F75 ltd notch

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Nailman
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F75 ltd notch

Post by Nailman » Mon May 25, 2015 6:08 pm

I've been out today on a hard baked clay surface trying out my new ultimate coil
I hunted in all metal plenty of signals
I was ignoring numbers 1-8 and was wondering if you can use the notch in all metal the instruction book is as clear as mud

Given that notch is on the discrim side of the menu I'am guessing no, can anyone shed any light on this :-/


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Re: F75 ltd notch

Post by Fusion » Mon May 25, 2015 6:19 pm

The manual is good, but should be 'excellent' for such a high-end machine.

And all-metal is exactly that. ALL. Notch is a discrimination-mode feature.
If you want to 'notch out' 1-8 in disc mode, I suggest using JE mode, not DE. You will lose depth with disc set to 8 in DE.
:(

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Re: F75 ltd notch

Post by Nailman » Mon May 25, 2015 6:58 pm

Thanks Fusion I've allways used tone ID machines this is a new venture for me a machine with a screen and number ID , love it nice and light and gives good signals ::g
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Re: F75 ltd notch

Post by digger27 » Sat May 30, 2015 2:26 pm

Many are confused by the notch system on the F series detectors.
It ain't like notch on other brands exactly so this is the way I think about it to get it straight in my mind.

With disc set low setting a notch in areas above will notch targets out.
With disc set high if you set notches below that point you are actually doing the opposite and notching areas back in.

Unlike my F70 which always notches out, (or in), complete sections the F75 can knock out half the range...a very handy feature to have in some areas with a lot of certain types of trash.

A warning...
Setting a notch and then turning that setting back down to 1 doesn't always get rid of the notch.
In my experience it never does.
Once I was hunting an area, accidentally moved the notch from 1 to 2, moved it back but from that point on I was not hearing any iron at all which was strange because I knew there was a lot there.
You will be hunting with different settings than you might think if you set notches and believe you will be back to normal if you do it this way.
After setting notches it is always recommended to do a reset and just adjust to new settings from there when you want to change just to be sure.
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Re: F75 ltd notch

Post by Fusion » Sat May 30, 2015 3:26 pm

Luckily, the original poster wasn't really wanting notch, he wanted disc, as he simply wanted to 'eliminate' small iron (1-8).
We very rarely use notch here in the UK. As a result, most users don't know how to use it, how to recognise if it's been set, or how to remove it if it does become set (easy to do accidentally). The simplest solution is to make sure you know how to Factory Reset the machine (see the User Manual), and then set it up from scratch.
The other method is to practice setting/varying the Notch until you do become familiar. In which case you'll come upon this problem:
"Setting a notch and then turning that setting back down to 1 doesn't (always) get rid of the notch. In my experience it never does."
This is true. To remove a Notch setting, use the Menu button to select the 'Notch' function, and then press the rotary control in. It's a button as well as a rotary control, and appears to perform a 'Cancel' function. It works on other modes, too, though isn't needed. [this might not work on all models of F75, there are several software versions]
Last edited by Fusion on Sat May 30, 2015 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
:(

digger27
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Re: F75 ltd notch

Post by digger27 » Sat May 30, 2015 3:52 pm

Fusion wrote:Luckily, the original poster wasn't really wanting notch, he wanted disc. We very rarely use notch here in the UK. As a result, most users don't know how to use it, how to recognise if it's been set, or how to remove it if it does become set (easy to do accidentally). The simplest solution is to make sure you know how to Factory Reset the machine (see the User Manual), and then set it up from scratch.
The other method is to practice setting/varying the Notch until you do become familiar. In which case you'll come upon this problem:
"Setting a notch and then turning that setting back down to 1 doesn't (always) get rid of the notch. In my experience it never does."
It's true. To remove Notch, have the menu in the 'Notch' setting, and press the rotary control in. It's a button as well as a rotary control, and appears to perform a 'Cancel' function. It works on other modes, too, though isn't needed. [this might not work on all machines, there are several software versions]

There have been many threads over here regarding this notching subject with many confused newbies asking many questions.
Me, I never use notch except one time at a site with a bunch of sta-tabs when I got extremely tired of digging them, and I wasn't really thrilled to do that for long because I am a gold hunter at my core.
Most times my disc stays between 4-6 at most sites and that works fine even in heavy iron.
I usually like to see everything that is going on down there and the top line F series detectors work very well in the way they alert you to iron without mentally fatigueing you the way they do it.
Just because you get many signals doesn't mean you have to dig them all.
I would rather make most digging decisions using my brain and experience rather than letting my detectors make those decisions for me.
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Re: F75 ltd notch

Post by Fusion » Sat May 30, 2015 4:05 pm

Yes, that's the general advice given to newcomers over here, too. Notch is really a US park-hunting feature (pull-tab removal etc), and is certainly not one of the F75's selling features on this side of the Pond.

I normally use the machine with disc set to 1, to get maximum depth. Setting it to 3,4,5 will lose depth (DE mode). I may sometimes raise disc to 5 if I've got interference pickup, as the software changes over to a different disc algorithm at 5 and above, and it's much quieter in operation.

The original poster, Mr. Nailman, does raise an interesting question, though. It's perfectly possible for the disc mode settings (including any notch in/out) to be carried over to the display on the all-metal mode. So, in his example, a "disc number=6" size nail would just give a blank display.
As far as I'm aware, this non-carry-over is still present on the new DST-software versions.
:(

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Re: F75 ltd notch

Post by digger27 » Sun May 31, 2015 9:56 pm

Fusion wrote:Yes, that's the general advice given to newcomers over here, too. Notch is really a US park-hunting feature (pull-tab removal etc), and is certainly not one of the F75's selling features on this side of the Pond.

I normally use the machine with disc set to 1, to get maximum depth. Setting it to 3,4,5 will lose depth (DE mode). I may sometimes raise disc to 5 if I've got interference pickup, as the software changes over to a different disc algorithm at 5 and above, and it's much quieter in operation.


I assume you have nice parks, are tabs a big problem there as they are here?

As far as depth, how much do you think you lose with disc at 3-4 and 5?
I have not seem much depth loss with higher disc myself, but even with hours of experimentation I haven't tried every combination possible of disc, thresh, sense and tone type.

I can tell you I am not really all that worried about it, though...especially after I found this thing.
I guess I should start a new thread and ask these questions but as long as I have your attention and the OP's question was answered....

F70, F75 big DD coil, settings were thresh 9, sense 99, disc 4, DE, 1F tones.

A bit jumpy with these high settings, but over targets it settled down and gave me good audio and decent screen info from several directions.
This target showed up and it was also a bit jumpy with numbers from 21 up to about 31 but it kept flashing the numbers 23-26 more often then not.
Now you know that at the very limit of detection these units pretty much go blank on the screen and I have seen this happen a few times on a couple of really deep targets.
Audio still there, blank screen.
I didn't think anything much of this signal at the time until I hit the pinpoint button and saw the depth reading.
The screen jumped between 10 and 14 with flashes to 15.
This one I had to dig just to see if anything was really down there...and there was.
I measured the hole and at the bottom laying every bit of 15" was a target that came in at 23-25 when I passed my coil over it out of the hole so not only did I get screen info on this thing for the most part it was pretty accurate.
It was a thumb ringer off of a bicycle bell.
I have no idea what this thing was doing in a big grassy area in this park and what it was doing so deep, but there it was.
To date the deepest target I have ever attempted to dig so far because most of my deepest coin targets generally run from the 6-8" area, even the old ones.

I will play around with the disc with lower sense and thresh and try to see if those few numbers in lower disc do matter but for the depth I need to hit for me probably not.
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Re: F75 ltd notch

Post by Fusion » Sun May 31, 2015 10:36 pm

Quote:"I assume you have nice parks, are tabs a big problem there as they are here?"
Yes we have parks, and doubtless many of then are very old, and many will be created upon cultivated land with many many centuries of history. Unfortunately they are almost all no-go zones, either due to existing legislation forbidding damaging/disturbing the ground, or due to laws introduced in the 1970's banning detectors, when the detecting scene took off here. I've also heard of detecting and digging being permitted, but all finds are the property of the Local Council/administrative body etc, so little point doing it.
As for tabs, well there's sure to be a lot of them, but there's also 9 different cupro-nickel coins fall into that general 'disc range', make what you like of that. And milled silver coins are scarcer than in the US, as (due to WW1 / WW2 costs) they were withdrawn/replaced much earlier. Most would've been removed from circulation by the 1960's.

Re. the disc settings and gaining depth, here's some measurements I made on the disc setting 'hole':
http://www.metaldetectingforum.co.uk/vi ... 32&t=49363

This is an airtest, so how it applies to in-ground targets is a bit undefined. And upping the sensitivity may fill in the 'hole' a bit. Whether this behaviour exists on the new DST machines, or even the latest non-DST ones, I don't know. And it's only for DE mode, not JE.

Finding the deep targets is as much about user skill and experience as it is the machine settings.
I assume those 'hunted-out' US parks must cause you to learn a few new tricks.
And that bell is just one of those odd targets that sank really fast, sink rate is one of those un-fathomable things.
:(

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Re: F75 ltd notch

Post by digger27 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:43 pm

Thank you for that interesting information.
No hunting parks?
I would cry, that's where I spend most of my time and find all kinds of great targets including relics, coins old and new and lots of jewelry.
I can see why field hunting is so popular there.
We consider a park old if it is over 50, that is nothing compared to your history that goes back thousands of years.
Once I hit the lottery my Anglophile wife and I will come over for a visit.
She will hit the shops and tourist sites, I will sign up for one of those field hunting tours.
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Re: F75 ltd notch

Post by littleboot » Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:26 pm

Notch IS an America only thing.
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Re: F75 ltd notch

Post by chesters4 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:18 pm

In one of my permissions its been used for decades for festivals and its literally full of ring pulls (several under the coil at once!) Covering most of the field .
I know notching isnt a good idea as many items share ring pulls general ID are but when the ground is like iron you like to take a rest from digging up the poxy things lol.
I tried notching the things out but its not successful the range is to big depending on where the beaver tail is and the angles the thing is in the hole.
I reset it after an hour giving up with notching BUT i did find using 4 tone you can see the difference between old round £ coins and ring pulls 90% of the time if you listen and look at the screen .
If the signal is high then lower and the numbers go from zinc to ring pull its a ring pull but if the signal goes lower then high with the numbers going from ring pull to zinc its a quid or bottle cap the numbers dont settle on either its the direction that gives it away.
Llast year i found well over 300 £ coins using this method if i used 3 tones i would have died from exhaustion digging ringpulls lol

There is another strange feature with the f75 its the only machine i have that sees gold other than rings as foil the rest see it as iron in the main giving nasty new rotted penny signals.

So if you dig foil your chances of gold rise in an iron littered site with the rest you go home with a bag of iron!

Generally if your finding crusty pennies your missing little but you find lots of iron

Ofcourse once i remove all the quids and all the high tones and low tones i have the unenviable chore of digging up millions of ring pulls and anything sharing the same place on the scale ,you dont win you just drag out the inevitable a bit longer and suffer!

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Re: F75 ltd notch

Post by Fusion » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:51 pm

The F75 has the ability to notch IN a selected range, IF the 'Disc' setting has removed it. So for example the Yanks could Disc out everything but their milled silver coins, then Notch back in '5c Nickels' . This concept could be handy if you were trying to pick out JUST £1 coins ..... except it doesn't work. Annoyingly, bad design by Fisher means you can't completely Disc out everything up to 99, then Notch in whatever specific target ID you're after ( eg. just a £1 coin, or just a 5c/nickel ).

The best solution I could come up with for £1 coin hunting ( other than using the TID display) is : select 4-tone mode, set disc to just below the Pound ID, then use tone ID to distinguish them. 1p & 2p coins will give the 4th-tone, so you can ignore them. It's a moderately wide 3rd-tone band, so you can expect other 'nearby' unwanted rubbish, like aluminium bottle-tops; and pre-decimal bronze penny/halfpenny and decimal half pence will also be found of course.

(this also work OK on the Fisher F2: set disc so that the top three bars are the only ones detected. Then dig the 3rd-tone signals, ignore the 4th-tone ones.)
:(

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