Equinox Iron Bias?

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Equinox Iron Bias?

Post by Bargeman » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:12 pm

Why have Minelab set up Iron Bias to only work in Multi frequency mode, and not any of the single modes?

The Iron Bias Setting provides some control over the Target ID response. A lower Iron Bias setting will allow the natural response to dominate which means that the target is more likely to be classified as a non-ferrous target. A higher setting will increase the likelihood that the target is classified as iron.
The Iron Bias setting has a range from 0 to 9.
Iron Bias is only available when the operating frequency is Multi.


I hadn't noticed this in the manual, until I read the review in Treasure Hunting magazine today.



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Re: Equinox Iron Bias?

Post by Ladybird66 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:56 pm

I had noticed that in the Manual. Didn’t think much of it at the time because I use pre-set programs which are multi frequency. I now adjust Iron Bias in the pre-set.
Now you mention it, it does seem a bit odd. So, correct me if I’m wrong, that means if you want to set up your own program you can’t use the Iron Bias.
That would be a pain because it certainly makes a big difference.

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Re: Equinox Iron Bias?

Post by fred » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:52 pm

Ladybird66 wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:56 pm
I had noticed that in the Manual. Didn’t think much of it at the time because I use pre-set programs which are multi frequency. I now adjust Iron Bias in the pre-set.
Now you mention it, it does seem a bit odd. So, correct me if I’m wrong, that means if you want to set up your own program you can’t use the Iron Bias.
That would be a pain because it certainly makes a big difference.
I use multifrequency all the time too so I hadn't noticed the Iron Bias thing either. I think that there is a logic there in that in single frequencies the dicrimination is done by adjusting your Accept /Reject and setting the Tone Break to make the appropriate sound. Clearly that can't work on multifrequency as you have lots of single frequencies so the Iron Bias is used in addition to those settings.

I'm not sure how much option you have to write your own programs anyway with the Nox, all that you can really do is adjust the available modes and then save one.

I played around with Field 2 on Sunday and Today. Didn't really notice very much difference except some signals were a little sharper than the other in both programmes. I also played with Gold 1 today which really did my head in. I think that I may forgo the pleasure of nugget sniping! :D

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Re: Equinox Iron Bias?

Post by Ladybird66 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:15 pm

I have wondered about that Fred. I’ve seen mention of some using (no reflection on you) Fred Bloggs’s program and thought, fleetingly, wonder how you set that up.
Haven’t delved into it though as I’m finding the pre-sets pretty good. Especially now I’m learning how to change some of the settings.
The Iron Bias has made a big difference. Last outing I still dug deep and only got crud but better crud :D Only dug 1 small bit of iron. Things are looking up ::g

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Re: Equinox Iron Bias?

Post by fred » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:41 pm

Ladybird66 wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:15 pm
I have wondered about that Fred. I’ve seen mention of some using (no reflection on you) Fred Bloggs’s program and thought, fleetingly, wonder how you set that up.
Haven’t delved into it though as I’m finding the pre-sets pretty good. Especially now I’m learning how to change some of the settings.
The Iron Bias has made a big difference. Last outing I still dug deep and only got crud but better crud :D Only dug 1 small bit of iron. Things are looking up ::g
It does take a while to get used to it, especially if you are learning on your own.

I now have two mates with Equinoxes (and several more prevaricating :D ) and after a few demonstrations and pointers the buggers are finding nearly as much as me. What we've really done is knock about two months off of the learning curve so all they need to do now is practice. ::g I presume that you are getting the smaller stuff like buttons and buckles OK? ::g

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Re: Equinox Iron Bias?

Post by Ladybird66 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:09 am

The little bit of iron was, I think, a small nut with a a ball of rust around it. It gave a consistent high signal even when I switched to 10 kh.
It was so hot I tried to keep in the shade of the trees and remembered an old scrap heap I’d found a couple of years ago in the corner of the field I wanted to detect. It’s now planted with maize about a foot high. The scrap has been spread across a wide area. No mercy by the plough. I did report it to the owner in case the field was going to be used for grazing. There was a lot of broken glass as well as metal. Hard work swinging between the rows, trying not to trample or break them. Lots of iron and quite a lot of brass. Got a lovely trunk lock, very decorative and all sorts of other bits, mostly broken. So was I by the time I got back.
Not a total waste though. All very good practice. Biggest problem is remembering everything. Got into a right old pickle a couple of times.
Intending to tackle the beach either tomorrow or Thursday. Another new experience B-)

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Re: Equinox Iron Bias?

Post by Gaz » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:13 am

I'm happy to be corrected but I think it's because of the unique way the software analysis works with multi frequency.
As we know, the Equinox has a great ability of giving very stable ID numbers even with targets at depth.
I've dug plenty of deep targets that when on the surface give the same ID number.
This is because the Equinox uses 2 different pieces of information that can only be acquired by analysing all of its frequencies on a target. (Which gives the stable ID numbers).

Single frequency detectors can only analyse 1 of these "special" pieces of information which is why as certain targets get deeper, they are more likely to be analysed as iron.

This would typically be something like a small hammered with a low ID number close to the iron range which as it gets deeper merges into the iron range.

The Iron Bias setting has more information to work with in multi frequency.

Does that help a little?....... ::g
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Re: Equinox Iron Bias?

Post by Ladybird66 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:31 pm

So why do the pre-set programs register so much deep iron as something worth digging.
Without the iron bias being introduced (600) or increased (800) you’d be digging for England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales.
From what you just said, by using the iron bias we could be loosing out on hammered coins registering as iron. We are in effect telling the machine to ignore them !

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Re: Equinox Iron Bias?

Post by Gaz » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:03 pm

......it's a tough one alright.
Rather than programmes, Minelab went more for 4 Modes.
I think most users and testers have agreed that Minelab set the iron bias preset too low in some modes.
It's a trade off really.
The iron bias works similar to the silencer on XP machines.
Larger iron can overload so as you pass a coil over it, the machine will try it's best to either ignore or give a low tone but as you finish the sweep, it will give you a good signal as the overload diminishes. (Falsing)
One good way to check is to sweep the target at right angles.
The iron bias as you know helps remove the good signal at the end but reduces your depth and hinders separation.
So it's a trade off really.
There are some really good YouTube videos of people testing the iron bias settings on targets.
I keep mine quite low (no higher than 3) to help with larger nails but larger iron will come through.

One great way to check for large iron is a trick from Gordon Heritage.
Large iron will tend most of the time to give ID's of 14-17....ish.
If it sounds a little iffy.....flick it into 10khz and check the target again.
If the numbers stay giving you 14-17, it's a good target. If the numbers numbers jump into the mid to high 20's......iron.
Works a treat!.

::g
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Re: Equinox Iron Bias?

Post by fred » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:26 pm

Ladybird66 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:31 pm
So why do the pre-set programs register so much deep iron as something worth digging.
Without the iron bias being introduced (600) or increased (800) you’d be digging for England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales.
From what you just said, by using the iron bias we could be loosing out on hammered coins registering as iron. We are in effect telling the machine to ignore them !
I've said before that I don't rate the preset modes, however, they do form the basis of good programmes. You need to modify them by adjusting the Iron Bias and Response Speed (plus anything else you fancy) to suit your specific needs. I presume that they were written for markets other than the UK. ::g

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Re: Equinox Iron Bias?

Post by Bargeman » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:45 pm

I understand that the iron bias, was the last thing added to the Nox, and I guess came from feedback from the beta testers? As much as I like the Nox, and I like it a lot, I do wonder if Minelab are getting the wrong people to test there machines, because there are things that should have been picked up and adjusted while being tested, things like the build quality issues, that seem to have gone by the way.
My Nox has a couple of small issues that I would like put right when Minelab get on top of the whole supply fiasco, just little things, but they need sorting before the warranty runs out. ::g
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Re: Equinox Iron Bias?

Post by Ladybird66 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:27 pm

I was in mid sentence and suddenly realised something very odd. The manual says Iron Bias can only be used in multi frequency. If you can’t set up your own individual programs and can only make adjustments through Pre-Set which are all multi frequency why mention it at all ?
Does that mean you can set up your own programs or have I misunderstood, again.

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Re: Equinox Iron Bias?

Post by fred » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:21 am

Ladybird66 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:27 pm
I was in mid sentence and suddenly realised something very odd. The manual says Iron Bias can only be used in multi frequency. If you can’t set up your own individual programs and can only make adjustments through Pre-Set which are all multi frequency why mention it at all ?
Does that mean you can set up your own programs or have I misunderstood, again.
On the 800 you can save a User Profile, which is in effect a programme based upon the one of the Modes. I don't think that the 600 has this facility.

You still need to know about Iron Bias because each of the preset modes can be changed using the settings menu and other control buttons, including frequency, and the changed modes. Some elements of these changes, which Minelab calls a Search Profile, are saved when the machine is turned off. When you turn the machine on again at a new location you might needs to adjust youŕ settings, including the Iron Bias, for you new site conditions.

If you simply want to restore a single mode to its original settings then use the Search Profile Reset. If you want to restore all the modes at once then do a Factory Settings Reset.

PS I probably need to do a factory reset myself. After months of constant fiddling with the controls lord knows what some of the settings are on! :D

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Re: Equinox Iron Bias?

Post by Gaz » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:08 am

......in my mind, they've made it very powerful and very simple.
The only 2 settings you need to adjust really is the recovery speed and the iron bias.
All the rest only change how you like to hunt.
I hunt in all metal and turn the iron volume down to 1.
This way I can determine iron targets but suss out how busy the ground is to adjust my recovery speed. ::g
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Re: Equinox Iron Bias?

Post by Ladybird66 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:56 am

I think it’s the way it seems to be a ‘tag on’ adjustment that could cause confusion.
Now if they’d said ‘cannot be adjusted when using Single frequency’ it would have been more clear.
It’s a case again of ‘you say tomatoe and I say tomatoe’ (old song for the younger set)

As Fred says, after so much fiddling with the settings, I’ve got no idea what’s what any more. Maybe now I understand things a bit better, it’s time for a factory re-set. And we can start all over again (another old song)
Set up and shut up ! And stop thinking so much :D

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Re: Equinox Iron Bias?

Post by SuperRed » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:01 am

Despite the fact that I have been unable to use my 800 for more than an hour due to an imposed 'confinement to barracks', it has allowed me a little time to play around with the modes and settings AND read the manual.

The current threads on the Nox have been really interesting, and it occurs to me that terminology plays a part. For example, testers have been using the word 'programmes', when perhaps 'so and so's setup' would better describe it. Semantics, yes, but being given set programmes that can be changed is a 'setup'. I am personally very happy with the way the Nox is so user-friendly straight out of the box and even in the hands of a complete novice it will find things. Getting the best performance and 'knowing' the machine to 'Fred standard' obviously takes time and trial and error. My 400i came with set programmes within modes, which were great for learning the machine, but I very quickly customised a setup which works for me and pretty much stick with it saved in 'custom' (other than tweaking when conditions dictate).

Interestingly, the manual actually mentions coins on edge:

Field 2 suits locations with high target and trash
densities. It will better detect small hammered
coins on their edge or at greater depth.


I am making no particular point here, other than it doesn't state the same in Field 1. Different Modes are preset to overcome different conditions. Reading the manual thoroughly and applying it to your own tests in the field will surely provide better outcomes?!
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Re: Equinox Iron Bias?

Post by Gaz » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:27 am

Ladybird66 wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:56 am
I think it’s the way it seems to be a ‘tag on’ adjustment that could cause confusion.
Now if they’d said ‘cannot be adjusted when using Single frequency’ it would have been more clear.
It’s a case again of ‘you say tomatoe and I say tomatoe’ (old song for the younger set)

As Fred says, after so much fiddling with the settings, I’ve got no idea what’s what any more. Maybe now I understand things a bit better, it’s time for a factory re-set. And we can start all over again (another old song)
Set up and shut up ! And stop thinking so much :D
......you won't go far wrong with leaving iron bias at 3 and just adjusting your recovery speed where necessary. ::g
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Re: Equinox Iron Bias?

Post by Ladybird66 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:26 pm

I think it’s down to trail and error but now I’ve played around with the settings and know what they do I am happy that Field 2 with Iron Bias at 3 and recovery at 2/3 plus All Metal and Auto Ground balance will suit all my needs inland.
Fred thought, correctly, you cannot save a set-up on the 600 but not a problem. If I’m not in a field I’m on the beach (yet to be explored) and that is a different Pre-Set.
According to what I’ve read (?) The settings in each program should be saved when I switch off.
Most of the other adjustments are personal preferences and don’t affect how well the NOX performs.

If you’ve got perfect conditions as Super Red said, it is, or can be, a switch on and go machine. Which is nice to start off with but as I found out very quickly over here there’s no such thing as perfect conditions so it’s been valuable learning what you can do to maximise the performance of the machine to suit the conditions.
As Fred said, it has been more difficult learning on my own but the help and discussion here has helped no end. Thanks to everyone ::g

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