We have fire!!fat lamp experiment Big holey stone amid lithic site

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Lowland
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We have fire!!fat lamp experiment Big holey stone amid lithic site

Post by Lowland » Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:28 pm

Hi
Got the drop on when the field with all the chert prehistoric debris and tools in
Was being ploughed.
So followed the plough like a seagull and
I kid you not this stone was more or less central to the general area
All the finds have come from.
Which is glacial mounds of decent soil and gravel.
The stone itself is a quite coarse but dam hard sandstone
Lots of tiny white Quartz grains.
It’s not a type of stone I recognise as being local-so most likely dropped by receding ice.
And it’s got an ole in it.....
It sits on a flat base And a Very smooth exterior surface,with the depression being a bit rougher.
So context being everything my bet is -a useful looking natural stone
Commandeered many moons ago because it looked useful x;
It’s the first stone with a hole I’ve seen in the field after good few hours spent trawling.
It does look like it’s been formed by water by natural processes
But it would make a brilliant open circuit fat lamp...http://donsmaps.com/lascauxlamp.html
or a mortar perhaps.
Also just put a nice edge on a knife of mine with it.
What do you think...?
Ten pence piece for scale-it’s pretty large.
Forgot to mention the black marking on the surface,could be signs of burning
More likely stone fungus.
But i will put a lens on it tomorrow and check it out..... ::g
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Last edited by Lowland on Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.


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Re: Big holey stone amid lithic site

Post by Lowland » Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:22 am

Ping ::g
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Re: Big holey stone amid lithic site

Post by Ladybird66 » Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:02 am

I had the same thought, poss a mortar but the interior looks a bit oneven for that.
I’ve seen many examples of stones with holes in them on beaches. It’s amazing what water can do. Don’t be surprised by finding things out of context. I found a Sharks tooth in a field and I don’t think it was a charm against evil as info suggested. It was covered in a thin layer of sediment with tiny crustations mixed in.
This land we live on now has been under water a few times in its history.
Occasionally we’re lucky enough to find reminders.
If your like me your stone will join a few others in a garden feature. :D

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Re: Big holey stone amid lithic site

Post by Saki » Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:18 am

Big Holey stone.... or Holy stone.....


"... round hollow in a stone, or a bowl) is applied to boulders of stone or bedrock with hemispherical hollows or basin-like depressions, which may have functioned as mortars. They are frequently associated with ecclesiastical sites and holy wells and so may have been used for religious purposes. Other examples which do not appear to have ecclesiastical associations can be found in bedrock or outcrop in upland contexts, often under blanket bog, and are known as bedrock mortars. They date from the prehistoric period to the early medieval period (5th-12th centuries AD)."

Known also as "cure or curse" stones.
In Scotland, theybare known as Butterlump stones
In Ireland:Bullian stones

Regardless of what it is, I like it ::g
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Re: Big holey stone amid lithic site

Post by Lowland » Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:33 pm

Ladybird66 wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:02 am
I had the same thought, poss a mortar but the interior looks a bit oneven for that.
I’ve seen many examples of stones with holes in them on beaches. It’s amazing what water can do. Don’t be surprised by finding things out of context. I found a Sharks tooth in a field and I don’t think it was a charm against evil as info suggested. It was covered in a thin layer of sediment with tiny crustations mixed in.
This land we live on now has been under water a few times in its history.
Occasionally we’re lucky enough to find reminders.
If your like me your stone will join a few others in a garden feature. :D
Hi LB
It’s easily the biggest non bedrock stone inthe field that I can see.
It’s on my scotch chest-looks grand ::g
If I’d seen it on a beach ,I would have walked past it :)
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Re: Big holey stone amid lithic site

Post by Ladybird66 » Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:54 pm

Ah, now there I’ve got you beat. I have a garden water feature, standing on concrete camouflaged by stones and gravel. Got one or two oddities in there. The others are mostly small and sit on the window ledge :D
I showed that Coprolite to one of Hubbies friends the other day. Didn’t tell him what it was, just asked him if he’d seen anything like it. His face was a real picture when I told what he was holding :-O

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Re: Big holey stone amid lithic site

Post by Lowland » Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:14 pm

Saki wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:18 am
Big Holey stone.... or Holy stone.....


"... round hollow in a stone, or a bowl) is applied to boulders of stone or bedrock with hemispherical hollows or basin-like depressions, which may have functioned as mortars. They are frequently associated with ecclesiastical sites and holy wells and so may have been used for religious purposes. Other examples which do not appear to have ecclesiastical associations can be found in bedrock or outcrop in upland contexts, often under blanket bog, and are known as bedrock mortars. They date from the prehistoric period to the early medieval period (5th-12th centuries AD)."

Known also as "cure or curse" stones.
In Scotland, theybare known as Butterlump stones
In Ireland:Bullian stones

Regardless of what it is, I like it ::g
Good info saki ::g
Even if it’s nowt -
I’m reading up on stuff i might not have done otherwise.
Given the location it was found I think it’s been repurposed ;)
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Re: Big holey stone amid lithic site

Post by Saki » Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:34 pm

This is one from Chapeltoun, Ayrshire ::g
Think yours is nicer
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Re: Big holey stone amid lithic site

Post by Oxgirl36 » Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:13 pm

Could it be a fire starter? You put the kindling in and twist a stick. The roughness would then make sense. Just a thought but it feels like it could be from what i can see... :-/
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Re: Big holey stone amid lithic site

Post by Lowland » Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:22 pm

Saki wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:34 pm
This is one from Chapeltoun, Ayrshire ::g
Think yours is nicer
I’ve got the portable version :D
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Re: Big holey stone amid lithic site

Post by Lowland » Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:24 pm

Oxgirl36 wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:13 pm
Could it be a fire starter? You put the kindling in and twist a stick. The roughness would then make sense. Just a thought but it feels like it could be from what i can see... :-/
Hi oxgirl-I am going to sagely agree it could be :D
Now off to google them ::g
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Re: Big holey stone amid lithic site

Post by Ladybird66 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:11 am

Oxgirl36 wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:13 pm
Oxgirl36 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:13 pm
Could it be a fire starter? You put the kindling in and twist a stick. The roughness would then make sense. Just a thought but it feels like it could be from what i can see...
Hi oxgirl-I am going to sagely agree it could be
Now off to google them
That’s a brilliant idea Cath. It would explain, as you said, the inside and also the black burn marks on the outside. It’d have my vote ::g

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Re: Big holey stone amid lithic site

Post by Lowland » Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:13 am

Ladybird66 wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:11 am
Oxgirl36 wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:13 pm
Oxgirl36 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:13 pm
Could it be a fire starter? You put the kindling in and twist a stick. The roughness would then make sense. Just a thought but it feels like it could be from what i can see...
Hi oxgirl-I am going to sagely agree it could be
Now off to google them
That’s a brilliant idea Cath. It would explain, as you said, the inside and also the black burn marks on the outside. It’d have my vote ::g
It’s pretty big compared to others I can see so far but not an impossibility
By the sound of it,the people who lived in prehistoric times were highly resourceful by necessity!
So if they found this stone I betcha it got used.
Seems a helluva co-incidence to find it in a field of gravelly soil
Slap bang in the middle of an area of considerable early activity.
I might give it a bash and see if it works ::g
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Re: Big holey stone amid lithic site

Post by Oxgirl36 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:26 am

Lowland wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:13 am

I might give it a bash and see if it works ::g
Oh please do - you’ll need really dry stuff like wood shavings or dry grass :D

Sure you knew that rl;
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Re: Big holey stone amid lithic site

Post by Lowland » Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:26 am

Oxgirl36 wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:26 am
Lowland wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:13 am

I might give it a bash and see if it works ::g
Oh please do - you’ll need really dry stuff like wood shavings or dry grass :D

Sure you knew that rl;
It’s the elbow grease that might be lacking a bit :D
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Re: Big holey stone amid lithic site

Post by Ladybird66 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:07 pm

Maybe a fly in the ointment but didn’t they use flints for striking ? There were enough of them around judging from Rory’s found.

Love to see you trying the stick method :D

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Re: Big holey stone amid lithic site

Post by Lowland » Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:11 pm

Ladybird66 wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:07 pm
Maybe a fly in the ointment but didn’t they use flints for striking ? There were enough of them around judging from Rory’s found.

Love to see you trying the stick method :D
That’s a very good point ladybird :))
As for the stick method-it’s on my list..
The more I look at it I’m coming around to an open circuit fat lamp-
That’s one I could try without risk of expiring.
::g
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Re: Big holey stone amid lithic site

Post by Lowland » Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:50 pm

Fat lamp stone idea revisited-
Bashed and pleated nettle stem and dry moss
With fat through it for the wick.
Lump of atora suet in the recess.
Few minutes to get it interested
and ten minutes later still burning beautifully,
With a very steady flame
::g ::g
Bingo
Still going 20 minutes on....
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Re: We have fire!!fat lamp experiment Big holey stone amid lithic site

Post by littleboot » Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:33 pm

Great thread.....tell you what, a stone like that could have been used for any of those purposes listed....and maybe some more besides. So many stones have been looked at cos they are a good size, or flat enough for a hearth or round enough for a hammer or have a useful hole for hanging on a loom or weighing down a rope....or a well in the middle like yours for, well, oodles of things. Different people down the ages could have picked that up just like you did. Or, on the other hand, you are the first person to do so.
Either way, its got a story now hasn't it?
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Re: We have fire!!fat lamp experiment Big holey stone amid lithic site

Post by Lowland » Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:42 pm

littleboot wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:33 pm
Great thread.....tell you what, a stone like that could have been used for any of those purposes listed....and maybe some more besides. So many stones have been looked at cos they are a good size, or flat enough for a hearth or round enough for a hammer or have a useful hole for hanging on a loom or weighing down a rope....or a well in the middle like yours for, well, oodles of things. Different people down the ages could have picked that up just like you did. Or, on the other hand, you are the first person to do so.
Either way, its got a story now hasn't it?
Cheers LB ::g
It certainly has...been out for a bit and the flame apparently lasted a total of 45 minutes.
Thumbs up for the nettle and moss wick set up.
Will have it fired up at the table for tea time...got Auroch steaks :D
then maybe some flint knapping.
Cheers
Rory
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Re: We have fire!!fat lamp experiment Big holey stone amid lithic site

Post by littleboot » Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:52 pm

What? No woolly rhino? Cheapskate. :D
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Re: We have fire!!fat lamp experiment Big holey stone amid lithic site

Post by Lowland » Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:58 pm

littleboot wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:52 pm
What? No woolly rhino? Cheapskate. :D
Nobbled one of them 2 months ago-kids are bored of it :D
There’s only so many ways you can cook it ::g
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Re: We have fire!!fat lamp experiment Big holey stone amid lithic site

Post by Ladybird66 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:04 pm

Hats off to you for ingenuity Rory.

Looks like at least one idea worked well. Hope you involved your lad in the experiment.

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Re: We have fire!!fat lamp experiment Big holey stone amid lithic site

Post by Lowland » Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:10 pm

Ladybird66 wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:04 pm
Hats off to you for ingenuity Rory.

Looks like at least one idea worked well. Hope you involved your lad in the experiment.
Ta ladybird,
The problem was keeping them off the experiment :D
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Re: We have fire!!fat lamp experiment Big holey stone amid lithic site

Post by oldartefact » Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:29 pm

Looking at the original pics the central pit looks more recently formed than the outer depression .. so I would go for a pestle and mortar affair, guessing that a natural object was used for purposeful human activity... but all conjecture .. I dont go with the lamp thing, as the central pit is conjoined to the upper depression via a vertical worn surface. ie. where the pestle rubbed against the mortar.
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Re: We have fire!!fat lamp experiment Big holey stone amid lithic site

Post by Lowland » Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:32 pm

oldartefact wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:29 pm
Looking at the original pics the central pit looks more recently formed than the outer depression .. so I would go for a pestle and mortar affair, guessing that a natural object was used for purposeful human activity... but all conjecture .. I dont go with the lamp thing, as the central pit is conjoined to the upper depression via a vertical worn surface. ie. where the pestle rubbed against the mortar.
Hi OA
That’s a good analysis...you make a good point.
Makes sense ::g
It’s a fat lamp now-hope the council archaeologist doesn’t give me a ticking off
When they get to see the chert tools and debitage from the same site..
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Re: We have fire!!fat lamp experiment Big holey stone amid lithic site

Post by cantona1 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:17 pm

I love it, brilliant post ::g

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Re: We have fire!!fat lamp experiment Big holey stone amid lithic site

Post by Dom » Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:45 pm

So a human finds an unusual yet useful looking stone and makes a use for it, even in these days. That just makes me feel warm and happy to think we still have that something our ancestors had.

Great post.
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Re: We have fire!!fat lamp experiment Big holey stone amid lithic site

Post by stanslad » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:24 pm

Interesting stone & well found,
I thought a small plague stone, that would be filled with vinegar, then coins left in it outside a diseased village, hamlet etc, to pay for the food delivered & left there by outsiders or merchants,
the vinegar was thought to stop the disease being passed on by the coins.
But it may be a bit small for that?
Clint :-/

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Re: We have fire!!fat lamp experiment Big holey stone amid lithic site

Post by Oxgirl36 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:11 pm

I just love that you’ve had fun trying to work it out. Proper attempt too ::g

Good job :D
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