Item with lettering...

Please post any finds here that you wish help with identification.
Post Reply
User avatar
littleboot
Posts: 1205
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:22 pm
Location: Normandy (the cider and cheese area)
Has thanked: 66 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Item with lettering...

Post by littleboot » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:30 pm

I found this about 5 inches down in a field that had its wheat harvested early for silage. It has produced 1st and 2nd century Roman grots (a small lane beside it is Roman) and 15th century items onward. This area of the monster field was hay meadow in 1820. (Before combines) It is quite thick and seems to have a layered structure to it. Pewter/ Bell-metal I think.....definitely NOT lead. Obviously it is part of something bigger....
It has lettering....in a Roman style. But obviously that style of lettering has been popular ever since.
Any suggestions on what it is or what it says gratefully received.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
GMP, Tesoro Invincible, wellies.

User avatar
Danzigman
Posts: 12015
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:31 am
Location: Denmark - island of Fyn (Funen)
Has thanked: 102 times
Been thanked: 84 times

Re: Item with lettering...

Post by Danzigman » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:32 pm

My first thourgth was Russian flax or bale seal - Riga around baltic
XP DEUS. GPP VII. GARMIN etrex 20.
http://s1222.photobucket.com/user/Danzigman/library/

User avatar
littleboot
Posts: 1205
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:22 pm
Location: Normandy (the cider and cheese area)
Has thanked: 66 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: Item with lettering...

Post by littleboot » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:48 pm

At first glance I thought it was a bale seal too John. But I find loads of those and this isn't the same. There is nowhere for a chord to go through it. It is solid. The metal is worn away and appears laminated in structure. Found in Normandy.
GMP, Tesoro Invincible, wellies.

User avatar
geoffb
Posts: 466
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:04 pm
Location: Normandy, Manche, France
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: Item with lettering...

Post by geoffb » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:04 pm

Hi,
What are the letters on the first picture.
I can see RE NAIL on the second picture. Could it be royal engineers nails ?.
Just a thought !
Geoff
"One man's trash is another man's treasure."
Teknetics T2 SE, Makro Racer, Minelab Sov, Tesoro Silver Sabre.

User avatar
littleboot
Posts: 1205
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:22 pm
Location: Normandy (the cider and cheese area)
Has thanked: 66 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: Item with lettering...

Post by littleboot » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:32 pm

Ha Geoff....
Its a nice idea. :)) But the item is quite old IMO. And we don't get much War stuff in my fields. (Though just a few miles up the road is a very different story).
Its very small and bag-seal size in some ways.....but chunky. Its a bit like tearing a small bit from a page and throwing the rest away and then trying to work out the words and meaning. A long shot.
I get the feeling its Latin but could be way off.
GMP, Tesoro Invincible, wellies.

User avatar
fred
Posts: 3096
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:15 pm
Has thanked: 120 times
Been thanked: 306 times

Re: Item with lettering...

Post by fred » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:48 am

It looks like the older type of bale or cloth seal where a lead stud is linked to a lead circle with a hole in it. The stud is pushed through the cloth or sack and then through the lead circle and then it is all squashed shut and the design impressed on it at the same time. The squashing explains the laminated appearance ::g

Koala
Posts: 2507
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:47 pm
Location: Cheshire
Has thanked: 34 times
Been thanked: 151 times

Re: Item with lettering...

Post by Koala » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:17 am

Here is an example of the type Fred described.

Cord goes round the outside.

All you are left with is the centre section. Rim is now missing.

Finds Database

User avatar
littleboot
Posts: 1205
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:22 pm
Location: Normandy (the cider and cheese area)
Has thanked: 66 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: Item with lettering...

Post by littleboot » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:44 pm

Hmm. Food for thought. But that example has nothing on one side whereas what I have is double sided.
GMP, Tesoro Invincible, wellies.

Koala
Posts: 2507
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:47 pm
Location: Cheshire
Has thanked: 34 times
Been thanked: 151 times

Re: Item with lettering...

Post by Koala » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:31 pm

http://www.bagseals.org/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=4533same seal better second side


With a few more letter I am sure we could narrow it down. These small partefacts it's rare to get a 100% match

User avatar
Danzigman
Posts: 12015
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:31 am
Location: Denmark - island of Fyn (Funen)
Has thanked: 102 times
Been thanked: 84 times

Re: Item with lettering...

Post by Danzigman » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:07 pm

First photo is upside down, and not the best quality seen.. Please try to retake them. Im still convinced it must be a bag or cloth seal.. I do not think it is a old as the suggested type above (1500- 1600 forward) later early 1800 is my suggestion
XP DEUS. GPP VII. GARMIN etrex 20.
http://s1222.photobucket.com/user/Danzigman/library/

User avatar
Danzigman
Posts: 12015
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:31 am
Location: Denmark - island of Fyn (Funen)
Has thanked: 102 times
Been thanked: 84 times

Re: Item with lettering...

Post by Danzigman » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:12 pm

Maybe a token - Not match, but similar - http://www.bagseals.org/gallery/main.ph ... emId=12545
XP DEUS. GPP VII. GARMIN etrex 20.
http://s1222.photobucket.com/user/Danzigman/library/

Koala
Posts: 2507
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:47 pm
Location: Cheshire
Has thanked: 34 times
Been thanked: 151 times

Re: Item with lettering...

Post by Koala » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:43 pm

Danzigman wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:07 pm
First photo is upside down, and not the best quality seen.. Please try to retake them. Im still convinced it must be a bag or cloth seal.. I do not think it is a old as the suggested type above (1500- 1600 forward) later early 1800 is my suggestion
I don't think its as old as the example I gave

Tried to find one where the outer edge had broken away to leave just the centre laminated section


Didn't think there was enough letters left for an ID.

User avatar
littleboot
Posts: 1205
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:22 pm
Location: Normandy (the cider and cheese area)
Has thanked: 66 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: Item with lettering...

Post by littleboot » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:22 pm

Thanks all for your imput. Its never easy with just a small piece remaining.
I have had a flare up of arthritis in my hands recently which has made taking pictures difficult. So that doesn't help. Will have to get my hubby to take them in future.
As I pointed out in the first post it is not made of lead. All the bagseals I have dug have been.
I don't think I will ever solve it completely. I can see similarities with the examples given but I still think it is old, given the context of what I have found in the field.
Last edited by littleboot on Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
GMP, Tesoro Invincible, wellies.

User avatar
Danzigman
Posts: 12015
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:31 am
Location: Denmark - island of Fyn (Funen)
Has thanked: 102 times
Been thanked: 84 times

Re: Item with lettering...

Post by Danzigman » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:26 pm

littleboot wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:22 pm
Thanks all for your imput. Its never easy with just a small piece remaining.
I have had a flare up of arthritis in my hands recently which has made taking pictures difficult. So that doesn't help. Will have to get my hubby to take them in future.
Not meant like that. But in daylight you will get a better result.. Get as close as possible with the camera you use..
XP DEUS. GPP VII. GARMIN etrex 20.
http://s1222.photobucket.com/user/Danzigman/library/

User avatar
littleboot
Posts: 1205
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:22 pm
Location: Normandy (the cider and cheese area)
Has thanked: 66 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: Item with lettering...

Post by littleboot » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:29 pm

Aww DM...no offence taken at all! I know they are not the best and I am annoyed with myself. Its a nice little camera but with the pain in my fingers I get camera shake all the time. Much easier when I use a phone.
GMP, Tesoro Invincible, wellies.

User avatar
fred
Posts: 3096
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:15 pm
Has thanked: 120 times
Been thanked: 306 times

Re: Item with lettering...

Post by fred » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:44 am

littleboot wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:44 pm
Hmm. Food for thought. But that example has nothing on one side whereas what I have is double sided.
They commonly do come in double sided too.

Pewter is lead with tin and sometimes other metal in it so it varies considerably in quality. Lead can also be somewhat impure, almost to the extent of looking and behaving like like pewter. Bell metal is high tin bronze and tends to be very hard and brittle. Your item doesn't really look like bell metal to me. ::g

User avatar
littleboot
Posts: 1205
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:22 pm
Location: Normandy (the cider and cheese area)
Has thanked: 66 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: Item with lettering...

Post by littleboot » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:07 am

I am going to do archimedes on it and see where the density is hovering. I do get quite a lot of bell metal stuff come up here .... some French coins I dig are made of it. It has a 'feel' to it. Certainly similar to that. I'll take more photos and do the test. I know its only a snippet of nothing but anything with lettering on it intrigues me. I am much more of an artifact person than a coin person if I am honest.
GMP, Tesoro Invincible, wellies.

User avatar
fred
Posts: 3096
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:15 pm
Has thanked: 120 times
Been thanked: 306 times

Re: Item with lettering...

Post by fred » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:31 am

littleboot wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:07 am
I am going to do archimedes on it and see where the density is hovering. I do get quite a lot of bell metal stuff come up here .... some French coins I dig are made of it. It has a 'feel' to it. Certainly similar to that. I'll take more photos and do the test. I know its only a snippet of nothing but anything with lettering on it intrigues me. I am much more of an artifact person than a coin person if I am honest.

It has the look of familiarity to it but I can't quite place it. I am not at home so I can't properly research it. You might ask Stuart Elton (the seal man) for his opinion, he can id seals by smell from 500km away. ::g

Long Jon Silver Foil
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:02 pm
Location: Littlehampton
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Item with lettering...

Post by Long Jon Silver Foil » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:56 am

Hi Littleboot, interesting item...My first thought was a token of some kind, but it looks almost like a small stack of thin discs stuck together, and like you say, as if it has been punched from a larger area of text. I do like these intriguing finds and hope you get to the bottom of it!
Laser Scout & Hawkeye

Post Reply

Return to “Identification of Finds”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Chalky14, fred, ianblue, Lowland, Ollie K, stargazer, Stillburning and 49 guests