Military button ID please

Finds and artefacts found while out metal detecting which require identifying.
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rockfish
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Post by rockfish »

I retract Railway Pioneer Regiment I was well off the mark. Fred was spot on with general service buttons, apparently officers in the RPR from GB wore the gilt Royal Engineers buttons.

If the button is flat and not concave then it maybe a mess military button.

The Royal Pembrokes usually had the POW ( Prince of Wales feathers) on all the buttons associated with the rifle's.

Interesting find though, Im always happy digging up a potential military or civil organisation button. [81/]
epmg
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Post by epmg »

Thanks Koala, that's very interesting. I guess the question is then: how (a) different to this button and (b) different to each other, are the four button types you have identified?
Bardolph
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Post by Bardolph »

Hi Rockfish, how do you know that the "Royal Pembrokes usually had the POW ( Prince of Wales feathers) on all the buttons associated with the rifles" ?

I have looked high and low for a RPR button, with or without Prince of Wales feathers, with no success - you apparently seem to have found at least one. Can you post a pic of the RPR buton for us to see?

Moving from the particular to the general, I do not understand how you can blithely assert that rifle regiments usually had the POW feathers. If you look at the buttons of any of the rifle regiments, not one has feathers. Look at the three most famous, the 95th, the 43rd and the 52nd, for example, or any of the other 10 rifle regiments of the Napoleonic period.
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fred
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Post by fred »

Bardolph wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2024 5:43 pm Hi Rockfish, how do you know that the "Royal Pembrokes usually had the POW ( Prince of Wales feathers) on all the buttons associated with the rifles" ?

I have looked high and low for a RPR button, with or without Prince of Wales feathers, with no success - you apparently seem to have found at least one. Can you post a pic of the RPR buton for us to see?

Moving from the particular to the general, I do not understand how you can blithely assert that rifle regiments usually had the POW feathers. If you look at the buttons of any of the rifle regiments, not one has feathers. Look at the three most famous, the 95th, the 43rd and the 52nd, for example, or any of the other 10 rifle regiments of the Napoleonic period.
He said that the Royal Pembrokes had PoW feathers on the insignia of their rifle units, which is probably correct, at least for a time after 1811 by which time the 'Militia' had evolved into 'Rifles' via 'Fusiliers' and 'Light Infantry'. All the name and role changes over just a few years make it really difficult to keep track of what uniforms were used by who. The Welsh Volunteers Units did tend to use prominent PoW feathers though and if the buttons were constantly changing you would have thought that there would be records of the changes and a few examples. The change to Rifles in 1811 was significant because rifle regiments wore a completely different uniform to line regiments and no doubt even the volunteers were eventually kitted out properly. I am amazed at how poorly documented all of this is. [88/]
rockfish
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Post by rockfish »

Bardolph wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2024 5:43 pm Hi Rockfish, how do you know that the "Royal Pembrokes usually had the POW ( Prince of Wales feathers) on all the buttons associated with the rifles" ? I have looked high and low for a RPR button, with or without Prince of Wales feathers, with no success - you apparently seem to have found at least one. Can you post a pic of the RPR buton for us to see?

A couple of useful resources

Local Militia Buttons and Rifle Volunteer Buttons books by Bob Moodie and Howard Ripley, I can't find an online version.

https://asahelena.wixsite.com/militaryb ... uttons-p-r
Has a Penbroke militia button with a useful description of when the militia formed the rifles.

https://www.noonans.co.uk/auctions/arch ... offset=160
Interesting set of buttons in the photo but no Penbroke.
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Post by Koala »

epmg wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2024 5:42 pm Thanks Koala, that's very interesting. I guess the question is then: how (a) different to this button and (b) different to each other, are the four button types you have identified?
They were written about in the military dress code manuals,

Plus the part the book about the about buttons is on a military forum

Of the four known types none are similar

None are crowned RPR

Putting initials together and coming to a conclusion may or may not be correct, same as a lot of stuff as identified via eBay listings

Might not be even UK, we exported world wide

Probably not

Republica Populară Romînă
Railway Pioneer Regt
Finnish: Rannikkoprikaati (RPR)
Regiment Piet Retief

But most of the empire use the crown as do a lot of other countries

Royal loyal volunteers rifle railway are all very common

Just by towns

Paddock Wood
Padiham
Padstow
Paignton
Painswick
Paisley
Partington
Pateley Bridge
Peacehaven
Peebles
Peel
Pembroke Dock / Doc Penfro
Pembroke / Penfro
Penarth
Pencoed
Penicuik
Penistone
Penkridge
Penmaenmawr
Penrith
Penryn
Penzance
Pershore
Perth
Peterborough
Peterhead
Peterlee
Petersfield
Petworth
Pickering
Pitlochry
Pittenweem
Plymouth
Pocklington
Polegate
Pontardawe
Pontarddulais
Pontefract
Ponteland
Pontllanfraith
Pontycymer
Pontypool / Pont-y-pŵl
Pontypridd
Poole
Portadown
Port Glasgow
Porth
Porthcawl
Porthmadog
Portishead
Portlethen
Portrush
Portsmouth
Portsoy
Portstewart
Port Talbot
Potters Bar
Potton
Poulton-le-Fylde
Poynton
Prescot
Prestatyn
Presteigne / Llanandras
Preston
Prestonpans
Prestwick
Princes Risborough
Prudhoe
Pudsey
Pwllheli

The search should be huge


I can't find it in the imperial war museum or Kelly's badges two resources I trust
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