Roman Pot hoard or random coin loss?

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Jungle
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Roman Pot hoard or random coin loss?

Post by Jungle » Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:24 pm

I found 30 roman copper alloy coins with the Deus and 11" in a fairly small area and these are with FLO. I went back to the site with the 13" coin and found another 10, maximum depth 25cm. In one of the holes I started to find pot shards. Then a pot rim. I stopped recovering. Most of the signals were now whispers. I could not find any large, deep signals. There is no known roman habitation and I've only found one brooch and 3 roman coins in the very large field. Certainly plenty of evidence of romans passing through other fields on the way to a known roman site a few miles away. Waiting on FLO to see if the pot age matches some of the coins.

The coins are all poor condition, at least half are early. Do I allow myself to think that these finds are the scattered part of a damaged pot hoard or would it be obvious that a mass of coins if it exists, would give a signal that I should be able to detect, assuming deepest plough would have hit the top of it?


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Re: Roman Pot hoard or random coin loss?

Post by jcmaloney » Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:27 pm

Could still be a deeper pot. They don`t just fill up with coins but also things like mud etc. So if the pot was buried and filled "in situ" then gradually filled over time any pause/re-burial etc can cause a "gap" or additional layer which is why its important to get somebody in to have a proper look. ::g

If the plough has hit the top there could easily be an undisturbed context below....and that needs professionals.

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Re: Roman Pot hoard or random coin loss?

Post by Fisher1266X » Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:32 pm

How small is the "small" area?
Is there any sign of pottery on the surface?
Are the coins a mix of sizes?
What is your estimated time span between the "early" coins and the latest ones?

The deepest plough depth I know of on our permissions is 12 inches but I know others go to 18 inches.
I've found a Roman shield boss at 18 inches on pasture so your machine should be able to detect a larger object such as a mass of copper alloy at 18 inches.
Quite a lot of hoards have been located after being hit with the plough and this would present a scatter of coins over quite a wide area. This could be as large as 100 sq ft or more!

Interesting to see if the FLO can pin down the pot dates ::g

Best
Paul
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Re: Roman Pot hoard or random coin loss?

Post by Mega B » Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:49 pm

I certainly would not be in a hurry too leave that location for sure,its ticking all the boxes that something is in that small area.nearly 40 coins and bits of pottery it does not get much better than that.

Very pleased for you ::g

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Re: Roman Pot hoard or random coin loss?

Post by littleboot » Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:51 pm

I found a hoard of Roman bronzes....never found any pot but the land was very scrubby with brambles etc and difficult to detect. All the coins were within a decade or so of each other (Marcus Aurelius/Commodus/Faustina ii/ Crispina) so I suspect it could of been a hoard...OR...someone opened a roadside shop or tavern around that time. lol
Go back after a nice prolonged wet spell and see if any signals firm up....and widen the search area.
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Re: Roman Pot hoard or random coin loss?

Post by Jungle » Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:01 pm

Fisher1266X wrote:How small is the "small" area?
Is there any sign of pottery on the surface?
Are the coins a mix of sizes?
What is your estimated time span between the "early" coins and the latest ones?

The deepest plough depth I know of on our permissions is 12 inches but I know others go to 18 inches.
I've found a Roman shield boss at 18 inches on pasture so your machine should be able to detect a larger object such as a mass of copper alloy at 18 inches.
Quite a lot of hoards have been located after being hit with the plough and this would present a scatter of coins over quite a wide area. This could be as large as 100 sq ft or more!

Interesting to see if the FLO can pin down the pot dates ::g

Best
Paul
10m x 5m with a hotspots 3m x 3m.
No pottery on top,only at bottom of hole.
Its a 50/50 split on large and smaller
The bigger ones may be sestertius/dupondios, smaller semis or a4 size.
Thanks Paul
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Re: Roman Pot hoard or random coin loss?

Post by Fisher1266X » Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:45 am

Jungle wrote: 10m x 5m with a hotspots 3m x 3m.
No pottery on top,only at bottom of hole.
Its a 50/50 split on large and smaller
The bigger ones may be sestertius/dupondios, smaller semis or a4 size.
Thanks Paul
There's a strong possibility that this could be a hoard due to the very small area in which the coinage was recovered and the lack of surface pottery.
There's a possibility that it it may be small in size and that all the contents are now dispersed over that area? Indeed, the other possibility is that there may be more a lot deeper?

We are in a similar position with the denarii hoard we found recently, however, there is pottery all over the 15 acre field but there is a concentration in a certain area. What is surprising is that there are several base sherds coming up! This particular hoard may have been buried in a small pot and that there may be several more small hoards in the field?
Several fragments of Samian Ware have also been recovered in the "concentration" area!
Some hoards were buried in other receptacles such as leather pouches or wooden boxes.
We're hoping that the archaeologists will excavate the hoard spot as well as other areas that look interesting. We'll let you know after the 17th November :D

Look forward to how your FLO progresses this one ;)

Best
Paul
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Re: Roman Pot hoard or random coin loss?

Post by JBM » Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:28 pm

Could be a Purse or pocket loss. ;) Jerry.

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Re: Roman Pot hoard or random coin loss?

Post by f8met » Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:02 pm

I have a field which I have GPS plotted all the coins and I have a spread over an area 100m diameter with coins over a 100 year time span and this is considered normal scatter, a building or a possible shrine site. If it is a smaller area then it is possible that they are a hoard.
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Re: Roman Pot hoard or random coin loss?

Post by Jungle » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:01 pm

Fisher1266X wrote:
Jungle wrote: 10m x 5m with a hotspots 3m x 3m.
No pottery on top,only at bottom of hole.
Its a 50/50 split on large and smaller
The bigger ones may be sestertius/dupondios, smaller semis or a4 size.
Thanks Paul
There's a strong possibility that this could be a hoard due to the very small area in which the coinage was recovered and the lack of surface pottery.
There's a possibility that it it may be small in size and that all the contents are now dispersed over that area? Indeed, the other possibility is that there may be more a lot deeper?

We are in a similar position with the denarii hoard we found recently, however, there is pottery all over the 15 acre field but there is a concentration in a certain area. What is surprising is that there are several base sherds coming up! This particular hoard may have been buried in a small pot and that there may be several more small hoards in the field?
Several fragments of Samian Ware have also been recovered in the "concentration" area!
Some hoards were buried in other receptacles such as leather pouches or wooden boxes.
We're hoping that the archaeologists will excavate the hoard spot as well as other areas that look interesting. We'll let you know after the 17th November :D

Look forward to how your FLO progresses this one ;)

Best
Paul
The County Archaeologist has given the go ahead to proceed with removal of historical plough zone and further down to natural to see if there is a cut anywhere. If there is then to give them a call. He has also suggested I involve the local amateur archaeology club. Just waiting on HLS people to confirm that they are happy.
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Re: Roman Pot hoard or random coin loss?

Post by newseeker » Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:01 pm

It could also be the remains of a previously discovered hoard, maybe by a Victorian ploughman. I should imagine a lot of hoards were discovered during this period
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Re: Roman Pot hoard or random coin loss?

Post by Jungle » Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:13 pm

Revisited with 11" after field worked and another 25 coins and two different sized pot rims. Will have another go with 13" after its been drilled and rolled. Still no deep, large targets but a good result from plough zone.
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Re: Roman Pot hoard or random coin loss?

Post by Easylife » Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:25 pm

Great news. ::g
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Re: Roman Pot hoard or random coin loss?

Post by f8met » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:13 pm

Would it be worth getting a PI machine on the site?
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Re: Roman Pot hoard or random coin loss?

Post by Jungle » Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:09 pm

f8met wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:13 pm
Would it be worth getting a PI machine on the site?
Could be, I will work out size of pots from the rims and compare with other hoards to see what sort of size mass could be lurking 12" (?) below. Also need to see if any of the pottery is from the base, which would less of a good sign.

Either way after hammering with everything, several times, just goes to show how a good working over can bring more within range.
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Re: Roman Pot hoard or random coin loss?

Post by Jungle » Wed May 16, 2018 7:55 pm

Its now with BM for interpretation.
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Re: Roman Pot hoard or random coin loss?

Post by fred » Wed May 16, 2018 9:08 pm

I'm in a similar situation. I'm too bloody old to be digging trenches though! :D

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Re: Roman Pot hoard or random coin loss?

Post by king of the swingers » Thu May 17, 2018 7:41 am

Fisher1266X wrote:
Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:32 pm
How small is the "small" area?
Is there any sign of pottery on the surface?
Are the coins a mix of sizes?
What is your estimated time span between the "early" coins and the latest ones?

The deepest plough depth I know of on our permissions is 12 inches but I know others go to 18 inches.
I've found a Roman shield boss at 18 inches on pasture so your machine should be able to detect a larger object such as a mass of copper alloy at 18 inches.
Quite a lot of hoards have been located after being hit with the plough and this would present a scatter of coins over quite a wide area. This could be as large as 100 sq ft or more!

Interesting to see if the FLO can pin down the pot dates ::g

Best
Paul
any chance of a picture of the shield boss

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Re: Roman Pot hoard or random coin loss?

Post by cammann » Thu May 17, 2018 9:26 am

f8met wrote:
Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:02 pm
I have a field which I have GPS plotted all the coins and I have a spread over an area 100m diameter with coins over a 100 year time span and this is considered normal scatter, a building or a possible shrine site. If it is a smaller area then it is possible that they are a hoard.
Good to know. I've had 12 low denomination Roman grots out of a similar sized area and thought it was a hoard but a more experienced detectorist than me said he thought this was a normal scatter. Sounds like he is probably right.
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