Quoted R&D Project to design a 'discriminiating' PI detector

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sweepstick47
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Quoted R&D Project to design a 'discriminiating' PI detector

Post by sweepstick47 » Tue May 22, 2018 10:45 pm

This is a quoted extract from a post made by 'Fusion' which I consider to be worth copying into this sub-forum to whet the appetite for PI enthusiasts ::g

Quote "It may be worth keeping up-to-date with news on Fisher metal detectors, they are working on a new discriminating PI in collaboration with the French designer of the 'Manta' machine".

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Re: Quoted R&D Project to design a 'discriminating' PI detector

Post by Fusion » Tue May 22, 2018 11:53 pm

It's not a secret.
The engineer's name is Alexandre Tartar, his own project is the Manta:
http://www.mantametaldetectors.com/
He's now officially working with First Texas Products ( Fisher, Teknetics, Bounty Hunter, etc) on developing the product further.
Manta's and Fisher-Manta machines are currently being tested in real world hunts. A Frenchman "LeJag" posts his beach finds on here, many are found with his Manta, which he speaks highly of.
Example:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=100083
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=101276

But the unknown is when the Fisher version(s) will be available for the public to buy.

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Re: Quoted R&D Project to design a 'discriminiating' PI detector

Post by Machinist » Wed May 23, 2018 8:09 am

I am eagerly awaiting this machine to go into production, it has been a rumor for years and now looks like they are finally near to producing them.

Let's keep it quiet please, I do not want to be on a waiting list for months trying to get one :))

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Re: Quoted R&D Project to design a 'discriminiating' PI detector

Post by chesters4 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:14 pm

Its ok in theory but in practice the discrimination side of any machine (vlf or pulse) rarely goes as deep as the machine can detect metal objects .
You may have 10 or so inches in earth before the discrination circuit gets confused but in salt water i would judge less as the minerals are effecting the more sensitive discrimination side of the signal .
Fine for some of the signals but i would guess you will still be digging everything deeper that the pulse machine excells in IE the deeper signals the technology provides
Unfortunately that old thing called physics gets in the way
IMHO machines are judged in the discrimination side of the machine being accurate ,designing some crude deep seeker is easy

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Re: Quoted R&D Project to design a 'discriminiating' PI detector

Post by fred » Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:46 am

chesters4 wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:14 pm
Its ok in theory but in practice the discrimination side of any machine (vlf or pulse) rarely goes as deep as the machine can detect metal objects .
You may have 10 or so inches in earth before the discrination circuit gets confused but in salt water i would judge less as the minerals are effecting the more sensitive discrimination side of the signal .
Fine for some of the signals but i would guess you will still be digging everything deeper that the pulse machine excells in IE the deeper signals the technology provides
Unfortunately that old thing called physics gets in the way
IMHO machines are judged in the discrimination side of the machine being accurate ,designing some crude deep seeker is easy
I entirely agree that the the sales pitches tend to concentrate on a machines ability to precisely identify targets before they are dug. For me this is just 'dumbing down' in order to sell more machines to newbies or the gulluble and can be very misleading.

Screen ID tends not to work reliably beyond a foot or so, however, upper end multifrequency machines can still be used to distinguish between deep ferrous and nonferrous targets. This is done using the sound and the 'shape' of the signal. At the moment this analysis has to be done by the user based on experience but signal processing has advanced a lot so it may yet become possible to digitally indicate deep keepers better.

Personally I think that in most discussions depth is overstated simply because there is a practical limit on how deep it is possible to recover targets from by hand. I find digging to 18 inches is ok, if a little tiring, in firm beach conditions and 2 feet is about the absolute limit. Even if you could get a machine to indicate a nonferrous target beyond these depths how are you going to extract it without causing severe environmental or heritage damage?

A discriminating PI might well have commercial applications but, in my opinion, any hobby benefits are likely to be pretty limited. Still conidering that a discriminating PI has always been the holy grail of detecting it will be very interesting to see how this project develops. :D
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Re: Quoted R&D Project to design a 'discriminiating' PI detector

Post by Fusion » Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:43 pm

The Manta website I linked to in my earlier post has recently changed:

Maintenance mode is on
Website will be available soon
© FIRST TEXAS PRODUCTS 2018


Any news, info may well appear there, ( or on First Texas' Facebook page )

Update: I hear Fisher have made a new name for it, so maybe this Manta website is not going to give any new info....
Last edited by Fusion on Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Quoted R&D Project to design a 'discriminiating' PI detector

Post by Lytle78 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:43 pm

The project seems to progressing - the French team was in El Paso recently.

The discrimination is useful apparently to good depth, but all metal is deeper. That’s not different than most VLF IB detectors. Serious beach hunters with Excalibur’s usually hunt in all-metal and use disc to cross-check.

The depth is more than a matter of absolute max depth on - for example a large ring - it also, combined with an extremely quiet circuit capable of greater depth on small gold jewelry which other machines can’t hit at modest depths. More useful sensitivity at all depths.

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