In case you are interested... seal matrix test...

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In case you are interested... seal matrix test...

Post by HolzHammer » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:19 pm

Evening All,
The sealing wax arrived today so could finally test the now hopefully thoroughly "toothpicked" cleaned seal matrix I found on Sunday...
I think malph is right and it reads "LEL AMI AVET" a not uncommon seal motto I believe - I am not used to reading these and it doesn't come naturally so I may be missing something - anyway after a few attempts I think I got a nice imprint and am really pleased with the crispness of the result.
Thanks for reading!
All the B
A
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Re: In case you are interested... seal matrix test...

Post by hartsman » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:28 pm

Nicely done. ::g

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Re: In case you are interested... seal matrix test...

Post by fred » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:29 pm

That's come out very nicely! ::g
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Re: In case you are interested... seal matrix test...

Post by Shaneb3 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:29 pm

That's a lovely seal. Amazing how it's still so crisp in the wax. They're definitely on the top of my to find list. Thanks for sharing this ::g

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Re: In case you are interested... seal matrix test...

Post by Lowland » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:33 pm

Looks great ::g
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Re: In case you are interested... seal matrix test...

Post by WeatherWitch » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:56 pm

Looks brand new! ::g
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Re: In case you are interested... seal matrix test...

Post by Ten pence! » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:02 pm

Is there any history on the actual use of these things? I can recall that some historians once claimed that many people did not use money and instead bartered and haggled to get the basics of life, by the same token what use would a peasant have for a seal? Would he have contracts? Do deals etc that needed an impression on a bit of parchment? Or were they used perhaps as a seal of quality or approval on agricultural produce?

One thing has become clear to me, we mostly detect fields and the losses we find would have happened because the lower orders were out in those fields toiling! The sheer number of Medieval low value coins we find tells me that just about everyone used coinage, the same with these seals, they must have belonged to the poor and had a real and practical use in daily life.

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Re: In case you are interested... seal matrix test...

Post by Tetra73 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:10 pm

it's nice to see it used for what it was intended for after so many years even if it was only a test

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Re: In case you are interested... seal matrix test...

Post by HolzHammer » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:21 pm

Tetra73 wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:10 pm
it's nice to see it used for what it was intended for after so many years even if it was only a test
It has to be a test for the time being as I don't have a secret lover to use it with since I think thats the connotation of the legend "LEL AMI AVET"....

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Re: In case you are interested... seal matrix test...

Post by peteh » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:23 pm

That is brilliant lovely impression ::g
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Re: In case you are interested... seal matrix test...

Post by lonecoiler » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:34 pm

A really good sharp impression. You could personalise your Xmas cards.
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Re: In case you are interested... seal matrix test...

Post by Saki » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:36 pm

Such a lovely item. This is on my wish list ::g
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Re: In case you are interested... seal matrix test...

Post by Ladybird66 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:49 pm

On my wish list as well. It’s such a personal thing to find.
The impression came out very well, amazing.

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Re: In case you are interested... seal matrix test...

Post by jph » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:28 pm

Another one for my list. What a great find.

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Re: In case you are interested... seal matrix test...

Post by SuperRed » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:31 pm

What a beautiful image that second photo is - pure history!! Thanks ::g
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Re: In case you are interested... seal matrix test...

Post by Oxgirl36 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:32 pm

Love it when someone does a nice imprint. Did you freeze the seal first? Its supposed to give the best imprint and minimise the risk to the seal getting damaged.

Very jealous. A beautiful find and very high on my wish list too l;.
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Re: In case you are interested... seal matrix test...

Post by f8met » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:30 am

Funny, I did the same with mine yesterday. It is better to leave the wax to cool a little I found and I really panicked when I lifted the seal to find a disc of wax covering the face of the seal. I carefully pealed it off to leave a lovely impressed disc. I guess that is why freezing it will help the wax cool faster.
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Re: In case you are interested... seal matrix test...

Post by SuperRed » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:39 am

f8met wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:30 am
Funny, I did the same with mine yesterday. It is better to leave the wax to cool a little I found and I really panicked when I lifted the seal to find a disc of wax covering the face of the seal. I carefully pealed it off to leave a lovely impressed disc. I guess that is why freezing it will help the wax cool faster.
Love to see a pic Dave ::g
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Re: In case you are interested... seal matrix test...

Post by sweepstick47 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:32 pm

Ten pence! wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:02 pm
Is there any history on the actual use of these things? I can recall that some historians once claimed that many people did not use money and instead bartered and haggled to get the basics of life, by the same token what use would a peasant have for a seal? Would he have contracts? Do deals etc that needed an impression on a bit of parchment? Or were they used perhaps as a seal of quality or approval on agricultural produce?

One thing has become clear to me, we mostly detect fields and the losses we find would have happened because the lower orders were out in those fields toiling! The sheer number of Medieval low value coins we find tells me that just about everyone used coinage, the same with these seals, they must have belonged to the poor and had a real and practical use in daily life.
Hello Ten pence and HolzHammer, ::g I haven't looked the subject up, so it's just my take on the issue. I've always understood that seals were primarily introduced as a form of guarantee for the security of official documentation and there's undeniable proof of this in important documents.

Seals also confirmed the title of the issuing authority and I'm sure that in some cases they were also used purely as a means of elevating personal status in the eyes of others (keeping up with the Jones' of the day)!

In practice, is it also a possibility they were used as an alternative to placing an 'X' as a means of 'sealing' a verbal agreement (as in a handshake) by those who were incapable of producing their own signature? Regards ss47 ::g
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Re: In case you are interested... seal matrix test...

Post by Wessexlad » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:38 pm

HolzHammer wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:21 pm
Tetra73 wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:10 pm
it's nice to see it used for what it was intended for after so many years even if it was only a test
It has to be a test for the time being as I don't have a secret lover to use it with since I think thats the connotation of the legend "LEL AMI AVET"....
It means 'you have a loyal friend' apparently.
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Re: In case you are interested... seal matrix test...

Post by Ray » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:43 pm

That is superb. In fact the image and the seal itself both take a lot of beating. I'm not jealous! I've always been this colour!!!
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Re: In case you are interested... seal matrix test...

Post by Lucky2018 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:32 pm

WOW what a brilliant find well done. well jealous ..... do you have pic of what it was like before full cleanup? ::g
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Re: In case you are interested... seal matrix test...

Post by JBM » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:35 pm

Well done.

I found one some years back with a tonsured priest head on it and the Latin read "This Is The Seal of Thomas the Chaplain".

I traced it with professional help to St Marys, Wedmore in Somerset where Thomas was the first Chaplain in the year 1311.

His Glebe was fairly nearby where I found it.

Its worth researching these seals.

Jerry.

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Re: In case you are interested... seal matrix test...

Post by Phil2401 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:28 pm

f8met wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:30 am
Funny, I did the same with mine yesterday. It is better to leave the wax to cool a little I found and I really panicked when I lifted the seal to find a disc of wax covering the face of the seal. I carefully pealed it off to leave a lovely impressed disc. I guess that is why freezing it will help the wax cool faster.
Yep don't push the seal into 'wet' melted wax - give it 10-20 seconds till it starts to set a little :)

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Re: In case you are interested... seal matrix test...

Post by bryan162 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:11 pm

I love finding a seal matrix,some are generic legends but occasionally you can find a personnel one and bring a name from the past to life once more ::g

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Re: In case you are interested... seal matrix test...

Post by Ten pence! » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:01 pm

sweepstick47 wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:32 pm
Ten pence! wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:02 pm
Is there any history on the actual use of these things? I can recall that some historians once claimed that many people did not use money and instead bartered and haggled to get the basics of life, by the same token what use would a peasant have for a seal? Would he have contracts? Do deals etc that needed an impression on a bit of parchment? Or were they used perhaps as a seal of quality or approval on agricultural produce?

One thing has become clear to me, we mostly detect fields and the losses we find would have happened because the lower orders were out in those fields toiling! The sheer number of Medieval low value coins we find tells me that just about everyone used coinage, the same with these seals, they must have belonged to the poor and had a real and practical use in daily life.
Hello Ten pence and HolzHammer, ::g I haven't looked the subject up, so it's just my take on the issue. I've always understood that seals were primarily introduced as a form of guarantee for the security of official documentation and there's undeniable proof of this in important documents.

Seals also confirmed the title of the issuing authority and I'm sure that in some cases they were also used purely as a means of elevating personal status in the eyes of others (keeping up with the Jones' of the day)!

In practice, is it also a possibility they were used as an alternative to placing an 'X' as a means of 'sealing' a verbal agreement (as in a handshake) by those who were incapable of producing their own signature? Regards ss47 ::g

I have looked it up but found nothing worth reporting! I find three or four of these seals every season, in fact I'd go as far as to say they are quite a common find here in Norfolk, other local detectorists tell me the same.

They all seem to have a suspension loop as well, this leads me to suspect they were worn around the neck in much the same way as jewellery is these days, this might explain why they are so common, if you kept the thing in a box at home for occasional use why bother with the loop?

Anyway I'll probably be shot down in flames by academia at some point but I just get the feeling these little seals were very common and might not have been just used for sealing documents etc, and as you mentioned, and given the fact most people could not read or write, they could also have been a step up from scrawling a cross on a bit of parchment!

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Re: In case you are interested... seal matrix test...

Post by Ollie K » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:09 am

Lovely stuff! I'd LOVE to find a seal matrix. l;.
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Re: In case you are interested... seal matrix test...

Post by 4bleepssake » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:18 am

That looks fantastic, great results HH....well done ::g
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