H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

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H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by mrix » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:06 am

Hello all, over the years something called the H.A.M.M.Y Code was added as an addition to our rules section, this was basically put in place because more and more people were joining to ask for ID requests and the information they were posting was simply shall we say very much below par and not really suitable information to help make an ID.

It become very clear the ID system was simply being abused, Many members could clearly see an increase in very basic requests like, "What’s This" "ID this" basically hardly any info given at all, Poor pics, Poor titles etc etc.

It quickly become clear something needed to be put in place to stop this growing trend of members offering less than ideal info when making an ID request, many thought it was disrespectful to expect our brilliant members who help identify coins and artefacts if the ID requester could not even bothered adding a little more basic info to assist making an ID :(

Within the Mods section a few thoughts were bounded around to try and tackle the situation until eventually the idea of the H.A.M.M.Y Code was born.

On a whole this worked very well as all members were now required to put in a little more effort when asking for an ID.

This in turn

1) made the ID request far more interesting as a more detailed description was given

2) Reasonably good pictures was a must as it made an ID easier to establish

3) Obviously a scale to show the correct size was important.


The Negatives..

1) Some people find it difficult to add scale

2) Some members simply don’t want to add scale

3) We have to help new members on a daily basis on how to add pictures which is one of our largest tasks.

4) Some members ask why the need for a scale on Roman coins? Well first it keeps everyone in the habit of posting with a scale, secondly not everyone knows the size of Roman coins so it can be interesting for the less experienced and generally people reading the topic to actually see how big a coin is regardless if it’s obvious to some, it’s not necessarily solely for ID purposes.
I have seen a fair few ID requests over the years without any form of scale and have often wondered how big a coin or artefact actually is.

Right finally down to the Nitty Gritty :)

The reason for this post today is that every so often we get feedback where some members feel really disgruntled that they have been asked to add information like scale and other details to their ID request, they may of noticed their post has been removed into a pending state until additional info has been added or a replacement request made, this can upset some members
so much so they have decided not to post here anymore :(
They feel they are being dictated to, feel that we are simply being far too harsh with the hammy code, almost like a dictatorship:-O :(

The last thing we want is to upset members and make them feel this way, We are simply only trying to keep the MDF resource running the best way we possibly can, hearing such negative feedback is obviously disappointing but something that cannot be ignored and hence why I have created this topic today.

If you could please post your honest feedback on the H.A.M.MY Code ID request rule we have here it would be greatly appreciated, this would give us an idea of how many members actually do have a problem with the present system, obviously we cannot please everyone but from this post we may be able to establish an overall feeling towards it. ::g

Thanks all
mrix



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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by fred » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:16 am

Please put in a link to the HAMMY code. I struggled to actually find it. ::g
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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by mrix » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:19 am

fred wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:16 am
Pleas put in a link to the HAMMY code. I struggled to actually find it. ::g
Hi Fred, the H.A.M.M.Y Code is in your Forum rules section, number 7 rule
Other Guidelines
ID Requests, we are always pleased to see members finds and share in your excitement. However, please consider the HAMMY code below if you also wish to have a good ID. This top class free service is provided by other forum members and they need as much INFORMATION as possible. Many of us struggle with the technical side of taking pictures and loading them onto a post, so and here is just one of the excellent help topic that should make life easier! viewtopic.php?f=42&t=30060
Your special find should be special to us all. Happy hunting, Forum Staff.

H - Have at least two good sized clear photos.
A - Info about your detecting day, type of land, depth found.
M - Measure items by doing the pics next to a scale or ruler.
M - Machine used? settings? interesting to other users.
Y - You will always get a better ID if you supply more information. #
But yes maybe it should be shown in a far more prominent position somewhere else ::g

Thanks
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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by f8met » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:21 am

It should be a 2 way street. If you ask for something you should have the respect of those around to at least add the basics. For some it is a technical challenge, some it is eagerness to show their finds and others it is lazyness or that it doesn't apply to them. Anyone can see from the ID section what others are doing and that should be enough of an example for them to follow.

It is not difficult, there are plenty of free scales, cheap rulers or tape measures from poundland available for people to do it. It takes seconds to put a scale next to it and send in the same photo. I am not a fan of having coins as scales but at the end of the day it is better than nothing.

I also think if people are getting upset about the simple rules and feedback and are not willing to listen and take on board the basics then they are cutting their noses off to spite their face.

I do find annoying that people keep posting for friends without having the basics in place.

There has to be standards and I think how it is at the moment is fine.
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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by Lowland » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:31 am

Morning,
Without the code to keep the quality up it might as well be a Facebook group.
I feel, The MDF should be the benchmark for ID requests,
I’ve not always used a proper scale till recently (thanks oxgirl ::g )
Also think details like type of ground,other finds from the area etc.
Add immensely to the posts interest wise and also sometimes for getting a good ID.
Keep up the great work-would be lost without the MDF
::g
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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by fred » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:33 am

At the moment the HAMMY code is hidden in an excellent but long post. It needs to stand in its own clearly identified heading, perhaps even on the Home Page with a link to the main article. E.G. How to ask for a find ID - remember HAMMY!

When people first register send an automatic email explaining briefly the details needed for an ID and point them towards the article.

Emasculate all offenders with the rusty agricultural instrument they are trying to get identified. :D
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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by beaubrummell » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:40 am

Would it be possible for new members to receive an automatic email from MDF when they first register explaining the HAMMY Code?

I'm amazed that anyone would find adhering to the HAMMY code a chore. If uploading correctly sized pictures to this site is beyond them then there are web hosting sites where it is easy to upload pictures to and then link to.

If folks are posting finds here looking for an ID from one of the many helpful and expert members of this forum, the least they can do is provide the information necessary to ascertain that ID eg size, clear photos, an idea re what it's made of (lead, pewter etc) and also where it was found. Sometimes a location of a find gives a vital clue i.e. you're unlikely to find an old piece of farm equipment on the beach or a rusty boat rollock on pasture.

We are lucky to have access to this wonderful forum with it's wealth of research knowledge and resident experts willing to spend time on behalf of others to make ID's as well as a myriad of other things...............and all for free.

Personally I'd say good riddance to anybody who is not prepared to meet these very basic requirements.
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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by moormatt » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:00 am

Personally I found the HAMMY code useful as it made me a bit more rigorous about what I was asking. Also as a relative newcomer to metal detecting I find the settings that other detectorists are using really informative. I suspect, like most people, I also really enjoy the write-ups and if these are better because of the HAMMY code then that can only be a good thing.

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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by lonecoiler » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:09 am

I think the HAMMY code is good. MDF is not like the antiques road show where you turn up with and article and can give and receive information verbally. Identification is given on MDF by the information presented by the finder so it needs to be presented in the best way with maximum information.
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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by Batman » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:11 am

For me personally........spot on as it is. ::g

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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by kenleyboy » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:14 am

I agree that the Hammy code would be far better if it did stand out more as an independent title .To be honest in my early days on here I didn't really understand the significance of the hammy code , but after a few knuckle wraps and reading some of the posts regarding the importance of the basic rules set in place I can now understand why it is imperative that requests are followed . It is a two way street , firstly it helps those who are knowledgable to correctly identify the subject in question and secondly benefits those who have posted a request for ID as well as other members , it just adds that little bit more of the wealth of knowledge that is on here .

My only gripe in the early days was the posting of images and if you are not computer savvy like me it was a bit of trial and I do still see some members are still struggling with this format ,however with the kind help of Oxgirl the free online pic resize does the job for me .

If people misbehave and get disgruntled if things do not go their way then do you really want members on board with that sort of attitude , makes you wonder what their behaviour is like out on the field .
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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by Bootneck45RM » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:25 am

Good topic and really worthwhile, I hold my hands up to being guilty of lack of scale useage but thanks to watching and learning from others more accomplished feel that I'm improving gradually. Still coming to terms with "Pixler" (other apps are available) but feel that as it stands the hammy code is great and both refines our professionalism and adds interest and knowledge to our hobby.
It ain't broke so dont fix it please.
We just need to adhere to those few simple rules, so I'm all for no change to it all.
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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by mrix » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:32 am

Huge thanks for the feedback so far, it has been all positive which is great news but if anyone has a niggle or dislike regarding anything to do with the H.A.M.M.Y Code this is a really good opportunity to air your feelings, maybe you have an idea where the system could be tweaked slightly, good honest replies positive and negative are all greatly received ::g B-)
Thanks
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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by Easylife » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:38 am

mrix wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:06 am
Every so often we get feedback where some members feel really disgruntled that they have been asked to add information like scale and other details to their ID request,.......... this can upset some members so much so they have decided not to post here anymore.
Well that's their own loss if they are just too lazy or unable to grasp the logical reasoning for it. I agree that the minimal requirements for an ID are good pics, metal type (if known) and size – any other supplied info may be relevant also but adds to interest regardless. If anyone begrudges supplying that basic ID info here then they should just stick with whatever FB group they picked up the bad habit.

I struggled to find the Forum rules also, to me highlighting it in yellow has the opposite effect as I was only drawn to the list of white category titles. x;
In the 'Forum rules' number 8 'Image attachment quota' it would be beneficial if the maximum image resolution and file size was stated – that alone may reduce the many 'image oversize' upload issues raised by newbies. x;
::g
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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by TheMellowedMole » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:45 am

This is my view on the H.A.M.M.Y code there is nothing wrong with it, it all make perfect sence but it might not do any harm to make it stand out a little bit more to get it noticed more easily.
IE.Something like what was recently done with the MDF Shop site

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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by fred » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:05 am

mrix wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:32 am
Huge thanks for the feedback so far, it has been all positive which is great news but if anyone has a niggle or dislike regarding anything to do with the H.A.M.M.Y Code this is a really good opportunity to air your feelings, maybe you have an idea where the system could be tweaked slightly, good honest replies positive and negative are all greatly received ::g B-)
Thanks
mrix

It would be really useful if all forum members gave some indication about their location. This would probably be best done at the registration stage so it appears on their profile and doesn't have to be anything more than a County or even area of the country. I know people could fib but it can make a real difference to IDing some finds. The type of detector being used would also be of interest. Statements like 'came up as 30' have a limited value unless you know what bloody detector it is. :D
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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by Easylife » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:27 am

fred wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:05 am
It would be really useful if all forum members gave some indication about their location. :D
So where are you then Fred? =))
It is personal choice, but many users are likely unaware that location can easily be added.
User control panel - Profile - Location. ::g
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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by littleboot » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:29 am

I can't really understand someone asking for something...help, free info etc...which enhances their enjoyment of their hobby....and complaining when there is the very reasonable and modest proviso that they add some needed info to their request.
And if they are so disgruntled as to not want to post again I tend to think it isn't much loss. Presumably they would simply be posted yet more ID requests where they simply wanted something without putting any effort in.
I don't think the forum should pander to the lazy mindset. Its not remotely difficult to post a decent picture and a scale of some kind...be it a ruler of a modern coin or simply put the find onto a piece of graph paper.It all comes down to motivation.
I can't grasp how anyone who is truly into the hobby could be so half-baked about getting ID. I don't think the solution is to give up the present standards to be honest. All it will do is to reward people for being lazy. And the excuse that is given about adding scale and uploading pics being difficult is often spurious....it comes down to effort. They use a computer and a metal detector...the technophobe excuse doesn't really hold water. They can ask for help if need be. It doesn't cost anything. It simply takes a bit of patience and time they don't feel they need to waste. (While gratuitously wanting to use those qualities in others.)
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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by Oxgirl36 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:30 am

The HAMMY code is also stickied to the top of the ID section in its own thread ::g

viewtopic.php?f=120&t=98991

It is also in the forum guide and, as already said, the rules. Obviously though it isn't being seen or noticed - is there more we could do to make it obvious?
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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by Slapster » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:48 am

Just starting out in this hobby and have yet to ask for assistance....... but......

If/when i ask for help from others, especially the incredible knowledge base of some of the members here, I would expect to adhere by the HAMMY rules - they seem basic, common sense and, to be honest, show a little respect to the ID'ers.

I want your help, I either supply the required, or move on.....

SIMPLES.......
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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by Lowland » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:12 pm

Oxgirl36 wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:30 am
The HAMMY code is also stickied to the top of the ID section in its own thread ::g

viewtopic.php?f=120&t=98991

It is also in the forum guide and, as already said, the rules. Obviously though it isn't being seen or noticed - is there more we could do to make it obvious?
How about when I select the new post on finds ID to put up another find...
The code could be pop up at the top every time?
Cheers ::g
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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by mrix » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:15 pm

Lowland wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:12 pm
Oxgirl36 wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:30 am
The HAMMY code is also stickied to the top of the ID section in its own thread ::g

viewtopic.php?f=120&t=98991

It is also in the forum guide and, as already said, the rules. Obviously though it isn't being seen or noticed - is there more we could do to make it obvious?
How about when I select the new post on finds ID to put up another find...
The code could be pop up at the top every time?
Cheers ::g
Hello, Lowland, interesting idea ::g
Making the Code more prominent is certainly high on the list of things to do ::g
Thanks
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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by shaggybfc » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:31 pm

Adding to Lowland's idea - maybe a table could be automatically in-bedded into the free text box that directs the requester to input the required detail, then they can add their ID request information and pictures? That way we'd get the information given to us in a consistent format. Would it be too much to ask of the forum software that each box has to contain some text before the page accepts the submit?

Other than that, the Hammy code is easy to follow as is. I fully understand that in the excitement of finding something nice and wanting to get it on the forum quickly, detail is missed - been there and got the tee-shirt
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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by beaubrummell » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:33 pm

I don't suppose there's a way that the HAMMY Code could be locked at position 1 on the MDF Home Page is there? It would never need to be bumped then and would be ever visible at the top of the list.
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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by Koala » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:40 pm

all seem to be very reasonable to me.

Asking for an ID with little more than a blurry image and no scale reminds me of the old saying Garbage In, Garbage Out (GIGO).

certain object types such as tokens, seal matrix, militia and livery buttons a general location will often help.


There are times when I haven't used the Hammy Code due to posting on someone else behalf. I have explained this in the post and haven't been shot down in flames yet for it.

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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by Batman » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:45 pm

You could have a separate link and within the link is a series of steps you have to fill in info wise before the request could be submitted. I.e type of land, depth, machine, settings , pictures with scale , etc.

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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by Steve_T » Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:02 pm

Why not substitute the submit button with "have you followed the HAMMY code" banner. Only after Preview is selected the Submit button is available

It begars belief that people spend hundreds on a detector and can't spare a £ on a ruler and is disrespectful to add a brief " What's this" without some information on how and what found and readouts and type of land etc
And rude if not acknowledged for the help received by good people on this forum

I refer to the CBA mob that prevail in today's society in all areas including forums, take take take and no give

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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by Oxgirl36 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:01 pm

Koala wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:40 pm

There are times when I haven't used the Hammy Code due to posting on someone else behalf. I have explained this in the post and haven't been shot down in flames yet for it.
Genuinely interested here on friend requests. We debate how hard we should be on these.
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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by Zyrbalax » Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:12 pm

As a relatively new member, I find the HAMMY code to be excellent; a simple reminder of the key bits of information the experts need in order to have a decent chance at identifying... whatever it is.

What I think newcomers need to remember (apart from the HAMMY code of course) is that by putting up a find for id on this forum, you are asking a group of people you don't know, who are often experts in their field, and are not paid a sou to do it, to spend time figuring out what it is they're looking at. They're doing you a favour, from kindness and professional interest. They don't have to, and if you don't supply the requested information I think it would be perfectly reasonable for all our experts to just shrug and ignore the request.

Many times I have felt people have gone well out of their way to provide additional information about finds I've put up for id - well beyond just a "this is what it is" - and it has enriched my understanding of my finds and of British and local history too. This board runs on huge amounts of goodwill, and I hope people recognise and respect that.

The HAMMY code is, in my opinion, just fine as it is. There are already some good suggestions for tweaks to how it's presented, to make it more noticeable.

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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by f8met » Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:40 pm

Oxgirl36 wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:01 pm
Genuinely interested here on friend requests. We debate how hard we should be on these.

There may well be a place for it if the finder is not tech savvy. There are still detectorists who can't or won't use a computer. It may not be practical or possible for someone to join this site so they may not even have access to the FLOs or the PAS database to look. If it is done properly you won't even notice if it is the poster or their friends find.

But those who are posting for a friend should still abide by the rules. The line "sorry it is not up to scratch but can you ID anyway" shows they know what they should be doing so there should be no reason for them not to go back to their friend and say can you please put a scale on it and show both sides and give more information like detector, ground etc. If it takes another day to ID it then it doesn't matter and it actually gives the enquirer a bit more respect for following the rules.

Just my opinion for what it is worth ::g
Dave
Deus, 9" and 11" black coil
2019 24 Hammered
Hit my 200th hammered!

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