Strangely empty

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Saki
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Strangely empty

Post by Saki » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:21 pm

Back again to my early 17th C house. Lovely farmer, but he only owns the house and approx 15 -20 acres. And strangely does not own the field on the gable of the house. (Which would probably have been the Gentry side of the house, and South facing)
I have spent a long fruitless number of hrs/days in this well tucked away permission. Landowner says it has never been detected. The thing is, the fields are empty... a few musket balls, a few buckles, lead, lead and some more lead, a hem weight, a spindle whorl, a few 19thC pennies. Even today, a "lucky" possibly victorian childs CAT brooch (See photo below) and a 1996 10p. Wooohooo. After 4 hrs pulling my hair out even the 10p warranted a dance.

Now this is the same place I had serious problems with my 400i going mental as soon as it was turned on. (See 400i brainfart post). Turns out the electric fence was not only on, but he had it earthing on numerous places. Even today, with the electric fence off. The 400i was really erratic 37-99-87 -65 repeat. Really done my head in. Changed fields and it got better, well bearable.
I have done serious research on this permission and feel as if there really should be "hoards" of stuff. Instead, its as if there has been a month of club digs or rallies on it. (I know for a fact there hasnt). Only other factor is I was asking the farmer today and he has never in his lifetime done a deep plough on any of his land. (He has a small tractor, and done sections for crops, but in his words" probably 6-7 inch soil turning"). He did also tell me that a number of years back that on his biggest field, the yard supplying his "lime" apparently made some mistake and it basically killed everything on his fields. To compensate, they contracted a company in to fertilize. Looking back through older satelite images, I did come across a strange looking field (looked burnt). I have read on MDF that fertiliser can destroy finds. Wonder if this makes a difference?

I suppose what I'm waffling on about is that even with all the research, you can still just tumble around permissions and realise that past users had zips or deeper pockets and never dropped anything.
And no matter how disappointing I feel today went, I'm still convinced that there should be more finds. And I'll probably head back again.
(And the field on his gable may be the one. ..)
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Re: Strangely empty

Post by Oxgirl36 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:39 pm

Love the cat! l;.

Weird how some fields should deliver loads but others are shy things and hide their treasures. I have a DMV, completely undetected but with very few finds. Sometimes it is was it is.

Or maybe you’ve not reached the hotspot yet? Keep going I’m sure there’ll be a few other nice finds there ::g
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Re: Strangely empty

Post by Twit » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:54 pm

Some places are like that, for reasons we might only guess at.

I know in Spain and Portugal for example, Spain not only obliterated what it could after the reconquest, but also both set to basically ploughing up and terracing vast expanses of countryside, mountain sides, forest... everything... large errosion took place and deep silted over a lot of land, plus the hill and mountain sides are often shale, meaning items don't sink... unless ploughed under.

I always wonder how fast anything really sinks also, depends on the soil type I suppose.

Oh well...only thing I can suggest is a deeper machine to test ( pi machines will have you busy digging if there is anything deeper :D ) .

Fertilizer does corrode metals quite fast, makes a mess of some ( especially copper based... not sure for silver) , but guess a copper coin would still be part there after a couple of decades of fertilizer use.

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Re: Strangely empty

Post by Easylife » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:01 pm

I had similar concerns about the lack of targets on my first visit to some previously undetected land. It turns out that in 1799 the village only had 19 labourers for all of the surrounding fields and there was poverty after that, so they probably did not have much to lose, which logically makes sense to me. :)
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Re: Strangely empty

Post by Saki » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:07 pm

Oxgirl36 wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:39 pm
Love the cat! l;.
... Sometimes it is was it is.

Or maybe you’ve not reached the hotspot yet? Keep going I’m sure there’ll be a few other nice finds there ::g
Oxgirl, I Read the " Sometimes it is what it is " nodding agreement... then read the hotspot bit and again nodded agreement. 😄😃😄 I am a glutton for punishment. I will be back on this permission again
Twit wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:54 pm
Some places are like that, for reasons we might only guess at.
...
I always wonder how fast anything really sinks also, depends on the soil type I suppose.

Oh well...only thing I can suggest is a deeper machine to test ( pi machines will have you busy digging if there is anything deeper :D ) .
Often wondered the same TWIT. And have considered a deeper machine. Might try to convince the farmer to plough 😆
Last edited by Saki on Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Strangely empty

Post by Saki » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:11 pm

Easylife wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:01 pm
I had similar concerns about the lack of targets on my first visit to some previously undetected land. It turns out that in 1799 the village only had 19 labourers for all of the surrounding fields and there was poverty after that, so they probably did not have much to lose, which logically makes sense to me. :)
In all the research i have done on this house and area, this makes the most sense to me EASYLIFE.
I do know that the old Gentry tried to employ at least 1 member from every household in the area. And were very well respected. Poverty was rife in this particular area. So if they didn't have it,they couldnt drop it.
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Re: Strangely empty

Post by Easylife » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:27 pm

Saki wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:07 pm
And have considered a deeper machine. Might try to convince the farmer to plough 😆
But if it just ain't there to find in the first place it does not matter what you do. If you were at least getting some decent older finds on there then it may be worth possibly considering the PI approach, but not just on a whim. Hammies don't seem to sink much, but they do need to be lost in the first place. Good luck if you ask the farmer to plough it, many do not like the cost. :D
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Re: Strangely empty

Post by Saki » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:39 pm

Easylife wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:27 pm
Saki wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:07 pm
And have considered a deeper machine. Might try to convince the farmer to plough 😆
But if it just ain't there to find in the first place it does not matter what you do. If you were at least getting some decent older finds on there then it may be worth possibly considering the PI approach, but not just on a whim. Hammies don't seem to sink much, but they do need to be lost in the first place. Good luck if you ask the farmer to plough it, many do not like the cost. :D
No way would the farmer plough. (He hasn't so far in his career) Just me wishful thinking. 😂
I really have tried everywhere on this permission. Even the orchard behind the house. (That was the most dissapointing, as in my head, this would be a place the owners may have frequented... nothing really of note found)
If it's not in it, it cannot be found.
I will seek permission on the "gable" field though before throwing in the towel 👍👍
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Re: Strangely empty

Post by Easylife » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:07 am

Saki wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:39 pm
Easylife wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:27 pm
Saki wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:07 pm
And have considered a deeper machine. Might try to convince the farmer to plough 😆
But if it just ain't there to find in the first place it does not matter what you do. If you were at least getting some decent older finds on there then it may be worth possibly considering the PI approach, but not just on a whim. Hammies don't seem to sink much, but they do need to be lost in the first place. Good luck if you ask the farmer to plough it, many do not like the cost. :D
No way would the farmer plough. (He hasn't so far in his career) Just me wishful thinking. 😂
I really have tried everywhere on this permission. Even the orchard behind the house. (That was the most dissapointing, as in my head, this would be a place the owners may have frequented... nothing really of note found)
If it's not in it, it cannot be found.
I will seek permission on the "gable" field though before throwing in the towel 👍👍
Your Garrett 400i is a good machine, I regularly see many quite impressive finds from users of them, so no probs there. It sounds like maybe it is just not there though. Things are often just not how we expect them to be, but often just turn up quite unexpectedly. If social activity took place in the gable field then that's where it will be. Part of the fun is in the research even if it does not sometimes pay off. Best of luck.
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Re: Strangely empty

Post by Saffron » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:14 am

It happens time and time again. We do the research and locate a permission with lots of "history" that should produce loads of nice finds and it produces basically sod all.
While a short distance away a field with no history produces the good finds.

Lots of rural areas really were very poor and it was just a single big house with a few farm workers in the immediate area who struggled to get by, in these circumstances there was not a lot to be lost to start with. Then you have the lack of ploughing and the problems with the lime and fertiliser that could have destroyed items that cuould have been dropped.

It does not matter how good a detector you have nor how experienced a detectorist you are if its not there to start with you can not find it.

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Re: Strangely empty

Post by Twit » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:14 am

Buying a deeper machine is not really the answer... other vlf machines behave differently, might add a couple of inches or disc better , but if you get on with yours it is not worth changing it...there are several detectorists who use decade or more old machines, swear by them and know them, and are quite happy that way. The only ones which wil give you a big jump in depth are pi, but they are medium to very expensive, often heavy, don't disc. as well or at all... which means lots of digging for maybe nothing... they have certain uses but not as average everyday go to machines. I just mentioned looking deeper as that was all I could suggest. If you get the opportunity to test other machines then by all means, but otherwise it is easier to just search more carefully or keep on moving... also it is nice sometimes to leave a place for a while until you feel in a different mood to try it again :) .

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Re: Strangely empty

Post by Dodo » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:57 am

ive got a permission where the landowner is 99% sure that a german plane came down. Been detecting there for 3 months and so far only buttons and 1900+ coins but nothing from a plane.
I do think that sometimes where you think that you will find the most you won't find anything making you dance...

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Re: Strangely empty

Post by Saki » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:05 am

Saffron wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:14 am
...It does not matter how good a detector you have nor how experienced a detectorist you are if its not there to start with you can not find it.
So true Evan
Twit wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:14 am
... also it is nice sometimes to leave a place for a while until you feel in a different mood to try it again :) .
Twit, I think mood has a lot to do with it. When the 400i was going up and down the scale, I actually shouted at it a number of times to stop and shut up!!. So mood wasn't great. Will leave it for a while and wait for the turn of the tide and new moon
Dodo wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:57 am
ive got a permission where the landowner is 99% sure that a german plane came down. Been detecting there for 3 months and so far only buttons and 1900+ coins but nothing from a plane.
I do think that sometimes where you think that you will find the most you won't find anything making you dance...
Oh, looking forward to hearing about any future finds regarding the plane Dodo
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Re: Strangely empty

Post by Bfg » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:39 am

Interesting topic. I'm a newbie so please excuse me if I'm suggesting somethings dumb..

'lucky cat' looks remarkably similar to that on my parents wedding card from 1954.

re. not finding. Is it possible to adjust your machine to a setting or swapping to another coil which you wouldn't normally even consider using for that sort of ground, just to see if the lime (which does in excess does cause a lawn to burn and die) or subsequent fertilizer had minerals concentrates which are throwing your machine off balance ? ie., might it be worth throwing a wide ball ?

re. nothing there to find. I wonder if the former owners happened to have been a family line of only single children, and otherwise were intellectual &/or sickly-type recluses who never ventured very far from their study. ? I had a Victorian grandmother who was strict in where children (me and my brothers) might not 'play' in and around the house, and remember being told to 'keep off the lawn'. Likewise, there are many films where the strict head of a family is portrayed as allowing only the most 'proper' behaviour, And not allowing such sloppy public (in front of staff) display of enjoying anything or the 'noise' of laughter. ?

re. depth. Surely, if your machine detects down to 8" then there is no advantage of turning the soil over to that same depth ? I'm just asking ..because I don't know.

Bfg ::g
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Re: Strangely empty

Post by Saki » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:04 pm

Bfg wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:39 am
...I wonder if the former owners happened to have been a family line of only single children, and otherwise were intellectual &/or sickly-type recluses who never ventured very far from their study. ? I had a Victorian grandmother who was strict in where children (me and my brothers) might not 'play' in and around the house, and remember being told to 'keep off the lawn'. Likewise, there are many films where the strict head of a family is portrayed as allowing only the most 'proper' behaviour, And not allowing such sloppy public (in front of staff) display of enjoying anything or the 'noise' of laughter. ?
...
Spot on with the recluse part.BFG
The farmer is a bachelor, living with his spinster sister. Both elderly
Both are very reclusive. Children of an only son, who along with his father and his grandfather and generations before worked for the people in the "Big House".
The original owners of the "House" were a family who go back to early 17th Century and finally left the area in 1910. After the Major died. Even found the will of the Major who left over £10,000 to each of his two sons and the house and some other properties to the daughter. The daughter left the house to the senior staff in 1930's. Very interesting read. My Permission was then taken over by the senior staff member and have lived there since.
I would say the Household may have been a quiet place to live.
And it really is off the beaten track. No through roads or paths. So no big footfall.
Just had hoped, being the age it is, it would have produced a little bit more.

Makes you think who it will be left to next.... Often wondered how some houses/land just becomes a place left to nature
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Re: Strangely empty

Post by Bfg » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:52 pm

.
a lovely reply - thank you.

It just goes to show that even without artifact or coin being found, a fascinating insight into the social history of a place might be better understood, by detecting. Brilliant ! ::g
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Re: Strangely empty

Post by fred » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:36 pm

We had one like that. Naff all on most of it except a small hoard of Roman gold and silver coins after 2 years of enjoyable but fairly unproductive detecting! :D
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Re: Strangely empty

Post by Twit » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:40 pm

Bfg wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:39 am


re. depth. Surely, if your machine detects down to 8" then there is no advantage of turning the soil over to that same depth ? I'm just asking ..because I don't know.

Bfg ::g
It might make a difference... small objects brought into range, moving iron masking good targets, turning objects on edge to lay flat, etc. ... but not necessarily :) .

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Re: Strangely empty

Post by Saki » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:36 pm

fred wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:36 pm
We had one like that. Naff all on most of it except a small hoard of Roman gold and silver coins after 2 years of enjoyable but fairly unproductive detecting! :D
This tickled me Fred. 😀😁😂
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