Circular crop mark?

Post your topics related to useful resources and research.
User avatar
Easylife
Posts: 1562
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:23 pm
Has thanked: 206 times
Been thanked: 777 times

Circular crop mark?

Post by Easylife » Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:16 pm

I noticed this circular crop mark straddling a hedge boundary between fields and wondered what it most likely was. It is about 25 metres diameter and appears to have an inner ring of about 20 metres although only the left half is visible in image. There appears to be a path or track to it from the south west. It is located towards the top of a ridge and furrow ploughed hill with a brook less than 200 metres away. It does not show at all on Lidar. Any ideas?

Image

Image

Image


Deus V4.1, 11" coil, 9" HF coil, 2nd Garrett Carrot. %)=
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

Dave The Slave
Posts: 871
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:53 pm
Has thanked: 1101 times
Been thanked: 249 times

Re: Circular crop mark?

Post by Dave The Slave » Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:46 pm

Can clearly see the right hand side of circle in top photo, although it does not stand out as prominently. The right hand side also has an inner circle of approx half diameter showing. Second photo has a possible entrance on the right hand side, showing at between 2 & 3 o`clock
Might be worth checking on a Geo ref map or old map to see how long that field boundary has been there. Have also had parch marks show up that aren`t on Lidar.
If field boundary is old, could be interesting.
Good Luck with your research ::g ,
Dave.
Bounty Hunter Tracker IV
Garrett 400 I

User avatar
Easylife
Posts: 1562
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:23 pm
Has thanked: 206 times
Been thanked: 777 times

Re: Circular crop mark?

Post by Easylife » Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:37 pm

Boundary is shown on 1883 map.
Deus V4.1, 11" coil, 9" HF coil, 2nd Garrett Carrot. %)=
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

User avatar
littleboot
Posts: 1395
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:22 pm
Location: Normandy (the cider and cheese area)
Has thanked: 126 times
Been thanked: 200 times

Re: Circular crop mark?

Post by littleboot » Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:16 pm

Interesting....especially given the size and the fact a boundary goes through it. So that rules out those feeding cages for cows being in position there.

As Dave says...check other maps. Also other satellite images from google history and other mapping sites ( Bing Maps) because they are taken at other times of year with different ground conditions so will eliminate random markings that are purely temporary. If it shows up on more than one then you are probably onto something.
GMP, Tesoro Invincible, wellies.

User avatar
Easylife
Posts: 1562
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:23 pm
Has thanked: 206 times
Been thanked: 777 times

Re: Circular crop mark?

Post by Easylife » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:16 pm

Further GE historic maps revealed two more paths leading to this, one leads to what look like possibly 6 or so clustered smaller circular crop marks. It is on a part of my new permission where I have not been yet, guess where my first search will be next time? :D
Deus V4.1, 11" coil, 9" HF coil, 2nd Garrett Carrot. %)=
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

User avatar
oldartefact
Posts: 6687
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:31 am
Location: Gods own county - numero uno!
Has thanked: 821 times
Been thanked: 653 times

Re: Circular crop mark?

Post by oldartefact » Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:58 pm

The key to understanding what is happening here is in the second pic ... there is an as yet unexplained mark leading from left to the edge of the "circle" ... understand that and you will be well on your way to explaining the topology.
Imagine there is no heaven, only sky above us.

User avatar
littleboot
Posts: 1395
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:22 pm
Location: Normandy (the cider and cheese area)
Has thanked: 126 times
Been thanked: 200 times

Re: Circular crop mark?

Post by littleboot » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:42 pm

Another possible explanation is that it is a filled-in Dew Pond. Depends on the location, but I remember there were quite a lot of them in the Peak District and other areas of limestone or chalk.
Originally they were lined with clay (and then in more recent times some of them were lined with concrete) and obviously used for watering animals. Quite a few were dissected by boundary fences when the open fields were enclosed in the 18th century. This being so that both fields had access to the water.
The path could well be an old path worn by stock as they went to drink.
Dew ponds are fascinating and mysterious and many of them are thought to have ancient origins.
GMP, Tesoro Invincible, wellies.

Koala
Posts: 3605
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:47 pm
Location: Cheshire
Has thanked: 172 times
Been thanked: 738 times

Re: Circular crop mark?

Post by Koala » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:27 pm

I must have funny eyes to everybody else

I see. I both photos left hand side. A curved shape like the left hand side of a 6


Right hand side. Top photo. Top right I see a mass of lines (looks interesting) some straight some curved. There does appear as if a small section might be on the same curve but if you cover it with your thumb I can't see anything either side.


Right hand side. Second photo. To the right I see the corner of a square.


The brain is very good at filling in the gaps with is own details.


Whatever crop marks are crop marks. Get permission and get swinging.


Good luck and happy hunting.

User avatar
Steve_T
Posts: 1381
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:54 pm
Location: Wiltshire
Has thanked: 347 times
Been thanked: 644 times

Re: Circular crop mark?

Post by Steve_T » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:41 pm

Could it be a"fairy ring" I have seen these in the past on grassland? It may explain the circle if it's dead or well pronounced grass. Just something to consider perhaps, hope it does turn out to be something, eye on the ground on site will tell more.

Going by the shadow of the hedge I don't think it's depicting a hump or hollow in the ground, looks level to me, a lidar image may help

Have a look at this link to the Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairy_ring

Regards Steve
_________________________________________________________________
Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.
Albert Einstein

User avatar
Easylife
Posts: 1562
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:23 pm
Has thanked: 206 times
Been thanked: 777 times

Re: Circular crop mark?

Post by Easylife » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:10 pm

Visited site today, the ring is actually a darker green grass so maybe getting more water or nutrients than the rest. Fairy circle or filled in ring ditch maybe? The pasture is too dry to detect responsibly at present until we have more rain so as not to kill the grass. Just half of the large circle up to the hedgerow shown in these pics, should be self evident. All thoughts welcome.

Image

Image

Image
Deus V4.1, 11" coil, 9" HF coil, 2nd Garrett Carrot. %)=
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

Dave The Slave
Posts: 871
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:53 pm
Has thanked: 1101 times
Been thanked: 249 times

Re: Circular crop mark?

Post by Dave The Slave » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:29 pm

Looks clearer in real life. To me looks like a ditch because land inside ring appears to be higher suddenly rather than gradually. Did you think the same when you were there ?
Cheers ::g
Dave
Bounty Hunter Tracker IV
Garrett 400 I

User avatar
Easylife
Posts: 1562
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:23 pm
Has thanked: 206 times
Been thanked: 777 times

Re: Circular crop mark?

Post by Easylife » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:41 pm

Dave The Slave wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:29 pm
Looks clearer in real life. To me looks like a ditch because land inside ring appears to be higher suddenly rather than gradually. Did you think the same when you were there ?
It seemed to be about the same level but it was all ridge and furrow ploughed long ago so there is some unevenness. There is about a 2 foot drop on the outer edge of the circle at the tree line in the last pic as it goes down the hill. There did appear to be a gap about where that south west path joins it (2nd original pic), but that path was not visible today, so could be coincidental.
Deus V4.1, 11" coil, 9" HF coil, 2nd Garrett Carrot. %)=
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

Koala
Posts: 3605
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:47 pm
Location: Cheshire
Has thanked: 172 times
Been thanked: 738 times

Re: Circular crop mark?

Post by Koala » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:02 pm

Strange looks like I should show up on Lidar

User avatar
oldartefact
Posts: 6687
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:31 am
Location: Gods own county - numero uno!
Has thanked: 821 times
Been thanked: 653 times

Re: Circular crop mark?

Post by oldartefact » Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:04 pm

Easylife wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:41 pm
Dave The Slave wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:29 pm
Looks clearer in real life. To me looks like a ditch because land inside ring appears to be higher suddenly rather than gradually. Did you think the same when you were there ?
It seemed to be about the same level but it was all ridge and furrow ploughed long ago so there is some unevenness. There is about a 2 foot drop on the outer edge of the circle at the tree line in the last pic as it goes down the hill. There did appear to be a gap about where that south west path joins it (2nd original pic), but that path was not visible today, so could be coincidental.
Did you manage to figure out what the path leading up to the edge of the circle was all about? and did you get to ask the farmer about it?
Imagine there is no heaven, only sky above us.

User avatar
Easylife
Posts: 1562
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:23 pm
Has thanked: 206 times
Been thanked: 777 times

Re: Circular crop mark?

Post by Easylife » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:52 pm

Koala wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:02 pm
Strange looks like I should show up on Lidar
Only ridge & furrows show clearly on Lidar.
Deus V4.1, 11" coil, 9" HF coil, 2nd Garrett Carrot. %)=
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

User avatar
Easylife
Posts: 1562
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:23 pm
Has thanked: 206 times
Been thanked: 777 times

Re: Circular crop mark?

Post by Easylife » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:40 pm

oldartefact wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:04 pm
Did you manage to figure out what the path leading up to the edge of the circle was all about? and did you get to ask the farmer about it?
I think that the whole picture is slowly becoming clearer. The diagonal lines appear to align with what I assume is an older field system to the south, parallel to the main road which are at 45 degrees to the northern fields, so those diagonals might be older field boundaries. The northern fields orientations now slope down to a main brook and were ridge and furrow ploughed which continues through present northern field boundaries. Hope that makes sense. I have not met the farmer yet, only spoken initially on the phone. I will see what history of the land he has soon.
These overlays are made from aerial images from different years. The electrical powerlines NW to SE are not a factor.

Image

Large circle outer 25 metres, inner 20 metres diameter. An oddly oriented rectangle.
Image

About 150 metres along the south line at the apex of the flat topped hill. Note how the boundary has changed orientation.
Image

Circles approx 5 metres diameter, there are a few more visible in pic.
Image

May turn out to be just fairy circles but they do seem to be connected directly.
Last edited by Easylife on Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Deus V4.1, 11" coil, 9" HF coil, 2nd Garrett Carrot. %)=
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

User avatar
Easylife
Posts: 1562
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:23 pm
Has thanked: 206 times
Been thanked: 777 times

Re: Circular crop mark?

Post by Easylife » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:44 pm

I did wonder if it was a now a ploughed out round barrow which was once used as the previous field boundary junction.
Last edited by Easylife on Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
Deus V4.1, 11" coil, 9" HF coil, 2nd Garrett Carrot. %)=
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

User avatar
oldartefact
Posts: 6687
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:31 am
Location: Gods own county - numero uno!
Has thanked: 821 times
Been thanked: 653 times

Re: Circular crop mark?

Post by oldartefact » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:51 pm

Just noticed that in the top pic there is a shadow visible on the trees where the circle bisects the hedge ...??? that is weird...
Imagine there is no heaven, only sky above us.

User avatar
Easylife
Posts: 1562
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:23 pm
Has thanked: 206 times
Been thanked: 777 times

Re: Circular crop mark?

Post by Easylife » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:50 am

oldartefact wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:51 pm
Just noticed that in the top pic there is a shadow visible on the trees where the circle bisects the hedge ...??? that is weird...
The circle shadow alignment crossing the hedge does seem strange. On site visit today I should have really paid more attention to it. I did notice a couple of small gaps in the otherwise consistent hawthorn hedgerow which may quite possibly have aligned with "shadows". If so then then the hedge chose not to grow there which is quite the opposite of expected, and agreed that would be really weird. The pasture is really too dry to dig at present, which was the agreement with farmer only when suitable, it is located exactly half way up the hill with a layer of seemingly chalky sub soil. This phenomenon is quite intriguing, may take dog for walk there for further exploration in the mean time. I find it all quite interesting, it is surprising what starts out as a simple hobby then escalates with finds research into a learning curve in history, geography as well as lots of puzzle solving.
Last edited by Easylife on Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Deus V4.1, 11" coil, 9" HF coil, 2nd Garrett Carrot. %)=
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

User avatar
Oxgirl36
Moderator
Posts: 3871
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:54 pm
Location: Oxfordshire
Has thanked: 1709 times
Been thanked: 1478 times

Re: Circular crop mark?

Post by Oxgirl36 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:32 am

Easylife wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:44 pm
I did wonder if it was a now a ploughed out round barrow which was once used as the previous field boundary junction.
That is what I would have said too. Saw a similar one once on Time Team that was a Bronze Age barrow that had appeared to have remained an important place through Roman times and beyond. However, like others, I would expect it to show up on Lidar. Is it on high ground?
XP Deus
9 silver hammered coins (1 in 2016; 7 in 2017) - and, at last, 1 in 2018 :D

User avatar
Easylife
Posts: 1562
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:23 pm
Has thanked: 206 times
Been thanked: 777 times

Re: Circular crop mark?

Post by Easylife » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:12 am

Oxgirl36 wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:32 am
Easylife wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:44 pm
I did wonder if it was a now a ploughed out round barrow which was once used as the previous field boundary junction.
That is what I would have said too. Saw a similar one once on Time Team that was a Bronze Age barrow that had appeared to have remained an important place through Roman times and beyond. However, like others, I would expect it to show up on Lidar. Is it on high ground?
It is about exactly midway up on the quite shallow side of a hill which is really quite steep on the other side being maybe a good 45 degree that you would not care to walk up it at all. I would have thought that the location of this and the smaller 5 metre circular markings atop the hill are maybe too coincidental to all be fairy circles, though possible, time will tell hopefully. If it was a barrow of approx 20 metres then yes, you would think that it would still show on Lidar even after much ploughing, but it does not. Unusually for a largish farm, well only 280 acres of land, a location of which I can find no history at all on my usual sources, probably same as yours. I think it is time to actually meet the farmer, have a friendly chat and see what he historically knows about his land. ::g
Deus V4.1, 11" coil, 9" HF coil, 2nd Garrett Carrot. %)=
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

User avatar
Oxgirl36
Moderator
Posts: 3871
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:54 pm
Location: Oxfordshire
Has thanked: 1709 times
Been thanked: 1478 times

Re: Circular crop mark?

Post by Oxgirl36 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:19 am

Interesting. Please keep us updated with what you find out.
XP Deus
9 silver hammered coins (1 in 2016; 7 in 2017) - and, at last, 1 in 2018 :D

User avatar
Steve_T
Posts: 1381
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:54 pm
Location: Wiltshire
Has thanked: 347 times
Been thanked: 644 times

Re: Circular crop mark?

Post by Steve_T » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:09 pm

Seeing pictures of the ground I think fairy ring can be discounted, wonder why it didn't show on lidar
Eyes on the ground have shown worth investigating, interesting feature
Keep us updated

Regards Steve
_________________________________________________________________
Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.
Albert Einstein

User avatar
amphora
Posts: 588
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:33 pm
Has thanked: 125 times
Been thanked: 94 times

Re: Circular crop mark?

Post by amphora » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:56 pm

Easylife wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:12 am
I think it is time to actually meet the farmer, have a friendly chat and see what he historically knows about his land. ::g
I think that time was about 10 posts before there. When you took the pictures, i would already been hunting it.
These are the spots you must try. No matter if the give or not.

Hunt without discrimination (yes, only disc small nails but nothing more).
And keep your eyes wide open for signals while hunting. ;)
Good luck hunting.

User avatar
Easylife
Posts: 1562
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:23 pm
Has thanked: 206 times
Been thanked: 777 times

Re: Circular crop mark?

Post by Easylife » Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:21 am

amphora wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:56 pm
Easylife wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:12 am
I think it is time to actually meet the farmer, have a friendly chat and see what he historically knows about his land. ::g
I think that time was about 10 posts before there. When you took the pictures, i would already been hunting it.
These are the spots you must try. No matter if the give or not.
It is a very recent permission I have, ground was so dry then that grass would die for sure and that was the farmers main concern. I respect that so do not want to chance losing the land as there is a lot of it showing good potential. It is my call to wait for rain then go for it, land will still be there. Farmer was on holiday when I discovered and first posted this, should be back now so will make some enquiries at weekend to see what history he knows.
Deus V4.1, 11" coil, 9" HF coil, 2nd Garrett Carrot. %)=
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

User avatar
amphora
Posts: 588
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:33 pm
Has thanked: 125 times
Been thanked: 94 times

Re: Circular crop mark?

Post by amphora » Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:24 pm

I was foolin around a bit. Overreacting on the "go there immediately".
With a bit truth in it. If you can't explane, just go.

Good luck with this spot. Hope to see some interesting from there soon. ::g
Good luck hunting.

User avatar
Easylife
Posts: 1562
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:23 pm
Has thanked: 206 times
Been thanked: 777 times

Re: Circular crop mark?

Post by Easylife » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:32 am

Now that ground has softened just a bit, I ventured back on for a couple of hours. On my way to investigate the large circular feature my first target was a complete ringing crotal bell, though small and undecorated, a most welcome find. I only managed three lines of searching within the large circular feature, working out from the hedge before being joined by about 30 inquisitive bullocks. So then moved on to what I have named "The coin field", due to about 75% of targets being coins, though being small at only about one acre, sure enough I found myself digging coins again though less often than previously, there cannot be too many left now.
In the circular feature, apart from the usual pasture finds, were the pictured finds - the loop is of a silver coloured metal and on the Deus reads about 70 so maybe not much copper content but looks horse related. The other three items are of copper alloy the smaller one being tooth shaped (like cow or horse) reading 86 and unusually appears to be calcified with a white appearance. One appears to be part of a bronze vessel,which reads 83. The one which I think most interesting is the bottom left, which appears to be the broken off rounded tip of something. It is copper alloy/bronze, reads 87 and of shallow triangular section with a slight curve to the inside which follows the length, I have no idea about it so any suggestions are welcome. If this circular feature was once a round barrow it is likely spread quite far, time will maybe tell. More rain is needed.

Image

Image
Deus V4.1, 11" coil, 9" HF coil, 2nd Garrett Carrot. %)=
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

User avatar
Steve_T
Posts: 1381
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:54 pm
Location: Wiltshire
Has thanked: 347 times
Been thanked: 644 times

Re: Circular crop mark?

Post by Steve_T » Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:58 am

The two on the left look like skillet legs or cauldron legs, the circular item does look like it may be horse harness related, all looks promising ::g

Regards Steve
_________________________________________________________________
Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.
Albert Einstein

User avatar
Easylife
Posts: 1562
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:23 pm
Has thanked: 206 times
Been thanked: 777 times

Re: Circular crop mark?

Post by Easylife » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:12 am

Steve_T wrote:
Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:58 am
The two on the left look like skillet legs or cauldron legs.

Regards Steve
Thanks Steve, They do, similar to others on PAS. A sign of possible habitation.
Deus V4.1, 11" coil, 9" HF coil, 2nd Garrett Carrot. %)=
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

cammann
Posts: 173
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2016 5:53 pm
Location: cambridge
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 37 times

Re: Circular crop mark?

Post by cammann » Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:07 pm

Perhaps this site which was provided by another might help - LIDAR has been v helpful on some of my permissions:
https://www.lidarfinder.com/
XP Deus
Garret Pro Pointer
Minelab Explorer SE Pro
Minelab Safari
Garret Ace 250
Best find - medieval gold posy ring, piece and quite

Post Reply

Return to “Research Section”