Brooch ID and definitely one for Allectus

Please post any finds here that you wish help with identification.
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Nil
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Brooch ID and definitely one for Allectus

Post by Nil » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:53 pm

Not seen this type of brooch before, just in the top there is a small red enamel. Good luck Allectus with this one, my first thought was that it was a button nearly went in the rubbish pocket 😂
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Re: Brooch ID and definitely one for Allectus

Post by Allectus » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:00 pm

Mark Antony. ::g

A ;)
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Re: Brooch ID and definitely one for Allectus

Post by Allectus » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:06 pm

Allectus wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:00 pm
Mark Antony. ::g

A ;)
That's her indoors(Fulvia) on the obverse.....https://www.vcoins.com/en/stores/apollo ... fault.aspx ::g
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Re: Brooch ID and definitely one for Allectus

Post by alloverover » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:07 pm

Lovely Roman slipper/sandle brooch ::g

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Re: Brooch ID and definitely one for Allectus

Post by alloverover » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:08 pm

alloverover wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:07 pm
Lovely Roman slipper/sandle brooch ::g
Ive not seen a silvered one before, very nice find ::g

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Re: Brooch ID and definitely one for Allectus

Post by bazzerhut » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:16 pm

That brooch is a beautiful and unusual find, well done.

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Re: Brooch ID and definitely one for Allectus

Post by Nil » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:01 pm

Thanks everyone very much appreciated.

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Re: Brooch ID and definitely one for Allectus

Post by Oxgirl36 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:08 pm

Lovely finds ::g
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Re: Brooch ID and definitely one for Allectus

Post by fred » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:56 pm

That's an amazing brooch! :D
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Re: Brooch ID and definitely one for Allectus

Post by Kritika » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:01 pm

I agree that brooch is stunning, well found ::g
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Re: Brooch ID and definitely one for Allectus

Post by Cantiaci » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:12 pm

Two amazing finds! Well
Done indeed!! ::g
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Re: Brooch ID and definitely one for Allectus

Post by Lowland » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:50 am

Wow ::g
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.....................deeper bliss......................

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Re: Brooch ID and definitely one for Allectus

Post by SuperRed » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:43 am

That is a really lovely example Nil. One thing that has puzzled me about these sandal brooches is the 'loop' at the end. I found one last year with a knop at the top, but without the 'eye', and I have seen a couple of others with either nothing at the end or with an 'eye' like yours. The obvious conclusion is dual purpose (brooch or necklace), but surely it wouldn't hang well with the pin on the back?

Any ideas?

Brad
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Re: Brooch ID and definitely one for Allectus

Post by Incognito » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:03 pm

SuperRed wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:43 am
One thing that has puzzled me about these sandal brooches is the 'loop' at the end. I found one last year with a knop at the top, but without the 'eye', and I have seen a couple of others with either nothing at the end or with an 'eye' like yours. The obvious conclusion is dual purpose (brooch or necklace), but surely it wouldn't hang well with the pin on the back?

Any ideas?

Brad
"It is probably that a beaded string or a chain was suspended from it and/or attached to another, similar brooch which was worn on the other shoulder." (wiki)

Lovely find.

::g

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Re: Brooch ID and definitely one for Allectus

Post by Dave The Slave » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:24 pm

Would normally comment on the coin, however never seen a brooch like that before.
Two great finds.
Well done, ::g
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Re: Brooch ID and definitely one for Allectus

Post by SuperRed » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:28 pm

Incognito wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:03 pm
SuperRed wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:43 am
One thing that has puzzled me about these sandal brooches is the 'loop' at the end. I found one last year with a knop at the top, but without the 'eye', and I have seen a couple of others with either nothing at the end or with an 'eye' like yours. The obvious conclusion is dual purpose (brooch or necklace), but surely it wouldn't hang well with the pin on the back?

Any ideas?

Brad
"It is probably that a beaded string or a chain was suspended from it and/or attached to another, similar brooch which was worn on the other shoulder." (wiki)

Lovely find.

::g
Thanks Incognito. I did research this a bit (on the PAS/books), but obviously not enough.

It still doesn't explain why some have the knop (but without the 'eye') that mine has (https://www.metaldetectingforum.co.uk/v ... ic#p933474). Maybe that has something to do with the status/wealth of the individual... The one that Nil's has posted is far more luxurious than mine.
Brad

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Re: Brooch ID and definitely one for Allectus

Post by Incognito » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:15 pm

SuperRed wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:28 pm
Incognito wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:03 pm
SuperRed wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:43 am
One thing that has puzzled me about these sandal brooches is the 'loop' at the end. I found one last year with a knop at the top, but without the 'eye', and I have seen a couple of others with either nothing at the end or with an 'eye' like yours. The obvious conclusion is dual purpose (brooch or necklace), but surely it wouldn't hang well with the pin on the back?

Any ideas?

Brad
"It is probably that a beaded string or a chain was suspended from it and/or attached to another, similar brooch which was worn on the other shoulder." (wiki)

Lovely find.

::g
Thanks Incognito. I did research this a bit (on the PAS/books), but obviously not enough.

It still doesn't explain why some have the knop (but without the 'eye') that mine has (https://www.metaldetectingforum.co.uk/v ... ic#p933474). Maybe that has something to do with the status/wealth of the individual... The one that Nil's has posted is far more luxurious than mine.
I don't know, maybe they kept a certain form even when made to be worn without any embellishments ?

A youtube video with ID sq3w6nZHDOw called

Broaching the Subject: Hybridised cultures behind the Bird and Sandal fibulae from northern Britain

has an interesting look. The presenter is still involved in that field, maybe she would know?

::g

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Re: Brooch ID and definitely one for Allectus

Post by Incognito » Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:25 am

SuperRed wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:28 pm
Incognito wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:03 pm
SuperRed wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:43 am
One thing that has puzzled me about these sandal brooches is the 'loop' at the end. I found one last year with a knop at the top, but without the 'eye', and I have seen a couple of others with either nothing at the end or with an 'eye' like yours. The obvious conclusion is dual purpose (brooch or necklace), but surely it wouldn't hang well with the pin on the back?

Any ideas?

Brad
"It is probably that a beaded string or a chain was suspended from it and/or attached to another, similar brooch which was worn on the other shoulder." (wiki)

Lovely find.

::g
Thanks Incognito. I did research this a bit (on the PAS/books), but obviously not enough.

It still doesn't explain why some have the knop (but without the 'eye') that mine has (https://www.metaldetectingforum.co.uk/v ... ic#p933474). Maybe that has something to do with the status/wealth of the individual... The one that Nil's has posted is far more luxurious than mine.
Also remotely possible is association with Roman collegia (there was a shoe making one). I just follow where research online leads me, so this ended up with the following, but it's a bit of a heavy explanation and not sure at what point, if any, there is an interrelationship :

https://lafayettelodge199.com/2018/03/2 ... e-slipper/

http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/collegia.html

https://gnosticwarrior.com/the-roman-co ... eries.html

::g

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Re: Brooch ID and definitely one for Allectus

Post by Nil » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:49 am

Thanks everyone, my own opinion on the loop at the end SuperRed is possibly a dual measure that once the pin was broken they could then still use it. The high status of the brooch is from the site it comes from a large spring.

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Re: Brooch ID and definitely one for Allectus

Post by SuperRed » Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:51 pm

Nil wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:49 am
Thanks everyone, my own opinion on the loop at the end SuperRed is possibly a dual measure that once the pin was broken they could then still use it. The high status of the brooch is from the site it comes from a large spring.
That was my only conclusion initially Nil. I've seen a few of these in the 'flesh' and others online. All pretty much the same design other than differences in the knop/loop. Maybe a category for brooch/pendant?

Brad
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