Lovely enamelled mount for ID

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zoolander0110
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Lovely enamelled mount for ID

Post by zoolander0110 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:40 pm

Interesting enamelled mount for ID. Found about 10 inches down on ploughed land with an XP deus. My best guess would be some sort of horse mount from around the 1600’s but I’ve never seen anything similar. Shows a knight prancing over a slain soldier with some sort of gun at the bottom. The blue and white enamel is lovely!
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Re: Lovely enamelled mount for ID

Post by alloverover » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:40 am

Rearing horseman trampling enemy, but is that a petronel beneath or is that just a coincidence ? ::g

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Re: Lovely enamelled mount for ID

Post by fred » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:50 am

I don't think that is a Roman or Medieval style. It certainly does look like a petronel so I'd reckon 17thC mount too. :D
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Re: Lovely enamelled mount for ID

Post by Lowland » Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:21 am

Wow that’s a cool find ::g
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Re: Lovely enamelled mount for ID

Post by Oxgirl36 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:16 am

Nice thing ::g
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Re: Lovely enamelled mount for ID

Post by oldartefact » Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:40 pm

Could this be a civil war item ... ??
Looks like the rider maybe wearing a crown???
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Re: Lovely enamelled mount for ID

Post by Phil2401 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:46 pm

And is that a fleur-de-lys at the bottom? Very nice and very intriguing ::g

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Re: Lovely enamelled mount for ID

Post by sweepstick47 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:16 pm

Hello zoolander0110, That's a very nice piece indeed nicely showing off the original enamelling.
I think your date is spot-on too. As alloverover has indicated, the gun appears to be in the style of the French Hunting gun (Petronel) in use during the 1600/1700. I love to see anything still bearing some enamelling. Well done ::g Regards ss47
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Re: Lovely enamelled mount for ID

Post by Phil2401 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:42 pm

Assuming it is harness - related, the fitting on the back suggests that it would have been fitted on a horizontal strap by means of two pins, possibly with pride of place on the browband of the bridle? Just a thought.

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Re: Lovely enamelled mount for ID

Post by oldartefact » Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:13 pm

I am thinking that this is an important find... it has many elements. Surely one for your FLO.
Its unusual, its old, and it tells a story .. many thanks for posting.
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Re: Lovely enamelled mount for ID

Post by zoolander0110 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:18 pm

Thanks for all your thoughts! Looking at it again it looks more like the Prince of Wales's feathers at the bottom!! That would fit in with the colour scheme of white and blue.

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Re: Lovely enamelled mount for ID

Post by watermouse » Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:21 am

Ive been looking at possibilities

1st William of Orange and victory over king James II at the battle of the Boyne 1690.but that's if that's not fluer de lyes on the brooch as both James and William wasn't a prince of Wales

2nd Duke of Marlborough victory at the Battle of Blenheim.1704..if person on horse is wearing red.and not king.Churchill was fighting on behalf of William at Blenhiem

the battle of the boyne against james was going to take place at Salisbury plain but armies didn't engage ...and john Churchill duke of marlborough then switched sides to William......later james and William would meet in Ireland at the Boyne.

3rd king james II victory over john scott duke of Monmouth at sedgemoor 1685...he himself didn't take part..

Churchill,king james II and and William have been pictured on a rearing horse..in various images.

4th Charles the Second ...john scotts father and James the seconds elder brother was the prince of WALES......and so was his father Charles 1st.
Charles the second was cousin of louis XIV and sold him Dunkirk....... England was briefly in the Triple Alliance (Sweden and Dutch republic) though I doubt it relates to that..as he entered the treaty of Dover with louis in 1670

6th Charles the first he fought france in the Anglo-French war 1627 to 29 and sent George Villiers !st duke of Buckingham to lead on his behalf however it was mainly action at sea.and England lost..

7th George 1st who followed William and Anne fought the 1715 jacobite uprising ...the Scots and was to bring James Francis Edward Stuart and they was supported by the kingdom of France however he wasn't a prince of wales....but his son George the second was ..not only that he was the last British king to fight in Battle ...which was during the War of Austrian Succession...and England in it fought against the French...he fought at the Battle of Dettingen ...which Britain won..George also had his son with him....Prince William, Duke of Cumberland...who would go to Scotland and defeat Bonnie Prince Charlie at Culloden in 1746 it was his nephew who would become king in 1760...George the third...then you start closing in on Waterloo,french revolution ,Napoleon ect.

it seems that George the Second could be who it is however William III is bugging me as its similar to images found on Orange parade banners in Ireland.

very interesting find..be great to know if you find out more...good luck ::g ::g ::g

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Re: Lovely enamelled mount for ID

Post by fred » Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:43 am

The petronel was old technology by the time of The Restoration and absolutely archaic by the time the German Georges turned up. For me this mount is likely to either be pre1700, possibly by half a century or more, or it is backwards looking. If it's the latter then William III becomes likely.

I have also been trying to make sense of the symbols on each side of the horseman. I think that they might be colours with a triumph of arms (i.e. captured weapons) below them. If so then somebody who had won a Victory at some time. Assuming that it's a king then William III would be my favorite but Charles I would be possible (have a look at the figure on his halfcrowns).

If it is a Prince of Wales there are a few more possibilities and if it is a General there are loads. :D
Last edited by fred on Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lovely enamelled mount for ID

Post by Ladybird66 » Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:58 am

On a lighter note. Just so we can all see how it might have looked, whoever it belonged to, here’s a pic of a modern reconstruction one.

Isn’t it preeeeety :D
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Re: Lovely enamelled mount for ID

Post by oldartefact » Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:07 am

watermouse wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:21 am
Ive been looking at possibilities

1st William of Orange and victory over king James II at the battle of the Boyne 1690.but that's if that's not fluer de lyes on the brooch as both James and William wasn't a prince of Wales

2nd Duke of Marlborough victory at the Battle of Blenheim.1704..if person on horse is wearing red.and not king.Churchill was fighting on behalf of William at Blenhiem

the battle of the boyne against james was going to take place at Salisbury plain but armies didn't engage ...and john Churchill duke of marlborough then switched sides to William......later james and William would meet in Ireland at the Boyne.

3rd king james II victory over john scott duke of Monmouth at sedgemoor 1685...he himself didn't take part..

Churchill,king james II and and William have been pictured on a rearing horse..in various images.

4th Charles the Second ...john scotts father and James the seconds elder brother was the prince of WALES......and so was his father Charles 1st.
Charles the second was cousin of louis XIV and sold him Dunkirk....... England was briefly in the Triple Alliance (Sweden and Dutch republic) though I doubt it relates to that..as he entered the treaty of Dover with louis in 1670

6th Charles the first he fought france in the Anglo-French war 1627 to 29 and sent George Villiers !st duke of Buckingham to lead on his behalf however it was mainly action at sea.and England lost..

7th George 1st who followed William and Anne fought the 1715 jacobite uprising ...the Scots and was to bring James Francis Edward Stuart and they was supported by the kingdom of France however he wasn't a prince of wales....but his son George the second was ..not only that he was the last British king to fight in Battle ...which was during the War of Austrian Succession...and England in it fought against the French...he fought at the Battle of Dettingen ...which Britain won..George also had his son with him....Prince William, Duke of Cumberland...who would go to Scotland and defeat Bonnie Prince Charlie at Culloden in 1746 it was his nephew who would become king in 1760...George the third...then you start closing in on Waterloo,french revolution ,Napoleon ect.

it seems that George the Second could be who it is however William III is bugging me as its similar to images found on Orange parade banners in Ireland.

very interesting find..be great to know if you find out more...good luck ::g ::g ::g
Assuming it was found in South lincolnshire ..????? would this help any??? ... think that Fred has also had some good thoughts about this item.
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Re: Lovely enamelled mount for ID

Post by fred » Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:27 am

oldartefact wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:07 am

Assuming it was found in South lincolnshire ..????? would this help any??? ... think that Fred has also had some good thoughts about this item.

Thanks. I really like it but I am just musing. I hope that somebody will come up with the definitive answer soon before I drive myself nuts. :D

PS I think that I can see pikes in the weapons and an angel at the top with outstretched wings to either side. I may just be hallucinating due to looking at too many 17th and 18thC pictures though.
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Re: Lovely enamelled mount for ID

Post by bryan162 » Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:04 pm

That's a very nice piece well done ::g

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Re: Lovely enamelled mount for ID

Post by Bypass2 » Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:38 pm

Nice find well done ::g

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