Am I going about this the wrong way??

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Bambamsdadda
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Am I going about this the wrong way??

Post by Bambamsdadda » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:27 am

Hi all, after a successful year with a Makro racer I decided to get a dues.
I originally had a 9” coil but was interested in getting the “full depth performance” from the larger 13”x11” coil. So now I have that on the go.
Now here’s where I think I’ve been going wrong.
The field I found my 1/4 stater on is absolutely riddled with iron, coke, small flints and large flints, it was ploughed and rolled last year.
Have I shot myself in the foot by moving away from the 9” to the larger coil?
I was watching a chap “coin shooting” in an American plot of land that was crammed with “trash” easily picking out signals with a 9” coil and another chap favouring a Deus with a 9” over his ctx 3030 with a large coil. Both said it will sift through the bad signals better with the smaller coil.
Should I keep the 13”x11” for cleaner areas and use the 9” for the “trashy” stoney areas?? But what about depth??


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Re: Am I going about this the wrong way??

Post by Twit » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:38 pm

I don't know that machine, but I suppose it is a question of how capable it is at disc. . Usually on contaminated sites small coils work better but slightly shallower... if you have a capable disc though you might be able to sift out all but acceptable signals... let's see if someone with your machine has a clearer answer.

:-/

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Re: Am I going about this the wrong way??

Post by bob79 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:16 pm

Think I would have gone for the HF elliptical coil over the 13", especially as you have found a quarter stater. This coil is designed to find small low conductivity targets as well as being able to get between the iron and coke, depth is not everything.

Bob ::g

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Re: Am I going about this the wrong way??

Post by Bambamsdadda » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:17 pm

Twit wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:38 pm
I don't know that machine, but I suppose it is a question of how capable it is at disc. . Usually on contaminated sites small coils work better but slightly shallower... if you have a capable disc though you might be able to sift out all but acceptable signals... let's see if someone with your machine has a clearer answer.

:-/

Well the Deus is renowned for its discrimination capabilities, cheers for the input.
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Re: Am I going about this the wrong way??

Post by Steve_T » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:20 pm

Personally I would have gone for 11 inch with a view to obtaining the 9 inch HF coil at a later date

This is my personal view, not one that would agree with all perhaps

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Re: Am I going about this the wrong way??

Post by Mega B » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:33 pm

9'' coil for trashy sites etc or infact i still reckon its the best all round coil for the Deus,the larger coil excels on 'clean' pastures sites,the discrimination on the Deus is good but on trashy sites when using a large coil you can get 2 targets under the coil at the same time ie iron and a nice gold stater but the decent target will get 'nulled' out because of the iron under the coil at the same time.

Large coils are mainly to be used on open clean pasture or deep ploughed,stock coils or even smaller than stock coils excels on really trashy sites.

For the most part i find that these days i prefer much smaller coils for most of my detecting but on clear pasture or i suspect a hoard then i will then bring the big fellas out to play but only on clear ground.
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Re: Am I going about this the wrong way??

Post by Koala » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:51 pm

When there was only 9, 11, and 13.

A few in the club had more than one coil.

Anyone that had more than one ended up using the 11 most of the time.

How that cmpaires to the HF I don't know.

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Re: Am I going about this the wrong way??

Post by Twit » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:56 pm

Mega B wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:33 pm
9'' coil for trashy sites etc or infact i still reckon its the best all round coil for the Deus,the larger coil excels on 'clean' pastures sites,the discrimination on the Deus is good but on trashy sites when using a large coil you can get 2 targets under the coil at the same time ie iron and a nice gold stater but the decent target will get 'nulled' out because of the iron under the coil at the same time.

Large coils are mainly to be used on open clean pasture or deep ploughed,stock coils or even smaller than stock coils excels on really trashy sites.

For the most part i find that these days i prefer much smaller coils for most of my detecting but on clear pasture or i suspect a hoard then i will then bring the big fellas out to play but only on clear ground.
Was wondering on nulling. One circumstance is a weak high signal being overwhelmed by the rest of the signals a larger coil picks up ( which I suppose you cannot avoid except by frequency or even sensitivity maybe) and therefore unnoticeable by the coil itself , but the other is the circuitry not picking out just the appropriate higher signal from the whole. I know on the G2 ( which I use) that if there is a high signal it will emphasize it or at least show it, even if there is background iron, if set up a certain way. Just thinking out loud...

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Re: Am I going about this the wrong way??

Post by Easylife » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:10 pm

As your field is riddled with iron you are unlikely to get any great depth on non-ferrous amongst that amount of iron. A larger coil will see more of the iron at once so a smaller coil will be better for target separation. The 9” LF coils are good for this though the 9” round HF coil could be better depending on targets and frequency. The elliptical HF coil is even better for target separation on very heavily iron contaminated sites though has less depth than the others but this may not matter on your site. The Hot program should be good on your site. The HF coils actually raise the target numbers so the higher tones are easier picked out amongst the iron.

I have the 11” coil and the 9” round HF coil, out of interest I did some air tests with both coils at all frequencies using targets of gold, silver and bronze in a range of sizes. Both coils gave comparable results and as expected the HF coil had the advantage on small gold items below ring size but the 11” coil in 8 khz gave the most impressive results on larger gold, all silver items and was about equal on the bronze coins. It may be different for targets actually in the ground and depending on conditions of course. ::g
Last edited by Easylife on Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Am I going about this the wrong way??

Post by laoisdeus » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:06 pm

Prob 9 hot...just like Gary on the xp tutorial videos, he mostly uses 11x13 and you cant go wrong

If you have the lite version just go by sound, if you have the remote the x-y screen should help identify coke, I find I concentrate more and have had more success if I set my machine in "leave the remote at home mode"

The pre set programs are terrific on lovely rolled fields in the UK, not many machines compare to the deus on that land

Best of luck and hopefully this horrible cold weather ends soon

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Re: Am I going about this the wrong way??

Post by Koala » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:42 pm

Twit wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:56 pm
Mega B wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:33 pm
9'' coil for trashy sites etc or infact i still reckon its the best all round coil for the Deus,the larger coil excels on 'clean' pastures sites,the discrimination on the Deus is good but on trashy sites when using a large coil you can get 2 targets under the coil at the same time ie iron and a nice gold stater but the decent target will get 'nulled' out because of the iron under the coil at the same time.

Large coils are mainly to be used on open clean pasture or deep ploughed,stock coils or even smaller than stock coils excels on really trashy sites.

For the most part i find that these days i prefer much smaller coils for most of my detecting but on clear pasture or i suspect a hoard then i will then bring the big fellas out to play but only on clear ground.
Was wondering on nulling. One circumstance is a weak high signal being overwhelmed by the rest of the signals a larger coil picks up ( which I suppose you cannot avoid except by frequency or even sensitivity maybe) and therefore unnoticeable by the coil itself , but the other is the circuitry not picking out just the appropriate higher signal from the whole. I know on the G2 ( which I use) that if there is a high signal it will emphasize it or at least show it, even if there is background iron, if set up a certain way. Just thinking out loud...
Yes

I have tried every machine that's gone through my hands and both DD and concentric. Nothing makes any difference. On something like a horseshoe next to a henry VII cut half penny the best you will ever get is half the coil diameter. Makes no difference whether you are using a vintage detector or a modern. There is no magic answer.

The more modern machines generaly discriminate better
Apart from tbe clever software algorithms the technology is the same.

I have used 5.5" 8" and 10" and it amazing how similar the find rates are. What you loose in depth you gain in seperation and the other way round.

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Re: Am I going about this the wrong way??

Post by Roberts » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:08 pm

A bigger coil gives better coverage and a little more depth in theory.

I use the 11inch coil but stay in the fast deus/goldmax 18khz programs when in polluted areas and do pretty good with it of course with these modes you lose a bit of depth.

The above two programs give better reactivity and seperation but at the expense of depth whereas a lower frequency will give depth but slower reactivity and work better in a less polluted ground.

Am sure with a bit of tweaking you might get a better depth and as others have posted garys hot program is quite good and brings in results, i personally use the deus(v4.0) with just head phones so its all about the sounds even faint which usually means depth.

Have you tried the pitch mode?, i find the sounds/seperation are easier to differentiate and you still get depth.

I have added a link to gary's site which specializes in XP deus and has a lot of good information.
Link below
XP deus school site
Last edited by Roberts on Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Am I going about this the wrong way??

Post by sweepstick47 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:29 pm

A good useful thread with well detailed content ::g ss47
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Re: Am I going about this the wrong way??

Post by oldartefact » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:42 pm

Bambamsdadda wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:27 am
Hi all, after a successful year with a Makro racer I decided to get a dues.
I originally had a 9” coil but was interested in getting the “full depth performance” from the larger 13”x11” coil. So now I have that on the go.
Now here’s where I think I’ve been going wrong.
The field I found my 1/4 stater on is absolutely riddled with iron, coke, small flints and large flints, it was ploughed and rolled last year.
Have I shot myself in the foot by moving away from the 9” to the larger coil?
I was watching a chap “coin shooting” in an American plot of land that was crammed with “trash” easily picking out signals with a 9” coil and another chap favouring a Deus with a 9” over his ctx 3030 with a large coil. Both said it will sift through the bad signals better with the smaller coil.
Should I keep the 13”x11” for cleaner areas and use the 9” for the “trashy” stoney areas?? But what about depth??
I often ask myself exactly the same question!! OooO OooO OooO
I just dont get the small coil thing ... its like some marketing guru came up with some ridiculous idea that small is better. I am an avid fan of Aussie Gold Hunters ... and even the kangaroos are using coils the size of dustbin lids... and they are pulling out nuggets the size of pin heads. So when I am watching the Ozzie blokes with their dustbin lids ... i keep getting brain flashes of marketing gurus counting piles of cash .. from all the miniature coils they've off loaded, on a willing public.
I think the moral of the story is dont do the outback with a mini coil ... because you wont get owt back ... if you get my drift.
And I've detected some of the most infested sites you can imagine ... imagine the Humber Bridge ,,, until recently the biggest single span in the world, the footings are heavily contamnated with the detritus from one of the worlds most famous engineering feats of its time ... you can attack it with all the mini coils you want ... but at the end of the day success depends on interpreting the quality of the response... and understanding quality of response has more to do with hard earned experience, than it has to do with the latest 1/2 inch coil invented by some bloke raking in the quids, living in a villa not very near us!!
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Re: Am I going about this the wrong way??

Post by oldartefact » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:01 pm

Roberts wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:08 pm
A bigger coil gives better coverage and a little more depth in theory.

I use the 11inch coil but stay in the fast deus/goldmax 18khz programs when in polluted areas and do pretty good with it of course with these modes you lose a bit of depth.

The above two programs give better reactivity and seperation but at the expense of depth whereas a lower frequency will give depth but slower reactivity and work better in a less polluted ground.

Am sure with a bit of tweaking you might get a better depth and as others have posted garys hot program is quite good and brings in results, i personally use the deus(v4.0) with just head phones so its all about the sounds even faint which usually equals depth.

Have you tried the pitch mode?, i find the sounds/seperation are easier to differentiate and you still get depth.

I have added a link to gary's site which specializes in XP deus and has a lot of good information.
Link below
XP deus school site
thank-you Roberts ... you have hit the nail firmly on the head ... so to speak. Particularly on cultivated land... and on cultivated land generally we are not looking for depth, Its about year on year coverage and interpreting the signals. its really important in many parts of Yorkshire where the plough is bringing up goodies to the surface year after year, Cover as much land as you can, as quickly as you can, and the finds will follow.
On pasture its completely a different kettle of coins!
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Re: Am I going about this the wrong way??

Post by oldartefact » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:42 pm

I was on a dig on Sunday ... the bloke next to me was using a 9 inch coil ... i was using an 11 inch coil ... I mentioned that I was covering 25% more land than he was ... but I dont think he got it.. x; x; x; Seriously though ... and I am being very very very serious .. understanding the difference between 1 and 1.25 can make the difference between making a life changing find or not. And that, to anyone who is interested ... is the power of statistics over "lack of knowledge". C.Stat, MSc ... to those that are interested.
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