS ALTER 71 teamed up with DETEKNIX WIRELESS HEADPHONES

Fusion
Posts: 4452
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:47 am
Location: Herts
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 210 times

Re: Vesica Seal

Post by Fusion » Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:46 pm

The central image appears to depict 'Madonna and Child'.
The inscription may start S' IOhIS .... seal of John ..., it will be interesting to see if the impression helps the interpretation.

Edit: after another squint it's looking something like
S' IOhISIVS ETERINGTVIN

Any places near the findspot named Etherington etc ?
Last edited by Fusion on Mon Sep 03, 2018 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

FULLTIMER
Posts: 1362
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:30 am
Location: NORWICH
Has thanked: 58 times
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: Vesica Seal

Post by FULLTIMER » Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:40 pm

After looking at a few examples I think you could be right re the central image, hopefully more will come to light with an impression. I'll try and get some plasticine or something tomorrow and give it a go.
MINELAB SAFARI & RUTUS ALTER 71 teamed up with DETEKNIX WIRELESS HEADPHONES

tigerseeker
Posts: 164
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 8:52 pm
Location: Castleford
Has thanked: 90 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: Vesica Seal

Post by tigerseeker » Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:43 pm

Nice find congratulations!! ::g ::g
Garrett Euroace
Garrett Propointer II
Garrett Z-Lynk wireless headphones
Determination

FULLTIMER
Posts: 1362
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:30 am
Location: NORWICH
Has thanked: 58 times
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: Vesica Seal

Post by FULLTIMER » Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:22 am

I made a few impressions before the seal went off to the FLO may be of some help in identifying or finding out what the legend says,

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

fusion I couldn't find a place called Etherington anywhere near the find spot ,could it be a surname
MINELAB SAFARI & RUTUS ALTER 71 teamed up with DETEKNIX WIRELESS HEADPHONES

Fusion
Posts: 4452
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:47 am
Location: Herts
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 210 times

Re: Vesica Seal

Post by Fusion » Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:12 am

A truly polychromatic display, and surprisingly good impressions, too.
It now looks like:

S' IOhIS D' SETERINGTVILL / ..GTVIN

Seal of John of Seteringtuill.

User avatar
littleboot
Posts: 1886
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:22 pm
Location: Normandy (the cider and cheese area)
Has thanked: 314 times
Been thanked: 694 times

Re: Vesica Seal

Post by littleboot » Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:07 pm

Nice seal! It doesn't look like the Madonna and Child....more like a monk/saint to me.
There loos to be a head in profile at the bottom of the seal ...which I wonder if refers to John the Baptist (having his head chopped off and all) and a riff on the name of the owner.

Whatever....I now have a nostalgic desire to play with Plasticine. I always loved the smell. And the nice new colours before they all got mixed up into a brown/greeny grey. :))
GMP, Tesoro Invincible, wellies.

FULLTIMER
Posts: 1362
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:30 am
Location: NORWICH
Has thanked: 58 times
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: Vesica Seal

Post by FULLTIMER » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:35 pm

Fusion wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:12 am
A truly polychromatic display, and surprisingly good impressions, too.
It now looks like:

S' IOhIS D' SETERINGTVILL / ..GTVIN

Seal of John of Seteringtuill.
HI, thanks for your efforts , I havn't found a place anywhere near the find spot (near Beccles ,Suffolk) with a name anything like that, after trying various spellings nearest I got was Seterington in Yorkshire.
MINELAB SAFARI & RUTUS ALTER 71 teamed up with DETEKNIX WIRELESS HEADPHONES

FULLTIMER
Posts: 1362
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:30 am
Location: NORWICH
Has thanked: 58 times
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: Vesica Seal

Post by FULLTIMER » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:47 pm

littleboot wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:07 pm
Nice seal! It doesn't look like the Madonna and Child....more like a monk/saint to me.
There loos to be a head in profile at the bottom of the seal ...which I wonder if refers to John the Baptist (having his head chopped off and all) and a riff on the name of the owner.

Whatever....I now have a nostalgic desire to play with Plasticine. I always loved the smell. And the nice new colours before they all got mixed up into a brown/greeny grey. :))
I can see what you mean about the central image as I found similar images online , with fusions original idea of Etherington I did find that surname associated with merchant tailors, and the merchant tailors hall had associations with the fraternity of John the Baptist. Still the search goes on, as for the plasticine I have to say it didn't smell much ,not the smell that I remember from years ago
MINELAB SAFARI & RUTUS ALTER 71 teamed up with DETEKNIX WIRELESS HEADPHONES

User avatar
watermouse
Posts: 296
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 3:15 am
Location: Wiltshire
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 167 times

Re: Vesica Seal

Post by watermouse » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:25 pm

Yes, I am thirsty.its a rite of passage..or very simaler


it relates Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be filled" (Matthew 5:6).

its sort of saying there righteousness thirst for it like water...the wine im guessing seal is possibly from
Last edited by watermouse on Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:35 pm, edited 6 times in total.

Fusion
Posts: 4452
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:47 am
Location: Herts
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 210 times

Re: Vesica Seal

Post by Fusion » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:50 pm

I also noticed in my searching that Settrington in Yorkshire was previously known as Seterington.

This tome about Beverley Minster, Yorks in the 1300's mentions Johannes de Setrington ( = Iohis )
https://archive.org/stream/memorialsofb ... /#page/100
https://archive.org/stream/memorialsofb ... c_djvu.txt

This document links the Earl of Norfolk to Seterington, Yorks:
http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH ... DIEVAL.htm

"JOHN Bigod. “Rogerus le Bigod comes Norfolciæ” donated property to Tintern Abbey, Monmouthshire by charter dated 4 Aug 1301, witnessed by ”domino Johanne le Bygod fratre meo, domino Johanne de Bygod de Stocton…”. His brother settled on him, his wife and two sons, the manor of Settrington, Yorkshire 25 Apr 1302. An inspeximus dated 4 Mar 1303 records that “Roger le Bygod earl of Norfolk and marshal of England” gave “the manor of Seterington, co. York” to “John le Bygod of Stokton knight and Isabel his wife...remainder to John son of the said John and Isabel...remainder to Roger son of the said John and Isabel”.

Stocton/Stokton is modern-day Stockton, Norfolk, only 3 miles north of Beccles.

And from here:
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/History_ ... k/Volume_5
"..... John Bigod, his brother and heir, inheriting only the manors of Stockton in Norfolk, and Seterington in Yorkshire, and a few more estates.."

More stuff linking the Bigod family with Settrington:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... =1&ct=clnk

and
http://washington.ancestryregister.com/BIGOD00006.htm

If the seal is from Yorkshire it's a long way from home, but it's plausible.

.. and it could read D' SETERINGTVNE .... there's no obvious horizontal bar on the first N, so no reason to expect one on the second one.
Last edited by Fusion on Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:56 am, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
watermouse
Posts: 296
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 3:15 am
Location: Wiltshire
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 167 times

Re: Vesica Seal

Post by watermouse » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:22 am

it keeps falling short right at the end of translating it..im miffed lol there must one letter wrong im putting in

User avatar
watermouse
Posts: 296
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 3:15 am
Location: Wiltshire
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 167 times

Re: Vesica Seal

Post by watermouse » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:25 am

Fusion wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:50 pm
I also noticed in my searching that Settrington in Yorkshire was previously known as Seterington, a fellow called Thomas of Seterington was mentioned in 1306.
This tome about Beverley Minster, Yorks in the 1300's mentions Johannes de Setrington ( = Iohis )
https://archive.org/stream/memorialsofb ... /#page/100
https://archive.org/stream/memorialsofb ... c_djvu.txt

If the seal is from Yorks it is a long way from home, but it's possible.
.. and it could read D' SETERINGTVNE .... there's no obvious horizontal bar on the first N, so no reason to expect one on the second one.
I saw that earlier..but went latin religious quote route.and I was never good at latin..obviously lol

FULLTIMER
Posts: 1362
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:30 am
Location: NORWICH
Has thanked: 58 times
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: Vesica Seal

Post by FULLTIMER » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:35 am

Many thanks for every ones efforts I have also found another possible connection with Setterington Yorks, and Norfolk / Suffolk in the Bigod family several of which were known as Sir John of Setterington now that would be nice.
MINELAB SAFARI & RUTUS ALTER 71 teamed up with DETEKNIX WIRELESS HEADPHONES

Post Reply

Return to “Identification of Finds”