Roman silver. Carausius AR denarius, London

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Roman silver. Carausius AR denarius, London

Post by Jungle » Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:09 pm

Pretty sure it's silver but it's not in my common finds book. Thanks.
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Re: Roman silver.

Post by Allectus » Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:12 pm

Carausius. Nice find! ::g

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Re: Roman silver.

Post by coal digger » Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:12 pm

Carausius Antoninianus,nice piercing also,cd ::g
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Re: Roman silver.

Post by lord lovell » Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:13 pm

very nice ::g

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Re: Roman silver.

Post by Allectus » Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:20 pm

Carausius, AR denarius, London. AD 286-293. IMP CARAVSIVS PI AVG, laureate, draped and cuirassed bust right / VIRT CARAVSI AVG, Lion walking left, holding thunderbolt in mouth (double-struck). Mintmark RSR. RIC V-2, London 591 var (legends); Dix Noonan Webb 122, lot 36. Unpublished.

http://wildwinds.com/coins/ric/carausiu ... 1_var4.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ::g

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Re: Roman silver.

Post by Allectus » Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:24 pm

RIC V-2, London 591 var (legends); Dix Noonan Webb 122, lot 36, Apr. 2014.
Unpublished. Extremely rare

Note the above Jungle ::g


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Re: Roman silver.

Post by Allectus » Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:28 pm

That double-struck example fetched £2,600 ::g

Lot 36...http://www.dnw.co.uk/auction-archive/pr ... ion_id=306" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Roman silver.

Post by coal digger » Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:29 pm

Allectus wrote:Carausius, AR denarius, London. AD 286-293. IMP CARAVSIVS PI AVG, laureate, draped and cuirassed bust right / VIRT CARAVSI AVG, Lion walking left, holding thunderbolt in mouth (double-struck). Mintmark RSR. RIC V-2, London 591 var (legends); Dix Noonan Webb 122, lot 36. Unpublished.

http://wildwinds.com/coins/ric/carausiu ... 1_var4.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ::g

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Re: Roman silver.

Post by Allectus » Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:49 pm

Clock this Jungle, it gets better mate..."the reverse legend believed previously unpublished for the type, of the highest rarity" ::g
http://www.dnw.co.uk/auction-archive/ca ... _id=158384" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hope I've got the right one! :))

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Re: Roman silver.

Post by Goldyballs » Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:21 am

Superb find and a nice value as well :D

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Re: Roman silver.

Post by Jungle » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:34 am

Allectus wrote:Clock this Jungle, it gets better mate..."the reverse legend believed previously unpublished for the type, of the highest rarity" ::g
http://www.dnw.co.uk/auction-archive/ca ... _id=158384" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hope I've got the right one! :))

A ;)
Gulp! Will the piercing devalue (need to square away the farmer), it was a one time dig while on my week long detecting holiday 200 miles from home (thank you wife). I must have stepped in something as I found a Saxon silver pin the day before.
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Re: Roman silver. Carausius AR denarius, London

Post by alloverover » Sun Oct 18, 2015 2:57 am

Stunning find Jungle \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ a Carausius denarius is on my most wanted before I die list, wonderful find mate. they are a strange denomination, referred to as denarii but bigger and flatter than a normal denarius indeed they are from the age of antoninianii and are usually the same size as them but out of silver.

As for the piercing, it makes it a lot more interesting mate but think it now becomes a reportable item under the treasure act as its use maybe changed from a coin to an item of jewelry ( proberbly in Saxon times but who knows ), as for its worth.............I fear that will be decided by the TVC as I am sure that coin will be most sought after by the BM itself ;) ::g ::g ::g

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Re: Roman silver. Carausius AR denarius, London

Post by Jungle » Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:39 am

alloverover wrote:Stunning find Jungle \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ a Carausius denarius is on my most wanted before I die list, wonderful find mate. they are a strange denomination, referred to as denarii but bigger and flatter than a normal denarius indeed they are from the age of antoninianii and are usually the same size as them but out of silver.

As for the piercing, it makes it a lot more interesting mate but think it now becomes a reportable item under the treasure act as its use maybe changed from a coin to an item of jewelry ( proberbly in Saxon times but who knows ), as for its worth.............I fear that will be decided by the TVC as I am sure that coin will be most sought after by the BM itself ;) ::g ::g ::g
Thanks for your comments, its yet to sink in.
I've taken coins with piercings in before to FLO but they've not been classed as Treasure. I wonder what criteria they work to? As you say, TVC may not take recent coin auction prices in to consideration and valuation may suffer.
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Re: Roman silver. Carausius AR denarius, London

Post by Jungle » Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:53 pm

https://finds.org.uk/treasure/advice/piercedcoins" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Roman silver. Carausius AR denarius, London

Post by Jungle » Sun Nov 08, 2015 6:19 pm

BM does not appear to have an example. Now with FLO.
How do they know when a coin was taken out of circulation? If hole was made after coin was legal tender, it was not taken out of circulation, in my view. FLO agreed guidance on Pas was woolly.
Has anyone attended a coroners hearing and challenged something being declared?
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Re: Roman silver. Carausius AR denarius, London

Post by GeoffBristol » Sun Nov 08, 2015 7:37 pm

Earlier this year I took a gilded silver Elizabeth 1st hammered to my local FLO, to me it seems someone was trying to pass it off as gold coin, but this was the reply.
Quote:
Hi, Just heard back from the treasure elves in London, they have decided that a gilded silver would be treasure as it had been taken out of circulation as a form of money and would be used as an artefact (perhaps a pendant or charm).

This seems rather strange to me, I think from now on I will keep my finds to myself.
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Re: Roman silver.

Post by Jungle » Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:08 pm

Allectus wrote:Clock this Jungle, it gets better mate..."the reverse legend believed previously unpublished for the type, of the highest rarity" ::g
http://www.dnw.co.uk/auction-archive/ca ... _id=158384" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hope I've got the right one! :))

A ;)
BM have confirmed new type, unrecorded so spot on again Allectus.
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Re: Roman silver. Carausius AR denarius, London

Post by Jungle » Mon Jun 06, 2016 4:37 pm

Update. After 10 months, now awaiting inquest as BM want it.
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Re: Roman silver. Carausius AR denarius, London

Post by fred » Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:25 pm

Jungle wrote:Update. After 10 months, now awaiting inquest as BM want it.
You have still done the right thing and you will find out soon enough (well eventually anyway :D ) what they think that it's worth. ::g

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Re: Roman silver. Carausius AR denarius, London

Post by f8met » Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:59 pm

The inquest is the slow bit and can take ages. I attended an inquest last month for my Gratian pierced silver. The coroner had 7 inquests which stretched back over 18 months, mine was from October so I was lucky. They are not prioritised so they tend to batch them. The TVC can do the same so it may take a while yet.
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Re: Roman silver. Carausius AR denarius, London

Post by sweepstick47 » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:27 pm

That's a great 'state of play' to be in Jungle! I look forward to the final outcome ::g Regards ss47
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Re: Roman silver. Carausius AR denarius, London

Post by roadwarriormax » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:51 pm

nice find :) well done ::g OooO
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Re: Roman silver. Carausius AR denarius, London

Post by Jungle » Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:00 pm

2nd day in court and coroner found in my favour, not treasure.
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Re: Roman silver. Carausius AR denarius, London

Post by fred » Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:01 pm

Jungle wrote:2nd day in court and coroner found in my favour, not treasure.
Very surprised at that. I look forward to finding out why the coroner decided the way. Provided that there isn't an appeal (not sure if that is even possible?) then you may have done all detectorists a favour although again I am not sure if a Coroners verdict sets any kind of precedent. ::g

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Re: Roman silver. Carausius AR denarius, London

Post by Jungle » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:46 am

I presented several arguments and still had some in reserve. The next treasure case involving a pierced coin was also disclaimed 'to be consistent ' however I suspect the BM and FLO's will offer better or different evidence and or push for change in Act so that it includes single Gold and silver coins.
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Re: Roman silver. Carausius AR denarius, London

Post by fred » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:23 am

Jungle wrote:
Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:46 am
I presented several arguments and still had some in reserve. The next treasure case involving a pierced coin was also disclaimed 'to be consistent ' however I suspect the BM and FLO's will offer better or different evidence and or push for change in Act so that it includes single Gold and silver coins.
From informal conversation with several of those involved in the process about other coins I'm not sure that they even want to be able to claim single coins, not that they wouldn't appreciate getting hold of single rarities either. :D The extra workload and expense would be phenomenal and there aren't likely to be any more resources made available for handling them.

In my opinion this case seems to be revolving around whether coin which has been altered for use as something other than money is still a coin. Because the value of a coin in those days was mostly based on it's bullion value I personally think that even with a small hole it probably would have been spendable. After all we often find them with gouges and testing cuts. Once you start welding bits on or fitting them into jewelry it might be a bit different. Of course if you could prove that the coin was drilled by a Saxon for wearing at a time when the coin couldn't be spent you might also run into a problem but you can seldom be sure when it was done. ::g

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Re: Roman silver. Carausius AR denarius, London

Post by jcmaloney » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:57 am

Jungle wrote:
Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:46 am
I presented several arguments and still had some in reserve. The next treasure case involving a pierced coin was also disclaimed 'to be consistent ' however I suspect the BM and FLO's will offer better or different evidence and or push for change in Act so that it includes single Gold and silver coins.
Ah ha! All makes sense now........ saw the FB post etc! ::g

I think there will be a push for single Gold Roman/Anglo Saxon to be classified as Treasure especially now there is a "pierced coin test case" found as "not treasure" by a coroner.
I may quote this when mine eventually gets to inquest. ;)

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Re: Roman silver. Carausius AR denarius, London

Post by f8met » Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:19 pm

My pierced silver was classed as treasure and is at the museum who expressed an interest after we donated it. It is highly likely it would not have been in circulation as they would not have pierced a current coin, more likely it would have been found and then made into decoration. I am very surprised it was not considered an artifact as it had clearly been deliberately pierced.

Goes to show that without a central coroner there will always be inconsistencies. The coroners job is usually just a paperwork exercise and the report from the FLO/BM should have given him guidance to the decision.

Interesting you say it was disclaimed. Was this because there was no interest from museums or that he had decided it was not treasure? Why is there a push for these not to be classed as treasure?
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Re: Roman silver. Carausius AR denarius, London

Post by Jungle » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:04 pm

BM wanted it but did not convince the corner. My issue was that looking on PAS many single pierced coins were 'returned to finder' but my rare coin which the BM does not have was now not a coin. Had there been two holes or a suspension loop then clearly it would have been treasure. That said, when I get it back it will be offered to BM first.

Some single pierced roman coins have been found threaded on to Roman brooch pins for safe keeping, and the Chinese use holes in coins to keep them safe.
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Re: Roman silver. Carausius AR denarius, London

Post by fred » Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:52 am

Jungle wrote:
Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:04 pm
BM wanted it but did not convince the corner. My issue was that looking on PAS many single pierced coins were 'returned to finder' but my rare coin which the BM does not have was now not a coin. Had there been two holes or a suspension loop then clearly it would have been treasure. That said, when I get it back it will be offered to BM first.

Some single pierced roman coins have been found threaded on to Roman brooch pins for safe keeping, and the Chinese use holes in coins to keep them safe.
Well argued. ::g

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