Military button ID please

[epmg]

Railway Pioneer Regiment?

[sweepstick47]

Tip concerning this ID request -
In order to highlight detail on buttons and Dog Tags etc, lightly running a stick of chalk across the surface (blowing away surplus chalk) will make-up for ill lit/difficult to read embossed detail.
For 'Debossed' (engraved) items such as soldier's Dog/ID Tags etc. A light dusting with talcum powder followed by a light brushing is especially effective in bringing out the detail to read lettering.

Safety note: Avoid breathing in chalk dust (respiratory safeguard) or Talcum Powder, the latter has recently been claimed to have carcinogenic properties.
Cheers Eric

[fred]

Yep, spent some time looking for this.
Still think it`s Napoleonic Militia.

I agree. Trouble is that many of the Militias were short lived or underwent several rapid name changes, not always even well documented.

[LuckyB]

I would agree, I'm sure it is an early 1800s militia button, you only have to look at the unidentified buttons on that website which confirms what Fred is saying that these units were often short lived and were not all well documented.

[Bardolph]

OK, I think we are going to have to call “Time” on this one. Unless there is someone out there who has yet to see this button and can identify it, we have all come to a dead end.

At one stage I thought this button might correspond to any one of the numerous regiments which do not appear in the British Amy buttons database, such as, for example, the 132nd Royal Wakefield Regiment, the 118th Fingall’s Regiment, the 120th, the 119th Prince’s Own Regiment, the 109th Bombay Infantry, etc.

A very large number of ad-hoc regiments were founded in 1794 when fears of an invasion by France were at their height, and many landowners and civic authorities set up a local regiment. Most took the name of their founder (who became colonel of the regiment) or of their area, and were given an official number. The vast majority however were disbanded within a year or so or were merged into official existing regiments of the British Army. Reference to these, and many others, can be found on the net, but I cannot find one with the initials RPR, nor are there any photos of the buttons of any of these short-lived regiments.

Under the circumstances, I would suggest that the probably the best - or perhaps the only – way to solve the problem is to send the button the British Army Museum and ask the experts there for their help

https://www.nam.ac.uk/

[Bardolph]

Even though I had practically given up on this badge I carried on looking at various possibilities among local militia regiments (e.g.Royal Perth? Plymouth? Preston??, etc) – until at last I came up with what I reckon is probably the correct ID:

The Royal Pembroke Rifles

This was a local militia, the Pembrokeshire Militia, which was first raised in the 17th century. Militias were generally raised in time of war for defence only – no overseas service – and were usually disbanded when there was no longer any need for local defence units.

In the early days of the Napoleonic wars, the Pembrokeshire miltia was once again reconstituted and by 1796 was known as the Pembrokeshire Regiment. It took a small part in the defeat at Fishguard in South Wales of the attempted French invasion in February 1797, alongside the Cardiganshire Militia.

In April 1804, the Regiment which called itself, unofficially, the Royal Pembrokeshire Militia, was granted the right to use the Royal prefix. Four year later, the name was officially changed to the Royal Pembrokeshire Fuzileers and in 1810 the name was once again changed, to Royal Pembrokeshire Light Infantry.

On 17th July 1811 the regiment underwent its final name change and became the Royal Pembrokeshire Rifle Corps, or more simply, Royal Pembroke Rifles and were sent to Ireland where it served until April 1813, returning to Enland for garrison duties until June 1814 when it was finally disbanded.

The initials on the button correspond and the RPR were entitled to use the royal crown - I think we have an ID that stands up.

Click on the link below for more details on the Pembroke militia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Pembroke_Militia

[Dave The Slave]

Looks like you`ve solved it
Good detailed write up.
You may have the only one in existence.
Cheers,
Dave.

[sweepstick47]

A great thread with plenty of suggestions as to the possible ID of the subject Militia button and it does look as if Bardolph's tenacity in researching the Pembroke Militia units of the period has brought about the required answer so well done Bardolph

[epmg]

Even though I had practically given up on this badge I carried on looking at various possibilities among local militia regiments (e.g.Royal Perth? Plymouth? Preston??, etc) – until at last I came up with what I reckon is probably the correct ID:

The Royal Pembroke Rifles

This was a local militia, the Pembrokeshire Militia, which was first raised in the 17th century. Militias were generally raised in time of war for defence only – no overseas service – and were usually disbanded when there was no longer any need for local defence units.

In the early days of the Napoleonic wars, the Pembrokeshire miltia was once again reconstituted and by 1796 was known as the Pembrokeshire Regiment. It took a small part in the defeat at Fishguard in South Wales of the attempted French invasion in February 1797, alongside the Cardiganshire Militia.

In April 1804, the Regiment which called itself, unofficially, the Royal Pembrokeshire Militia, was granted the right to use the Royal prefix. Four year later, the name was officially changed to the Royal Pembrokeshire Fuzileers and in 1810 the name was once again changed, to Royal Pembrokeshire Light Infantry.

On 17th July 1811 the regiment underwent its final name change and became the Royal Pembrokeshire Rifle Corps, or more simply, Royal Pembroke Rifles and were sent to Ireland where it served until April 1813, returning to Enland for garrison duties until June 1814 when it was finally disbanded.

The initials on the button correspond and the RPR were entitled to use the royal crown - I think we have an ID that stands up.

Click on the link below for more details on the Pembroke militia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Pembroke_Militia

That certainly seems to have nailed it precisely! I have sent off enquiries also to the NAM and the militia button site as suggested and will update with anything further .

[rockfish]

Victorian crown on the button not a King's crown, its a military button. Railway Pioneer Regiment.
Never saw this post prior

[Leg end]

Railway Pioneer Regiment?

He said it first - South Africa, Boer War era https://www.easyliveauction.com/catalog ... s-and-sho/

I can't find a button though.

[fred]

Victorian crown on the button not a King's crown, its a military button. Railway Pioneer Regiment.
Never saw this post prior

That style of crown was used from at least late George III to Victoria. The button's construction and the maker's backmark are quite a bit too early for the Boer War, which is when the RPR existed.

Screenshot (164).png

The Railway Pioneer Regiment uniform that I have located seems to have used General Service Buttons. As the unit was raised in South African during the Boer War and was relatively short lived I can't really imagine them sending to London for special buttons.

[epmg]

Thanks, that makes sense but a remaining qualm is that George IV succeeded in 1820, 6 years after the Royal Pembroke Rifles disbanded. Can we be sure the crown style was not used on buttons before that (ie under George III)?

[fred]

Thanks, that makes sense but a remaining qualm is that George IV succeeded in 1820, 6 years after the Royal Pembroke Rifles disbanded. Can we be sure the crown style was not used on buttons before that (ie under George III)?

Sorry that was a typo, I was desperately trying not to write George IIII but then wrote it in a different form! It definitely was in use late in the late George III period. I'm OK with the Pembroke suggestion but without some corroboration it remains just a possibility.

[Koala]

There's four known types of buttons for the Pembrokes

None are like this