Rag, Fairy, wishing, kissing, coin Tree

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Rag, Fairy, wishing, kissing, coin Tree

Post by Saki » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:09 pm

On two of my permissions there are Rag trees. And wether you are superstitious or not, is it, like me somewhere you avoid?
Rag/wishing/fairy trees go back to ancient times and even to this day, where ever you find them, they are still used.
Do you have one near you?
Are you aware that these exist?

I have looked at the fascinating history and I'm aware of a few in Scotland and a lot in Ireland. Also Cumbria and Wales.

Any chance you could stick up an image of the one near you?

I would certainly scan the "route" path to and from it. But would never M.D. under or around it. I treat it almost as an historic site and give a wide berth.
What's your thoughts?

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Re: Rag, Fairy, wishing, kissing, coin Tree

Post by jeap » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:47 pm

I posted about taking coins that had wishes cast on them a while back - stillburning posted an interesting coin tree thing (see image in below link)

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=91935

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Re: Rag, Fairy, wishing, kissing, coin Tree

Post by geoman » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:56 pm

I have seen a few of these over the years. Their locations tend to have an air of reverence about them. One i looked at in North Wales was buried away in a quiet woodland area next to a natural spring just off a footpath to a beach i was going to detect on.

Some of the offerings had photos and messages attached one of which was a sad request for help for a very sick child so people still cling to the beliefs of the past. I have no problem with that and have a great deal of respect for our ancestor's beliefs. There were many modern coins spread about the base of the tree along with pre-decimal pennies embedded in its base.

I hope no one would ever think of taking these.

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Re: Rag, Fairy, wishing, kissing, coin Tree

Post by Saki » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:00 pm

jeap wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:47 pm
I posted about taking coins that had wishes cast on them a while back - stillburning posted an interesting coin tree thing (see image in below link)

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=91935
Interesting. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. The coin tree is popular in places in Scotland and the borders . ::g 100 years seems fair enough. But still think with the greatest respect, I would avoid.
geoman wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:56 pm
...Their locations tend to have an air of reverence about them. One i looked at in North Wales was buried away in a quiet woodland area next to a natural spring just off a footpath to a beach i was going to detect on.

I hope no one would ever think of taking these.
I agree Geoman
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Re: Rag, Fairy, wishing, kissing, coin Tree

Post by Arch Stanton » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:40 pm

That's really interesting, I'd never heard of these before. I agree that I wouldn't detect under it - it'd be like taking coins out of a wishing well!
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Re: Rag, Fairy, wishing, kissing, coin Tree

Post by Saki » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:13 pm

Arch Stanton wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:40 pm
That's really interesting, I'd never heard of these before. I agree that I wouldn't detect under it - it'd be like taking coins out of a wishing well!
I wonder, now that you know of them, will you spot them. Its like when a friend buys (for talking sake) a "SAAB" car. You then spot lots of them
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Re: Rag, Fairy, wishing, kissing, coin Tree

Post by Oxgirl36 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:36 pm

There is a lovely one at Avebury. It’s in the fields where the standing stones are. It has a magic feel to it and I always find them fascinating. I hadn’t googled it before to find out more but you prompted me to know more with this post. Here’s what it says...

The Mighty Ones, The Elders, The Prayer Tree
The trees around Avebury are seen very sacred, especially this circlet of trees up atop the dyke/fortification that serves as the outer boundary of Avebury. Here, the trees look mystifying, elderly, knowledgable, and powerful. It is here that people of all faiths make offerings to their gods, sometimes by putting fragments of cloth, flags or other offerings in trees as prayers or wishes. The ribbons, cloth, medallions, and fairies tied to these branches are such offerings. Some used in spells, others in prayers, others in wishes – all for the effect of gaining that which is asked for. It’s similar to the money tree or wish tree. Especially powerful practice in the Pagan traditions during the celebration of Oimelc (Feb 2 or 3 (depending on astrological date) – a.k.a. Brigid’s Mass or Day) if you leave out strips of cloth or ribbon tied to a tree or to a door, Bride or Brigit will bless them as she passes giving them healing properties.
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Re: Rag, Fairy, wishing, kissing, coin Tree

Post by oldartefact » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:06 pm

Oxgirl36 wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:36 pm
There is a lovely one at Avebury. It’s in the fields where the standing stones are. It has a magic feel to it and I always find them fascinating. I hadn’t googled it before to find out more but you prompted me to know more with this post. Here’s what it says...

The Mighty Ones, The Elders, The Prayer Tree
The trees around Avebury are seen very sacred, especially this circlet of trees up atop the dyke/fortification that serves as the outer boundary of Avebury. Here, the trees look mystifying, elderly, knowledgable, and powerful. It is here that people of all faiths make offerings to their gods, sometimes by putting fragments of cloth, flags or other offerings in trees as prayers or wishes. The ribbons, cloth, medallions, and fairies tied to these branches are such offerings. Some used in spells, others in prayers, others in wishes – all for the effect of gaining that which is asked for. It’s similar to the money tree or wish tree. Especially powerful practice in the Pagan traditions during the celebration of Oimelc (Feb 2 or 3 (depending on astrological date) – a.k.a. Brigid’s Mass or Day) if you leave out strips of cloth or ribbon tied to a tree or to a door, Bride or Brigit will bless them as she passes giving them healing properties.
And there is another one on the path to the Kennet and Avon Long Barrow, must admit that i do find them a bit weird. The ex-step mum goes in for this sort of thing, she plays some weird sort of drum, goes off to communes for the week-end, and is a shaman, I sometimes wonder whether she hangs this stuff out, but I am too embarrassed to ask (for fear of causing offence).
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Re: Rag, Fairy, wishing, kissing, coin Tree

Post by Fishwick » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:53 pm

geoman wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:56 pm
I have seen a few of these over the years. Their locations tend to have an air of reverence about them. One i looked at in North Wales was buried away in a quiet woodland area next to a natural spring just off a footpath to a beach i was going to detect on.

Some of the offerings had photos and messages attached one of which was a sad request for help for a very sick child so people still cling to the beliefs of the past. I have no problem with that and have a great deal of respect for our ancestor's beliefs. There were many modern coins spread about the base of the tree along with pre-decimal pennies embedded in its base.

I hope no one would ever think of taking these.
I too have heard of a tree with coins imbedded in it and I have a feeling it's on Anglesey.
I have seen a tree hugger recently and I wished him well.

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Re: Rag, Fairy, wishing, kissing, coin Tree

Post by Saki » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:01 pm

Oxgirl36 wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:36 pm
There is a lovely one at Avebury. It’s in the fields where the standing stones are. It has a magic feel to it and I always find them fascinating. I hadn’t googled it before to find out more but you prompted me to know more with this post. Here’s what it says...

The Mighty Ones, The Elders, The Prayer Tree
...if you leave out strips of cloth or ribbon tied to a tree or to a door, Bride or Brigit will bless them as she passes giving them healing properties.[/i]
Delighted to hear different names on them. I never heard them called this before. Delighted to hear and read about them.
Interesting Oxgirl about the Christian influence on them. I believe throughout the millenniums, Christianity has "hijacked" dates, places, "holy" wells, customs etc.
oldartefact wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:06 pm

And there is another one on the path to the Kennet and Avon Long Barrow, must admit that i do find them a bit weird. The ex-step mum goes in for this sort of thing, she plays some weird sort of drum, goes off to communes for the week-end, and is a shaman, I sometimes wonder whether she hangs this stuff out, but I am too embarrassed to ask (for fear of causing offence).
Funny too oldartefact that you get that "weird" feeling. Guess you wouldn't MD around them ( if for no other reason than the fear of hearing that drum of the ex-step mum ☺)

Fishwick wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:53 pm

I too have heard of a tree with coins imbedded in it and I have a feeling it's on Anglesey.
I have seen a tree hugger recently and I wished him well.
Love that expression
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Re: Rag, Fairy, wishing, kissing, coin Tree

Post by oldartefact » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:03 pm

Fishwick wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:53 pm
geoman wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:56 pm
I have seen a few of these over the years. Their locations tend to have an air of reverence about them. One i looked at in North Wales was buried away in a quiet woodland area next to a natural spring just off a footpath to a beach i was going to detect on.

Some of the offerings had photos and messages attached one of which was a sad request for help for a very sick child so people still cling to the beliefs of the past. I have no problem with that and have a great deal of respect for our ancestor's beliefs. There were many modern coins spread about the base of the tree along with pre-decimal pennies embedded in its base.

I hope no one would ever think of taking these.
I too have heard of a tree with coins imbedded in it and I have a feeling it's on Anglesey.
I have seen a tree hugger recently and I wished him well.
We replaced the washing machine the other day ... the old one was about 16 years old ... and the Mrs used it nearly every day ... anyhow the day came to disconnect the thing and put it outside for collection... I simply couldnt believe that the Mrs gave the thing a hug, said goodbye and patted it.
Whereas I have given 40 years loyal service, paid for everything, put food on the table, and a roof over our heads ... and all I ever get is a kick up the back side!!! ... and in her own words "i deserve it as well"!!
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Re: Rag, Fairy, wishing, kissing, coin Tree

Post by Saki » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:08 pm

oldartefact wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:03 pm

We replaced the washing machine the other day ... the old one was about 16 years old ... and the Mrs used it nearly every day ... anyhow the day came to disconnect the thing and put it outside for collection... I simply couldnt believe that the Mrs gave the thing a hug, said goodbye and patted it.
Whereas I have given 40 years loyal service, paid for everything, put food on the table, and a roof over our heads ... and all I ever get is a kick up the back side!!!
There I go laughing out loud again at MDF. Brilliant ::g
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Re: Rag, Fairy, wishing, kissing, coin Tree

Post by bleepybloopy » Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:18 am

I found a modern version of that in New Zealand at Milford Sound. Someone had been clipping baseball hats lost by tourists into the sound on boat trips to a tree, there were 100s of them!
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Re: Rag, Fairy, wishing, kissing, coin Tree

Post by Twit » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:22 am

This is a lovely theme where the feelings and impressions are very personal, mirroring in some way how anyone approaches other finds. So I can only say for myself and without judgement :

The items I find usually have a feeling to them (to me). Some feel like they have been lost and are happy to be refound, others feel abandoned but remembered, others feel still wanted, and so on.

So anything left on purpose in devotion I feel not to interfere with.

When I started detecting I had to reason this out further - what was I doing going round digging up other people's items? Are they not best left where they rest?

I still don't know the full answer to that, so I go by feeling, admiting that modern exploration, even highly disciplined, is not necessarily the right route. We are curious by nature and want to know all we are able to, it seems to make more sense documenting the past even while inevitably desecrating it in certain cases, and it is not hard to find excuse to follow that route.

Ancient burial sites for example... are they so disconnected to our modern world that they are not regarded as sanctuary, or have we chosen to become disconnected from their meaning, or indeed are we trying to reconnect, valuing them with our attention, saving them even ? Are we right to in any of those cases? How would society be/have to be to respect those as they do modern burial places?

A lot of questions, and the only answer I find is "it depends". For me it is not just a question of whether someone is present and alive who it might affect, for me everything carries part of the life of the people who were attached to it. There is no rule saying any respect for that is due either , but showing good consideration is no crime.

So for me that means if something was purposefully offered and left as that, and we know that, then to me it seems offensive to ever interfere unescessarily . Sometimes I return what I find to its place (no, not the trash) .

I am sure most of you are aware of how early rituals and celebrations were merged into or with the Christian faith. Here in Iberia that included various shrines, for example springs that received offerings would be blessed and converted to Christian symbolism, while maintaining the reverance of the site. I know there are wishing trees on the peninsula from reading, though I don't remember seeing one , there is also a sacred tree in Cataluña that was taken first to represented the religious trinity, then somehow came to represent a trinity of local states.

https://www.dolcacatalunya.com/2014/05/ ... an-en-tv3/

The Basques also have an ancient reverence for oak trees.

The shrine I had in mind in particular when reading your post (apart from Tibetan religion) is a local cave in Mijas that will have been used since prehistoric times. Now it is a chapel but still one wall is adorned with petitions, personal belongings and so on, something not found in other local churches as far as I know, except those where there have been apparitions .. I tried to find a picture of this, but any seem not to be in search. So here is just the chapel, the wall is on the right out of frame.

Ermita de la Virgen de la Peña
94241304.jpg
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Re: Rag, Fairy, wishing, kissing, coin Tree

Post by Steve_T » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:30 am

What an interesting post, just caught up with all the responses since first posted, made me think and made me chuckle

Great responses, one that could of gone off kilter but remained on point

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Re: Rag, Fairy, wishing, kissing, coin Tree

Post by rossi » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:06 pm

oldartefact wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:03 pm
Fishwick wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:53 pm
geoman wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:56 pm
I have seen a few of these over the years. Their locations tend to have an air of reverence about them. One i looked at in North Wales was buried away in a quiet woodland area next to a natural spring just off a footpath to a beach i was going to detect on.

Some of the offerings had photos and messages attached one of which was a sad request for help for a very sick child so people still cling to the beliefs of the past. I have no problem with that and have a great deal of respect for our ancestor's beliefs. There were many modern coins spread about the base of the tree along with pre-decimal pennies embedded in its base.

I hope no one would ever think of taking these.
I too have heard of a tree with coins imbedded in it and I have a feeling it's on Anglesey.
I have seen a tree hugger recently and I wished him well.
[quo/te]

Whereas I have given 40 years loyal service, paid for everything, put food on the table, and a roof over our heads We replaced the washing machine the other day ... the old one was about 16 years old ... and the Mrs used it nearly every day ... anyhow the day came to disconnect the thing and put it outside for collection... I simply couldnt believe that the Mrs gave the thing a hug, said goodbye and patted it.
... and all I ever get is a kick up the back side!!! ... and in her own words "i deserve it as well"!!
Hope you checked the washing machine for £1 coins
I have a detectorist friend who scraps all sorts of kitchen gear and quite regularly finds coins and rings in the water pump /filter of the unit
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Re: Rag, Fairy, wishing, kissing, coin Tree

Post by Saki » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:10 pm

Twit wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:22 am
This is a lovely theme where the feelings and impressions are very personal, mirroring in some way how anyone approaches other finds. So I can only say for myself and without judgement :

The items I find usually have a feeling to them (to me). Some feel like they have been lost and are happy to be refound, others feel abandoned but remembered, others feel still wanted, and so on.

So anything left on purpose in devotion I feel not to interfere with.


I am sure most of you are aware of how early rituals and celebrations were merged into or with the Christian faith.
Great read TWIT.
Love the idea of items are happy to be found etc...

And fully agree that anything left for the purpose of devotion should not be touched.

Also the early rituals/Celebrations/Dates have merged or been hijacked from Pagan to Christian
Hundred of examples of this. And the Wishing trees I know of have even got Holy medals or holy pictures on them.

Deffo up for visiting Ermita de la Virgen de la Peña

Twit, If you find a that wishing tree near you, I would dearly like to see it.

Also, Purely out of interest, Anyone out there in MDF land, If you do see a wishing tree, could you post up a pic and position?
Steve_T wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:30 am
What an interesting post, just caught up with all the responses since first posted, made me think and made me chuckle

Great responses, one that could of gone off kilter but remained on point

Regards Steve
Any near you Steve_T? Did you ever see one?
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Re: Rag, Fairy, wishing, kissing, coin Tree

Post by Steve_T » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:18 pm

None near me that I know of, but will keep an eye open for the trees

But I know where the wishing wells are in the forests ;) ;) :D

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Re: Rag, Fairy, wishing, kissing, coin Tree

Post by Rhumours » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:10 pm

Hi

The trees you refer to are called clootie trees or cloities. ...

They are a place if significance to many people particularly pagans or neopagans.

The ribbon or thread or item whatever it may be is usually a wish. The tree is the conduit. The location usually significant. A holy well or spring.

In ages past water spilling from the earth (spring), was considered a gift from the great mother (earth/moon etc), and as such was considered to have healing properties. It was also considered to be a connecting point between us and creation. So a tree or bush would. Be chosen. Usually hawthorn and cloities tied into its branches. This offerING of something valuable would be left in return for a favour. A wish to be granted or illness taken. As the cloth rots it releases the wish into the world. Or as it rots it takes the illness away.

It was later classified as sympathetic magic.

However .... around d a couple of thousand years ago along came the Christian church. And in an effort to purloin followers it built churches on these holy locations and Holy wells also.

People like to copy what they see so in time many people add ribbon ...among other things. If you wish to have a go ... as you knot the cloth .... focus on your intent and tie the knot. Try not to restrict the tree if you can.

Interestingly people often leave coins in offering to these same figures of nature. However in times gone by coins were hammered in to rocks at these sites by the same Christians who refused to tolerate the pagan traditions. The coins were a gift of worth and made shiny .... shiny to reflect the evil away from that area. Often containing an image of the monarch of the day who was the embodiment of God on earth and the head of the church. So if they could be called upon to drive away pagans it would surly work.

You can also (although I forget the exact orientation), assessment a church site for its pagan origins by finding a Yew tree near the altar end of the church. There Yew was sacred to pagan religions so the altar was placed next to it when a church was built. The Christian faith allied with the pagan gods to begin with so they shared places of power. A rule of thumb used to be .... a large ancient yew tree near the altar .... was a good bet it was a pagan site.

Cloities - https://tinyurl.com/y9bgcyw6

Edit: I should also add a word of warning regarding metal detecting at these sites. Although you may be lucky enough to get permission to detect round one of them I'll share my experience. A rather well known one had all its ribbons removed and the bush they were tied to cut down to preserve the surrounding rock. I don't know how many death threats he got but he did make it onto the news and had to grovel significantly. And it certainly lost something around there.
Last edited by Rhumours on Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rag, Fairy, wishing, kissing, coin Tree

Post by sweepstick47 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:20 pm

A very interesting thread with great posts in reply ::g
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Re: Rag, Fairy, wishing, kissing, coin Tree

Post by brianc » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:21 pm

I used to have a caravan in Anglesey (Beaumaris) and spent many weekends over a few spring to autumn seasons walking the ancient paths.

I remember coming across a tree festooned with fragments of cloth and I must say that the aura in the vicinity was very distinctive.

The tree was not exactly on the path that we were walking along but there was a sign of a trail just off the beaten track that led to it. Also, the location was not what you would term as being convenient, in that it was a good fair old walk from any road.

As I recall, the primary instinct was to retreat and leave everything as it was - but not in an alarming way. It was more as what a passing observer might do upon glimpsing at a diary page that someone had left open and unattended.

So, this thread has raised a memory and I find it very interesting to hear the background and views on this.
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Re: Rag, Fairy, wishing, kissing, coin Tree

Post by Bargeman » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:38 pm

I had never heard of this and find it intriguing, I am fascinated by stone circles, barrows, and henges, and look them up whenever I am near, it would be nice to have a list of these prayer trees.

Thanks all for posting ::g



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Re: Rag, Fairy, wishing, kissing, coin Tree

Post by Rhumours » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:04 pm

Regarding the trees they can often be found by holy wells ... this site which I've no doubt has been often mentioned here can be used to map them.


http://m.megalithic.co.uk/index.php

And for those who have been running into SSSI sites can also map them on this site. You need to choose the various layers after loading it ... once used to it it is a very useful resource

http://magic.defra.gov.uk/MagicMap.aspx ... Scale=5000
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