Irish button for id

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les-27
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Irish button for id

Post by les-27 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:46 pm

Hi folks from snowy fermanagh a friend sent me a pic of this button we can't Id it is a 1 piece button, I told him the brains on this forum would know lol ::g
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Re: Irish button for id

Post by Saki » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:52 pm

This may very well be in relation to the 8th King's Royal Irish Hussars
They received honours for the Crimean and especially Balaklava.
This button looks to be a good age, predating all the other regiments/ constabulary etc using the harp with crown.
The crown is certainly the Kings or Queens.
The fouled anchor may well relate to the above honours
The other option is from the Irish/Canadian regiments of WW1. But this button seems older in style.
I have an officers naval button from 1827 and your looks to be older in style.
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Re: Irish button for id

Post by Saffron » Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:15 am

Sorry to disagree with Saki but this is nothing like any 8th King's Royal Irish Hussars button I can see online, and I would be very surprised if any Hussars had an anchor on their button (horses and sea do not go easily together!).
But more than happy to be proved wrong if he can provide an example.

My guess, repeat guess, would be either a shipping line or yacht club but having looked at a few hundred (admittedly mainly English) I can not find even a close match.

Evan

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Re: Irish button for id

Post by Saki » Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:33 am

Evan,
I'm wrong on this one.

The more I look, the more I am finding of an Irish Harp with Crown.... but no anchor.
But I do believe it must be to do with the 1798 rebellion and threat of a French invasion.

"Royal Drogheda Rifles" "Myroe Infantry"
"Lienster Rangers" etc. etc.
"The Volunteers were loyalist and officially Protestant. Their stated purpose was to protect and defend Ireland against the threat of French invasion in the absence of British troops, who had been sent off to deal with the American War of Independence. Very quickly, their role became more complicated. They described themselves as "patriots", a particularly 18th century term which came to include demands for free trade and legislative independence.

In the country, they were organised by local landowners and, in the towns, by occupational organisations like lawyers, bankers or even hairdressers. By 1780, they probably numbered between 30,000 and 40,000 Volunteers, both foot soldiers and cavalry.

If they mobilised for a French invasion, I wonder we're any of them on ships? ⛵
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Re: Irish button for id

Post by Saffron » Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:44 am

Saki,
I agree it could have been to do with the 1798 rebellion and threat of a French invasion.

It could be a loyalist Volunteer / Militia unit, but I have not known any of them to have a naval element (but my background is English units rather than Irish).

I am like you "The more I look, the more I am finding of an Irish Harp with Crown", and I am finding lots of "Crown and Anchor" (no I do not mean the pubs!).
But I can not find Crown, Harp AND Anchor which is what is pushing me towards a smallish shipping line or yacht club.

Evan
Last edited by Saffron on Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Irish button for id

Post by Koala » Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:17 am

Royal Irish Yacht Club

Used both the crown above harp or crown above anchor but can't find both

I would have thought it would be

Royal Marines. The British use the anchor
A Royal club to account for crown
Coast guard

Or the crown is a red herring. Unfortunately is slightly corroded. Maybe it not quite a Queens crown

In which case it's likely to be a commercial liner, Merchant navy or shipping company. Which would explain why google fails although I can find close on flags.

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Re: Irish button for id

Post by Saki » Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:23 am

This may be bringing us closer:
https://www.royal-irish.com/stories/86t ... thead-1795
"While at sea, the detachments of the 86th went into action with the Fleet against the French Navy."


I can see harps and crowns and anchors when I close my eyes....Need to sleep......
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Re: Irish button for id

Post by Koala » Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:56 am

Going by the oval shape and crown

Royal Ulster"???????"

Harbour police
Naval hospital

Or something like that.

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Re: Irish button for id

Post by fred » Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:28 am

Koala wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:56 am
Going by the oval shape and crown

Royal Ulster"???????"

Harbour police
Naval hospital

Or something like that.
It looks Napoleonic period or just after to me and probably offical or semi official as it mimics a naval officers button in shape and form. I think that it may turn out to be a local coastguard or coastwatch or similar organisation, perhaps even a volunteer militia one. ::g

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Re: Irish button for id

Post by Koala » Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:04 pm

Surprised I failed with this. All three objects are visible. Got nowhere. Shame to give up.

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Re: Irish button for id

Post by Saffron » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:11 pm

Koala wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:04 pm
Surprised I failed with this. All three objects are visible. Got nowhere. Shame to give up.
Ditto.
I spent enough time on it as seeing it initally with crown, harp and anchor stupidly thought "This should be simple".
Its amazing how much time you can spend on trying to ID a button that you think looks easy and still fail ;;z ;;z

Still leaning towards a small yacht club or shiping line as surely some thing larger should be identifiable.
Suspecting Koala might be correct "Is the crown is a red herring. Unfortunately is slightly corroded. Maybe it not quite a Queens crown" and its something trying to make itself look grander than it is.

Evan

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Re: Irish button for id

Post by liamnolan » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:16 pm

Its an intriguing find and shows how much pleasure we can get from the post-find research.
As already suggested, I think it may be an unofficial ornamental mock up of the three design features to simply look attractive on some sort of garment and as such will not be registered or recorded in the usual way. Thanks for sharing Les, not quite as exciting as that Celtic Brooch you found! Cheers, Liam ::g
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Re: Irish button for id

Post by Saffron » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:27 pm

liamnolan wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:16 pm
Or more accurately did not write :))
Its an intriguing find and shows how much pleasure timewe can get waste from the post-find research.
As already suggested, I think it may be an unofficial ornamental mock up of the three design features to simply look attractive on some sort of garment and as such will not be registered or recorded in the usual way. Thanks for sharing Les, not quite as exciting as that Celtic Brooch you found! Cheers, Liam ::g

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Re: Irish button for id

Post by les-27 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:06 pm

liamnolan wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:16 pm
Its an intriguing find and shows how much pleasure we can get from the post-find research.
As already suggested, I think it may be an unofficial ornamental mock up of the three design features to simply look attractive on some sort of garment and as such will not be registered or recorded in the usual way. Thanks for sharing Les, not quite as exciting as that Celtic Brooch you found! Cheers, Liam ::g
Cheers liam , I only got everything finalised with the museum recently regarding the brooch it should be on display in the ulster museum soon ::g ::g

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Re: Irish button for id

Post by les-27 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:10 pm

I was told recently this button could be from the irish sea fencibles a militia navy

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Re: Irish button for id

Post by fred » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:13 pm

les-27 wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:10 pm
I was told recently this button could be from the irish sea fencibles a militia navy
I think somebody suggested a similar possibility early on in the discussion. ::g The problem is that there doesn't seem to be any records of the buttons. There are also written references to other units like the Shannon Sea Fencibles but little seems to be known about them.

It may be worth sending an image here and asking if they know what it might be:

http://asahelena.wixsite.com/militarybuttons

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