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Garmin Etrex 10 Advice Please

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Garmin Etrex 10 Advice Please

Post by Wigeon »

I would like to be able to stand over the find spot, press a button and get an OS 10 digit grid reference that is suitable for the PAS.

I have read lots of excellent gps posts on here but have a question.

Is the Garmin Etrex 10 good enough to do the business as above or do I need another model ?

Edit. I originally put 12 digit, which was an error, should have been 10 digit for the PAS. Sorry for the mistake. 8/11/2019.
Last edited by Wigeon on Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Billy Doyle »

I cannot say how the Garmin works, but if you have a smart phone, the 'Tect O Trak' app does a pretty good job of logging your find-spots in the format you need ::g

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Post by Dangerous Norman »

I'm not familiar with the Garmin range but they are probably the best gps you could buy. I'm not sure whether they do display the grid ref. on the screen but to my knowledge they do on the PC.

May be the best way to find out is to go to a outdoor shop and have a talk with the salesman or view a working unit to see if it works for you.

Unless others know more. I use a PDA with OS25 mapping (or my phone with the same maps) which does that and a lot more.

There are phone apps that record your finds such as Ismartdetect which can in many cases do a better job. Phone apps tend to have an average accuracy of around 2.5 mtrs whereas Garmin GPS tend to be more accurate (1 mtr).
Last edited by Dangerous Norman on Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Dave8472 »

Yep, it will do exactly that, I have owned the 10 model, but now have the 20

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Post by Wigeon »

Thank you for the replies.
I did try using a smart phone but it now resides in a drawer. Using GPS on it absolutely ate the battery so when I wanted to use it as a phone it was dead. Now have a Grandads phone that makes and receives calls and texts, which is what I want it to do and the battery last nearly all week.
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Post by sweepstick47 »

Moved this thread to the 'GPS' forum being more appropriate ::g
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Post by FULLTIMER »

It will do exactly what you want, from memory you go to the right page and then just mark a way point, co ordinates are then at the bottom of the page you can also name the way point and save it, i have an older model and before the lead knackered out i'm sure I was able to save the way points to google earth but it's been a long while since being able to do that, I understand the newer models have a usb connection so should be easier.
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Post by Wigeon »

sweepstick47 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:04 pm
Moved this thread to the 'GPS' forum being more appropriate ::g
Thank you. I looked for the GPS forum but couldn't find it. Just looked again but still not found. rl; It doesn't seem to be listed on the left panel. :-/
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Post by Dave8472 »

Wigeon wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:34 pm
sweepstick47 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:04 pm
Moved this thread to the 'GPS' forum being more appropriate ::g
Thank you. I looked for the GPS forum but couldn't find it. Just looked again but still not found. rl; It doesn't seem to be listed on the left panel. :-/
If you scroll all the way down to the accessories forum, it’s in there ::g
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Post by sweepstick47 »

Go to the 'Accessories' forum, hovering the cursor over it brings up the various sub categories, GPS is the penultimate one ::g Regards ss47
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Post by Pete E »

Wigeon wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:59 pm
I would like to be able to stand over the find spot, press a button and get an OS 12 digit grid reference that is suitable for the PAS.
There is no point in quoting a 12 grid ref as a typical consumer grade GPS will have no where near the accuracy to warrant it..

In theory, a 12 grid figure ref would define a 10cm square on the ground and to get that sort of accuracy you would need surveyor grade kit...

If your GPS unit gives a reading with say a 2m accuracy, (and it varies depending on the model and conditions) this is actually an *average* figure and on the ground represents an area covered by a potentially fluctuating circle with a 2m radius..

Even if your GPS says its giving a reading with 1m accuracy, that's still a potentially fluctuating circle with an average radius of 1m ie 2m across...

I would say that as detectorists, with typical consumer grade kit, there really is no point in giving a grid ref of more than 8 figures, with the 10 figure grid refs being "questionable" at best, although I know many FLO's don't seem to grasp this..
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Post by f8met »

I have the Etrex 30 which works the same as the 10. As others have said, mark as a waypoint, it gives you a 10 figure grid, then add a note of what the find is for future reference.

You can then export to Google Earth and see any hot spots.
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Post by Mancave-man »

Have used the Garmin Etrex 10 for years. FLO is more than happy to receive my find spots regardless of how accurate (or not) they may be.

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Post by Wigeon »

Pete E wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:31 am
Wigeon wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:59 pm
I would like to be able to stand over the find spot, press a button and get an OS 12 digit grid reference that is suitable for the PAS.
There is no point in quoting a 12 grid ref as a typical consumer grade GPS will have no where near the accuracy to warrant it..

In theory, a 12 grid figure ref would define a 10cm square on the ground and to get that sort of accuracy you would need surveyor grade kit...

If your GPS unit gives a reading with say a 2m accuracy, (and it varies depending on the model and conditions) this is actually an *average* figure and on the ground represents an area covered by a potentially fluctuating circle with a 2m radius..

Even if your GPS says its giving a reading with 1m accuracy, that's still a potentially fluctuating circle with an average radius of 1m ie 2m across...

I would say that as detectorists, with typical consumer grade kit, there really is no point in giving a grid ref of more than 8 figures, with the 10 figure grid refs being "questionable" at best, although I know many FLO's don't seem to grasp this..
Thanks for the info PeteE ::g . I had sausage finger trouble. I should have put 10 digit not 12 so have amended the original post to read 10.
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Post by jcmaloney »

f8met wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:05 am
I have the Etrex 30 which works the same as the 10. As others have said, mark as a waypoint, it gives you a 10 figure grid, then add a note of what the find is for future reference.

You can then export to Google Earth and see any hot spots.

As above, ETrex 10, there is a free tool called "Handy GPS" that takes the .kml file and makes it usable with GE etc etc.
Plenty accurate enough for PAS.
As a side note my CTX and ETrex are both to within a metre or so of each other although that can still be a few metres out depending on satellite visibility.
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Post by Dangerous Norman »

Pete E wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:31 am

There is no point in quoting a 12 grid ref as a typical consumer grade GPS will have no where near the accuracy to warrant it..

In theory, a 12 grid figure ref would define a 10cm square on the ground and to get that sort of accuracy you would need surveyor grade kit...

If your GPS unit gives a reading with say a 2m accuracy, (and it varies depending on the model and conditions) this is actually an *average* figure and on the ground represents an area covered by a potentially fluctuating circle with a 2m radius..

Even if your GPS says its giving a reading with 1m accuracy, that's still a potentially fluctuating circle with an average radius of 1m ie 2m across...

I would say that as detectorists, with typical consumer grade kit, there really is no point in giving a grid ref of more than 8 figures, with the 10 figure grid refs being "questionable" at best, although I know many FLO's don't seem to grasp this..
I agree a 12 digit grid ref would require far more professional GPS equipment than most users have. From what I understand accuracy id down to obtaining a good signal from as many satellites as possible and most GPS units can process data from 12 or more.
The problem with phones is not all have true GPS, many only have aGPS which gets the signal from the radio mast's signal and not the satellites. Those that do have true GPS also use aGPS for quicker (but less accurate) initial location.
Most true GPS are capable of giving very good accuracy (<=1mtr) but require a better antenna than is fitted in a phone. My hand held GPS accuracy improved with the addition of an external antenna located above head height. Weather & terrain also play havoc with GPS signals.

I have done non-scientific tests on 2 tablets (GPS only) & 2 phones (aGPS & GPS) (all 4 with OS mapping) compared to my dedicated GPS with OS mapping and results showed both tablets & phones were typically 3 mtrs out (least distance out was just over 2 mtrs, max was 5 mtrs) and the dedicated GPS typically 1mtr out (max error <=1.5 mtr).

All tests done on open reasonably high ground and a good clear sky summer's day when GPS signals good quality.

A 10 digit equals 1 sqmtr accuracy whereas an 8 digit is 100 sqmtr accuracy (10mtr x 10mtr). It is better to give 10 digit with up to 1 mrt error than 8 digit with the same 1 mtr error especially is the 5 digit of each block is an 7, 8 or 9.

From what I know, based on feedback from several friends with Garmin GPS, their equipment is typically accurate to 1 mtr. All accuracy measurements are taken from features marked on the OS25 scale maps such as fence lines, roads, ROW etc. I assume the OS25 scale maps to be accutate.

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Post by jcmaloney »

Another useful tool........... https://gridreferencefinder.com/

Simple zoom in, right click to drop a pin..... instant NGR. ::g
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Post by Wigeon »

I have been loaned an Etrex 10 for a few days to see how I get on with it.

I read the manual and watched a YouTube clip, then had a go at setting it on the OS Grid reference for the UK.

Much to my amazement it worked perfectly, giving me the 10 digit grid reference required by the PAS. I checked it with grid reference finder and it is spot on.

I did this from my kitchen, so no view of the sky. The pinpoint even showed the area of our house where the kitchen is located.

Garmin Etrex 10 definitely on my Christmas list ::g

I have recently bought a DSLR camera and macro lens for photographing my finds too x; .
Getting a real techno in my old age h;@ :D
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Post by Jungle »

I have used the etrex 10 for a few years but have just got a touch 25 as I'm about to run out of waypoints. The touch screen also gets past the mud in the joystick hole issue. The touch battery life, due to bigger screen, is reduced.
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Post by Pete E »

Wigeon wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:23 pm
I have been loaned an Etrex 10 for a few days to see how I get on with it.

I read the manual and watched a YouTube clip, then had a go at setting it on the OS Grid reference for the UK.

Much to my amazement it worked perfectly, giving me the 10 digit grid reference required by the PAS. I checked it with grid reference finder and it is spot on.

I did this from my kitchen, so no view of the sky. The pinpoint even showed the area of our house where the kitchen is located.
Best way to test it is to find a small fixed feature on the ground, (say a man hole cover) and take a number of readings from that feature over the course of a week and compare how close the grid references are.

Then do the reverse ie put each of the grid references into the GPS and use the "Go To" function and see how close it takes you to the original spot...
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Post by Wigeon »

Pete E wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:32 am
Wigeon wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:23 pm
I have been loaned an Etrex 10 for a few days to see how I get on with it.

I read the manual and watched a YouTube clip, then had a go at setting it on the OS Grid reference for the UK.

Much to my amazement it worked perfectly, giving me the 10 digit grid reference required by the PAS. I checked it with grid reference finder and it is spot on.

I did this from my kitchen, so no view of the sky. The pinpoint even showed the area of our house where the kitchen is located.
Best way to test it is to find a small fixed feature on the ground, (say a man hole cover) and take a number of readings from that feature over the course of a week and compare how close the grid references are.

Then do the reverse ie put each of the grid references into the GPS and use the "Go To" function and see how close it takes you to the original spot...
Thank you for the advice Pete E ::g Yesterday afternoon I took it with me whilst walking my dog.
I took three waypoints from readily recognisable spots. When I got home I put them into grid reference finder and they all showed a spot a few feet to the north of where I was actually standing.
I recorded the waypoints almost immediately after switching the eTrex 10 on.

Would I be right in thinking that it may perform at its best if left a few minutes to acquire more satellites before taking the reading ? Perhaps a daft question though ?

I will try the tests that you recommend then the 'Go To' function. Hopefully they will give me a more 'real world' idea of its accuracy. Thanks again.
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Post by Dangerous Norman »

Garmin GPS are usually fast at getting a lock but like most GPS need a bit longer to lock on to all available satellites. Weather such as heavy cloud, rain etc. can cause errors as can tall buildings etc. Usually at takes longer to lock if you go to a totally different location than the last time it was used before switching on. It can take up to 5 mins for full accuracy. Normally best to switch on as soon as you get to starting point and leave it on to you are ready to leave.

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Post by Dangerous Norman »

Wigeon wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:45 am

Would I be right in thinking that it may perform at its best if left a few minutes to acquire more satellites before taking the reading ? Perhaps a daft question though ?
Not a daft question, the only daft questions are those you don't ask and don't know the answer to.

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Post by Wigeon »

Just for any members who, like me, are learning the basics of GPS, I have found this American site that explains how to do various actions in an easily understood format.

This site, together with downloading the user manual, our member's advice and YouTube has been most helpful ::g .

Old dogs can learn new tricks...… it just takes longer ;) .

https://www.lowergear.com/how_to_use_gps-find_location
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Post by Wigeon »

I have been using a Garmin Etrex 10, first borrowed, then my own one for Christmas. It really is an amazing piece of kit.

I have learned a lot in those few months. Providing I do my bit in giving it time to acquire satellites and settle down, it is spot on for accuracy.

Following advice on this thread from two of our members, I found that the simplest way to mark finds on the map is by putting the 2 letter and 10 digit national grid reference (BNG on Garmin) into grid reference finder. The attached picture is an example of plotting an extinct medieval course of a fenland Lode into an extinct mere, using the grid reference finder site. [81/]

A friend has helped me put more complex numbers of find marker waypoints onto Google Earth using the Garmin Basecamp piece of free software, however as soon as he is not talking me through it, I manage to do something daft and screw up. [50/]

I was wondering if anyone has a simple 'Janet and John' set of step by step instructions for this process please ?
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Post by f8met »

Are you happy to have your exact grid points on a national forum? Not saying that they are finds but more that they could be used by the less than honourable people going for a night time wander?

I used to live 4 miles from there.
Last edited by f8met on Thu May 28, 2020 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Steve_T »

What f8met said u;@
Not good to put co-ordinates or any identifying info that could pinpoint the locations, I would edit and use the name of the item. Either do that in Basecamp before export or edit in GE

In base camp you can set the find spots with an XY 10 digits preferred by FLO's to save you searching for them, if you have the Garmin set up with BNG

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Post by Wigeon »

Thankyou Dave and Steve for your concern, which I know is sincere.

The coordinates mark a line of medieval silt so may be of interest to any nighthawking geologists. :)666 [49/] [81/]

Just for the record, I had a thirty year police career, so familiar with most forms of skulduggery.
Albeit getting a bit long in the tooth, I haven't gone soft in the head......yet. [88/]

Thanks again for your concern, which is fair comment cautionary advice for finds and the like.

Now how about that 'Janet and John' on loading coordinates with a Windows 10 laptop from Basecamp into Google Earth? :-/
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Post by f8met »

I think I had to go through another program to convert them to the right format. I know I have done it in the past. I think you might need a .KML? To be fair I was always stumbling in the dark and bodging it.

I know I did it as here is the proof of a Roman scatter.

Image
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Post by Wigeon »

f8met wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 10:11 pm
I think I had to go through another program to convert them to the right format. I know I have done it in the past. I think you might need a .KML? To be fair I was always stumbling in the dark and bodging it.

I know I did it as here is the proof of a Roman scatter.

Image
Thanks Dave. I am in exactly the same position. I have managed it once with about 40 finds from a medieval fishing platform. Worked like a dream. Can I do it again ?...… no chance. ;;z
Once the file is created from the Etrex, via Basecamp it does need saving as a KLM as you rightly say. Whatever is causing me to screw up is going to be simple verging on the idiotic. I just know it. [50/]
The picture is a snip of the Google Earth image that I managed to create.
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