Any ideas on age on this silver/pewter button?

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Torquaygull
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Any ideas on age on this silver/pewter button?

Post by Torquaygull » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:28 pm

I found this silver/pewter button on a stubble field about 6" using the hot program on my Deus. It's about the size of a 5p coin. It has a design on the pewter side and a makers mark (SP) on the silver side. I think it's a blow hole button but just a bit unsure of age.

Any ideas?

Thanks.
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Re: Any ideas on age on this silver/pewter button?

Post by CTX_Phil » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:45 pm

Did I not id this for you on Twitter a while back? ;)

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Re: Any ideas on age on this silver/pewter button?

Post by Torquaygull » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:48 pm

It was on twitter but I''m just trying to narrow the date down in case it has to go to the FLO.

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Re: Any ideas on age on this silver/pewter button?

Post by Koala » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:58 pm

It got a back mark which started in 1750 with a few being mark so has to be post this date

Didn't real become common for back marks until the 1800s so more likely post this date

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Re: Any ideas on age on this silver/pewter button?

Post by Koala » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:18 pm

It would appear to be a two piece construction which didn't first appear until around 1830 give or take 10 year depending on which guide you believe and still made
button.jpg
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Re: Any ideas on age on this silver/pewter button?

Post by fred » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:30 pm

Koala wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:18 pm
It would appear to be a two piece construction which didn't first appear until around 1830 give or take 10 year depending on which guide you believe and still made
button.jpg
That really is a stunning example. ::g I would have thought that it dates from well before 1830 though. I have had some quite early Georgian pewter pimple buttons of similar construction out of the Thames. The stamped brass 2 part ones were introduced for military buttons a decade or two after the end of the Napleonic War. :-/

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Re: Any ideas on age on this silver/pewter button?

Post by Bfg » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:35 pm

Torquaygull wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:48 pm
It was on twitter but I''m just trying to narrow the date down in case it has to go to the FLO.
I don't 'do' twitter, so I for one am glad to see such a delightful little silver n' pewter button. ::g

As a newbie ; might I be so bold as to enquire - was this find along with others that "it has to go to the FLO." ? Surely it does not fall under the Treasure Act if unrelated to other finds, or am I not correctly interpreting that law ?

Thanks for your patience ..with those of us who ask perhaps dumb &/or repetitive questions. x;
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Re: Any ideas on age on this silver/pewter button?

Post by Koala » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:40 pm

Doesn't look like pewter. More like copper alloy the platted.

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Re: Any ideas on age on this silver/pewter button?

Post by oldartefact » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:04 am

Is it a solid button, I found one similar recently
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Re: Any ideas on age on this silver/pewter button?

Post by fred » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:12 am

Koala wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:40 pm
Doesn't look like pewter. More like copper alloy the platted.
It would be very unusual to have a stamped makers mark like that on a button that was not either pewter or silver. :-/

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Re: Any ideas on age on this silver/pewter button?

Post by CTX_Phil » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:14 am

fred wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:30 pm
Koala wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:18 pm
It would appear to be a two piece construction which didn't first appear until around 1830 give or take 10 year depending on which guide you believe and still made
button.jpg
That really is a stunning example. ::g I would have thought that it dates from well before 1830 though. I have had some quite early Georgian pewter pimple buttons of similar construction out of the Thames. The stamped brass 2 part ones were introduced for military buttons a decade or two after the end of the Napleonic War. :-/
Fred is correct, the date of 1830 ish for two piece buttons applies to military buttons mainly. Same as Fred I too have found earlier two part buttons that pre date 1830 mainly being 1700ish tombac fronted buttons. Most of the time the earlier two part buttons found in fields come up as just the front part which is normally domed or convex with either rust deposits on the back or white powdery corrosion stuff. If however you find such a button in the right conditions i.e river mud or waterlogged conditions you should get a complete button with a distinct difference in look between the two metal types used for back/front. In my opinion this button dates to the 1700s with tombac ish metal front and silver back with the mark being the silversmiths mark. I tried researching the mark when I first saw this button a while back but didn't find it so maybe now it's been posted on here a definitive date may be achieved.

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Re: Any ideas on age on this silver/pewter button?

Post by Koala » Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:02 am

Isn't it marked GP for Galvano Plated

button.jpg
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Re: Any ideas on age on this silver/pewter button?

Post by Torquaygull » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:59 am

Bfg wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:35 pm
Torquaygull wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:48 pm
It was on twitter but I''m just trying to narrow the date down in case it has to go to the FLO.
I don't 'do' twitter, so I for one am glad to see such a delightful little silver n' pewter button. ::g

As a newbie ; might I be so bold as to enquire - was this find along with others that "it has to go to the FLO." ? Surely it does not fall under the Treasure Act if unrelated to other finds, or am I not correctly interpreting that law ?

Thanks for your patience ..with those of us who ask perhaps dumb &/or repetitive questions. x;
If this button is more than 300 years old and the back is indeed silver then it will have to submitted as potential treasure but there be a very good chance of it being disclaimed and returned.

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Re: Any ideas on age on this silver/pewter button?

Post by Bfg » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:35 am

.
^ Thank you.

I re-read the criteria ..and see now that I didn't quite get it first time around.

(1) Treasure is -
. (a) Any object which might be presumed to be at least 300 years old when found that ;
. . (i) is not a coin but is an artifact with a metallic content of which at least 10% by weight is precious metal (ie. gold or silver).


..whereas only if two or more coins or tokens, of silver or gold, are found, they must be recorded.

..or only if 10 or more coins or tokens, not of silver or gold, and are found, they too must be recorded.

It does seem odd to me, that a partly silver tiny button needs to be recorded but a single large gold coin doesn't ..but then our laws are often poorly* written.

Cheers, ::g
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Re: Any ideas on age on this silver/pewter button?

Post by Koala » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:22 pm

I see something like this

modern button.jpg

And not something
Like this
cast button_edited.jpg
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