Help with a bottle age (maybe an id too?)

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iainmcdonald
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Help with a bottle age (maybe an id too?)

Post by iainmcdonald » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:55 pm

I found this along with some scrap iron and a few pieces of pottery today. Have googled the life out of it but cannot find anything that relates to the markings A&S. The bottle is not perfectly round and where it is smashed, it has significantly different thicknesses all the way around. I would love even a rough date for it if anyone has an idea? to give an indication of how old the pottery might be too if it is a mini dump. Better yet, some info on the A&S would be great. Thanks in advance!

Sorry for it being links, can't for the life of me get the pictures down to the right size to post straight to here...

https://ibb.co/nAjSnm
https://ibb.co/heZGf6

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Lowland
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Re: Help with a bottle age (maybe an id too?)

Post by Lowland » Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:59 am

Could be an old dump ...tidy!
If you’d found the lip of the bottle we would be laughing.

I’ve not seen that base before,..
It’s quite shallow with no kick up
like champagne bottles and the like have.
No Pontil mark
But a bit crude and uneven thickness

Bears a passing resemblance to a Ricketts patent base?(early 1800s)
But not.
I don’t think it’s that old but certainly victorian

Can’t find anything on the A&S basemark.
Graces guide still to try.
Will most likely be the glassworks mark
Would like to see the pottery pieces you found.. ::g
And find the lip!!
lang may yer lum reek wi sumboady elses coal

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Re: Help with a bottle age (maybe an id too?)

Post by Koala » Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:15 am

Arny & Shinn ?


Quite like the unevenness of old bottles. I found a 1950s bottle recently that had an uneven base slightly banana shape. Still did the job. Nowadays it would have been melted down again..



Vast majority of Victorian are beer, water and medicine.

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Re: Help with a bottle age (maybe an id too?)

Post by fred » Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:48 am

It looks like a late Victorian/early 20thC beer bottle base to me. ::g

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Re: Help with a bottle age (maybe an id too?)

Post by iainmcdonald » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:16 am

Lowland wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:59 am
Could be an old dump ...tidy!
If you’d found the lip of the bottle we would be laughing.

I’ve not seen that base before,..
It’s quite shallow with no kick up
like champagne bottles and the like have.
No Pontil mark
But a bit crude and uneven thickness

Bears a passing resemblance to a Ricketts patent base?(early 1800s)
But not.
I don’t think it’s that old but certainly victorian

Can’t find anything on the A&S basemark.
Graces guide still to try.
Will most likely be the glassworks mark
Would like to see the pottery pieces you found.. ::g
And find the lip!!
here are some photos. some of the pictures are of the same item from the reverse. I picked up a couple of varying pieces for this exact reason! :D There were also some extremely thick red roof tiles, an oyster shell and a couple of lamb (I think) bones in the 2ft x 2ft hole, and the remains of a cauldron with the hanging arm still attached.

https://ibb.co/c6zYA6
https://ibb.co/f3cmV6

https://ibb.co/msJFOR
https://ibb.co/jo9Bxm

https://ibb.co/mUiRV6
https://ibb.co/c74N3R

https://ibb.co/g8tRV6
https://ibb.co/jOGfq6
https://ibb.co/fagrxm

https://ibb.co/hU9uHm

https://ibb.co/j7DAq6

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Lowland
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Re: Help with a bottle age (maybe an id too?)

Post by Lowland » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:33 am

All that in a 2 ft by 2 ft hole...encouraging.
Best thing I can say to you is dig the b*****r and see where the cards fall!
Certainly all looks victorian from here.
Nice one...
Is it near a big house...the Pottery looks like nice stuff?
Look forward to seeing the results.
If it’s only little it can be interesting and worthwhile to record everything,certainly paints a picture of the time..
Cheers for putting the pictures up.
::g
lang may yer lum reek wi sumboady elses coal

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Re: Help with a bottle age (maybe an id too?)

Post by Lowland » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:44 am

Also ... the original bottle bit you posted..can you see any evidence of seam lines running up the sides..
Or tiny faint horizontal lines running around the body?
Evidence of either would help with pinning down type of manufacture..
Cheers
lang may yer lum reek wi sumboady elses coal

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Re: Help with a bottle age (maybe an id too?)

Post by jeap » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:46 am

I read that A & S as M & S - too many Christmas adverts already

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Re: Help with a bottle age (maybe an id too?)

Post by iainmcdonald » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:57 am

No, thank you for the help!

Here are a few more photos showing some air bubbles in the glass, some striations running vertically (probably don't show up well on photo) and what looks and feels like iron oxidation (no idea if it is transferred or from the bottle itself?)

https://ibb.co/dwYziR
https://ibb.co/n19uHm
https://ibb.co/nvCQOR

There is no seam that is visible at all. Now I have washed it a little, the surface is absolutely covered in small pits and imperfections, it is not at all smooth.

It was against a hedge line in a field about 75 yards from a building which shows on the side by side old maps from NLS as a manor house in the late 1880's. The first thing I saw when I dug down was the rim of a cauldron so my heart started to beat a little faster with dreams of gold and a life of leasure!

It was starting to get dark so I back filled it with the intention of heading back later. When I make it out I will take some more pictures and try to build up a better idea. I did not find a 'bottom' so with any luck it will go down a fair bit!

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Re: Help with a bottle age (maybe an id too?)

Post by Lowland » Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:18 am

Those pictures help a bit...
I would say it’s been blown into a mould,I think this sort of manufacture ran right up through victorian times
The sickness on your glass bottle bit-can be an indicator of glass that’s been in the ground a good while.
Could be an ale/beer bottle but don’t think so
With the flattish base minus a kick up ,it’s not champagne or wine either.
Could be a liqueur type of thing or maybe one of the numerous health tonics...which were usually alcohol dressed up with some other ingredients.
Made you feel better for a bit and kept the temperance crew at bay.

I can be down for after tea time!!
I wish.
Good luck :D ::g
Last edited by Lowland on Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
lang may yer lum reek wi sumboady elses coal

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Re: Help with a bottle age (maybe an id too?)

Post by iainmcdonald » Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:22 am

Thanks, quite looking forward to it!

and thank you all for taking the time to look

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Re: Help with a bottle age (maybe an id too?)

Post by Lowland » Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:30 am

Just to whet the appetite.... country house dumps can have the good stuff in...more money equals better consumables.
Good pot lids a strong possibility.
Go get em !
::g
lang may yer lum reek wi sumboady elses coal

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