when is a bagseal not a bag seal, id pilgrim badge

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lordofthecoils
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when is a bagseal not a bag seal, id pilgrim badge

Post by lordofthecoils » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:28 pm

looking through finds from recent digs ,what I thought was a bag seal turned out to be something totally different. When washing of the mud of said bag seal I saw a figure in the centre and as I washed of the rest of the mud the middle fell out [shown in picture] . The item is about 18mm across and was made in three bits , a outer casing a centre panel inset, and the figure in a crescent
laid into the piece and fixed somehow all very delicate and a bit elaborate to . This struck me as similar to the lady in a boat Saxon sceat I found a few years back , although I would hazard a guess it is a medieval pilgrims badge of sorts so about five centureys apart. Any body know of anything similar would appreciate your comments, but I will hand it in .

I have photographed in in different lights to help viewing as its a bit of a strange one and a little confusing , well it confused me at first :D ::g ::g ::g Imagefront of item

Image reverse Image



Image the centre bit that fell out plus to more images as it becomes clearer in different lightsImageImagelady in a boat Saxon coin I found
Last edited by lordofthecoils on Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: when is a bagseal not a bag seal

Post by Oxgirl36 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:42 pm

I am rather liking that - very special find and looks very much like a pilgrim badge or other keepsake.

Adore it l;.
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Re: when is a bagseal not a bag seal

Post by Allectus » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:43 pm

Yep. Medieval Pilgrim pendant, nice find! ::g

A ;)

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Re: when is a bagseal not a bag seal

Post by Koala » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:45 pm

::g ::g ::g nice find

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Re: when is a bagseal not a bag seal

Post by Oxgirl36 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:56 pm

This is the same principle - similar ::g

https://finds.org.uk/database/artefacts ... /id/476316
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Re: when is a bagseal not a bag seal

Post by lordofthecoils » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:02 pm

Oxgirl36 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:56 pm
This is the same principle - similar ::g

https://finds.org.uk/database/artefacts ... /id/476316
Oh wow, though it was something like that but to see something very similar with date , brilliant , nice research Cathy very mush appreciated ::g ::g ::g ::g ::g

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Re: when is a bagseal not a bag seal

Post by lordofthecoils » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:05 pm

Allectus wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:43 pm
Yep. Medieval Pilgrim pendant, nice find! ::g

A ;)
As I said to Cathy , very pleased , many thanks for the verification , would have put it in the ID section but I cant scale it holding it in hand to catch the light lol, and I didn't want to get told off :D cheers Tony. ::g ::g ::g ::g ::g

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Re: when is a bagseal not a bag seal

Post by fred » Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:15 am

Well spotted and well identified. ::g
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Re: when is a bagseal not a bag seal

Post by lordofthecoils » Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:07 am

fred wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:15 am
Well spotted and well identified. ::g
cheers Fred ::g ::g ::g ::g

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Re: when is a bagseal not a bag seal

Post by alloverover » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:20 am

That's a pretty special find Ray ::g Ive never seen one of those before, very nice ::g

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Re: when is a bagseal not a bag seal

Post by lordofthecoils » Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:07 pm

alloverover wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:20 am
That's a pretty special find Ray ::g Ive never seen one of those before, very nice ::g
Did you notice that Cathys example was a Thames find ,where probably most good examples of pilgrim and associated types come from , obviously in good condition because of the mud . How the hell my one survived so intact in a ploughed field is a miracle . hh Phil ::g ::g ::g ::g ::g
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Re: when is a bagseal not a bag seal

Post by Oxgirl36 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:25 pm

I believe, according to p235 of ‘Medieval pilgrim and secular badges’ that this is the Virgin Mary standing on a ship, crowned, holding in her arms the infant Jesus, etc. Etc. Obviously she’s lost her crown though!

The resemblance is uncanny...
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Re: when is a bagseal not a bag seal

Post by alloverover » Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:14 pm

" One of the pilgrim signs most often worn in London during the first 2 or 3 decades of the sixteenth century depicted the Virgin and Child within a crescent moon. Well over 300 examples of the badge have been discovered in London, no fewer than five badges of the Virgin in a crescent moon , all from different moulds , were found during the excavation of a single pit in Blackfriers, from associated finds, the pit was dated to c 1520" ::g

That's taken from Museum of London's "Pilgrim Souvenirs and Secular Badges" Ray, heading "Unknown Shrine, (?) Our Lady of Willesden" :D ::g

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Re: when is a bagseal not a bag seal

Post by lordofthecoils » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:24 pm

Great info there Phil , super interesting , there were probably quite common as shown by the foreshore finds , but in our case most of the land lost example on ploughed field would be hardly recognisable fragments. Always wanted to find a pilgrims badge but knew due to their delicate nature on ploughed sites it would be impossible, now I have a bucket lister :)) ::g ::g ::g ::g

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Re: when is a bagseal not a bag seal

Post by alloverover » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:26 pm

lordofthecoils wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:24 pm
Great info there Phil , super interesting , there were probably quite common as shown by the foreshore finds , but in our case most of the land lost example on ploughed field would be hardly recognisable fragments. Always wanted to find a pilgrims badge but knew due to their delicate nature on ploughed sites it would be impossible, now I have a bucket lister :)) ::g ::g ::g ::g
Its a lovely little thing mate, very nice indeed ::g

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Re: when is a bagseal not a bag seal

Post by lordofthecoils » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:28 pm

Oxgirl36 wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:25 pm
I believe, according to p235 of ‘Medieval pilgrim and secular badges’ that this is the Virgin Mary standing on a ship, crowned, holding in her arms the infant Jesus, etc. Etc. Obviously she’s lost her crown though!

The resemblance is uncanny...
Top work again Cathy , yep that's the one , well done , its amazing how a bit of lead can be so enigmatic, love it :)) :-* ::g ::g ::g ::g

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