A little help Please with my AT Max

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Hawkeyes
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A little help Please with my AT Max

Post by Hawkeyes » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:04 am

I am running the new AT Max Detector and getting very good results so far with plenty of finds good and bad, but have come across an annoying problem that has got me at it on several occasions.
The land has had for many years and still has horses on it which probably ads to the ground being mineralised.
Now to give you the full picture the ground is very mineralised so much so it is brain frying to use all metal mode although I can distinguish targets it is just a bit frustrating but with a bit of tinkering the discrimination modes all work well with custom and zero being most favoured usually with discrimination set at 30, full sensitivity and threshold at +1.
After digging a target and before re filling the hole I like to double check the spoil and the hole just in case of another target, on swinging the coil over the hole I’m getting a solid not to be ignored signal but no matter how deep I go the signal is still sounding and showing maximum depth and between 60s and 90s so then I start widening the hole but the signal is still sounding loud and strong its not until I can get the coil short swinging in the bottom of the hole that it changes to a none dig able signal or goes away, this happens in all modes. :-/

Now being relatively new to detecting I have nothing to judge this problem with so my questions are, is it the mineralised ground making this happen or is this an AT Max problem, some thoughts please??


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Re: A little help Please with my AT Max

Post by redwulf500 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:47 am

Hi I don't have a at max but some detectors pick up the hole itself...

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Re: A little help Please with my AT Max

Post by Hawkeyes » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:30 pm

redwulf500 wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:47 am
Hi I don't have a at max but some detectors pick up the hole itself...
Thanks for that simple bit of info, now I can do a few experiments to see the size of hole it starts picking up on but I must say I'm surprised that a detector that's priced over £800.00 has this issue and also concerned as to how sensitive it may be over naturally rough ground or a newly ploughed field with all its troughs and crevices also surprised that more people haven't answered my call for help if its a common issue with some detectors, but thanks again for your help redwolf500.
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Re: A little help Please with my AT Max

Post by Easylife » Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:44 am

Hi Hawkeyes, I have never used a Garrett, but all VLF detectors work on the same principles. Your ground may possibly be iron infested and not necessarily over mineralised. With a reasonable discrimination level set you should not really hear iron at all, unless very large.

Your machine is running unstable (not set correctly) and creating “phantom targets”, this problem will occur if your ground balance is not set correctly and will be made worse if the sensitivity level is set too high, typically resulting in ground noise being detected as phantom targets. So basically – if you ground balance your detector correctly on each use as per instruction manual and also lower sensitivity by a few numbers you should then have a very stable and smooth running machine.
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Re: A little help Please with my AT Max

Post by Hawkeyes » Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:53 am

Thanks Easylife for your help and although I always ground balance regularly even on the same field just in case the ground has changed a bit, but maybe I need to manually ground balance and I will play with this and yes the ground is heavily ironized but in discrimination modes the unit runs relatively clean with the odd chip and grunt, targets come up clear as a bell the main issue is this solid target hit I'm getting over an empty hole which can get you thinking there is another target but how ever deep and wide the pin pointer says otherwise its a clean hole ?
Is this normal for a Garrett ??
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Re: A little help Please with my AT Max

Post by Mega B » Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:42 am

Why are you running the sensitivity so high ?? that can usually make a detector run very erratic !!

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Re: A little help Please with my AT Max

Post by Koala » Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:30 pm

Are you sure you've ground balanced it properly !

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Re: A little help Please with my AT Max

Post by Hawkeyes » Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:44 pm

Mega B wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:42 am
Why are you running the sensitivity so high ?? that can usually make a detector run very erratic !!
Hi Mega B thanks for taking an interest, in answer to your question.
Most of the targets I'm finding are showing at full depth, on digging the majority are siting just above the subsoil which is lighter in colour, considerably harder and full of flints at a depth of 12 to 14 inches way deeper than I expected to be digging so I am running the sensitivity high as I don't want to miss the deeper targets, obviously I have tried dropping it back a couple of notches which obviously quietens things down a bit but at the expense of missing the high level of deep targets on this ground.
I do have a theory as to why the majority of finds are sitting at this deep level about 10 years ago all the meadows where ploughed for the first time in the known history of the land and was the only time, this I think turned items that lay relatively shallow to a deeper level, or am I over thinking it??
Oh and its not really running erratic on discrimination modes its relatively good considering the heavy ionization of the soil its just this very dig able hit I'm getting over an empty hole that has me baffled??
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Re: A little help Please with my AT Max

Post by Hawkeyes » Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:12 pm

Koala wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:30 pm
Are you sure you've ground balanced it properly !
Hi Koala, thanks for taking an interest in my problem.
The AT Max has auto and manual ground balance and as far as I can tell I'm doing what it says on the tin!!
For auto, pumping the coil up and down about 2 to 8 inches parallel to the ground over a clean target free spot holding the ground balance button down until the detector finds the quietest spot.
For manual, the same action as above but adjusting the + or - ground balance until the quietest spot is found.
I have now used both ways of balancing and the numbers are relatively the same within 1 or 2 digits of each other.
Am I doing it correctly if not please advise????
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Re: A little help Please with my AT Max

Post by Koala » Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:33 pm

Are you doing it correctly. Yes


I am at a loss to explain your problem

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Re: A little help Please with my AT Max

Post by Easylife » Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:54 pm

Ok, I think I understand your issue better now. So you knowingly chose to run your detector unstable and flat out for maximum depth and are then complaining that it is unstable. This is why manufacturers include pre-set programs which are stable, though slightly less deep. You can often tweak those program settings a bit further to optimize for your particular site conditions. But you can't have it both ways- Max depth and max stability, that's just how the different parameters work,(or work against each other), you need to find a compromise between the two. As already suggested if ground balanced correctly then lowering sensitivity will smooth things out, and free you of the phantoms but that is your own choice. Nothing more to say! Good luck. ;)
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Re: A little help Please with my AT Max

Post by Hawkeyes » Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:20 am

Thanks easylife, I understand totally what you are saying its just that I'm relatively new to detecting and like to understand all that is going on and why, that way eventually I should be able to address the issues myself or learn to live with them as not a problem or a fault.
Next time out I will be experimenting with cutting back on the sensitivity if only to see if it stops faulsing over a clean hole as I can live with it so long as I understand it.
Thanks again for your help. ::g
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Re: A little help Please with my AT Max

Post by chip » Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:22 pm

I had this problem with every hole I dug today, retrieve find, double check the hole only to get a banging signal that made me dig down even more incase of a second target. Resulting in two foot deep holes still getting a banging signal but no target to be found.

I got so sick of it, so I dug a hole in an area where I had no signal at all before digging, scanned the hole to get, you guessed it a banging signal. Which told me my metal detector was also a hole detector and a very good one at that.
So from Then on I still checked my hole after but did not bother to dig further. Shame as who knows what I might have left in the holes once digging the multitude of .22 bullets and shottie primers I dug today.

I also spotted another max user in the field and explained my predicament and asked him if he had the same problem, he said “no, never”.
So in front of him I dug a hole again where I proved before hand there was no signal, waved my detector over it and he could hear the high tones ringing out from my headphones from where he was standing six foot away. He said “you should send that back under guarantee” I then asked him if he minded running his detector over the empty hole for my benefit which he did, beep beep. “Sugar” he said (or words to that effect) “same problem as you”.

So I thanked him and off I walked feeling slightly better that it was not just a problem with my unit at the expense of sowing a seed of doubt in the mind of another at max user.

Apart from that I did not find owt today that did not go in the scrap bin but apparently someone else found a sceat (there’s always one).
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Re: A little help Please with my AT Max

Post by Rhumours » Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:45 pm

I've got a garret at pro .... think yours is the next one on from mine or next two on. Anyway similar issue on day one of use. Two ....very big holes and nothing to show for it .... back in doors and back to the books/intenet/utube. There were various things I was doing wrong and on mine you have standard mode and pro. Tones on standard are basic ding dong grunt with no tone changes. Pro ... gets slightly and it is very slightly louder the closer you get. So first problems .... realising I was not very good at pinpointing the object in the ground. So I dug my hole ..... on standard cause ime a newb. .... dig ... still in hole ... dig .... still in hole. But when it got to a foot I suspected I was mucking up. Now I have it in pro and when I locate something I move it slow to hear the change. When I'm happy where it is exactly I swing quick because depth seems much more accurate when I do. That solved that problem ... plugs were bang on target.

Then I had fluttering chirping when doing nothing. Interference was blamed and a few other things but the cause was the coil plug was slightly loose. As it came in doors it all expanded ... cane loose. Back outside in cold ... was tight but not done up enough. Solved. No more chirping.

So I'm no longer digging big holes of air. I'm no longer getting false signals. And then ..... holes but no stuff. Banging signal like a coin but registering 28 to 84 clear as a bell but with a tiny grunt like a blip on the end. Size of a coin. Size and sound of a button. But nothing but a great looking hole .. no stuff. ... that was until I discovered this .....
2018-03-25 19.28.45.jpg
That .... is old single braided electric fence string .... after its been ploughed and left in the ground for 19 years or more. It gives an amazing signal .... good luck finding it in clay soils though. Because it vanishes. It's in an out of the ruddy hole. The propointer eventually finds it but mud sticks to it. I have a 2 meter square bit of ground with it in. And it hardly rusts. I find about 8 bits of that a day but it takes ages to find it.

With the above problems and ground balancing it's could explain or at least give an option for these things to be the problem. Zeroing was my last one and I've sorted that now. Plus too slow a swing on mine with the wire above says it's 25+ down. So you think coin or button. Can't not dig it. Slowly pitting the plug earth back in slicing towards the roots I suddenly suss. ... horrible stuff. Hope that's helps give you some ideas.
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Re: A little help Please with my AT Max

Post by chip » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:21 pm

Hi rhumours, thanks for your reply. I have an at pro too and have had the same falsing on occasion but on the whole had confidence in it. The max was defiantly being fooled by empty holes as I also got someone passing with an etrac or safari to have a swing over one of my deep holes giving me a strong signal with numbers in the high 90s. He had a swing and shook his head saying he was getting nothing, no signal at all.
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Re: A little help Please with my AT Max

Post by chip » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:46 pm

The AT max worked impeccably today, no falsing. It beeped, I dug and found the target, rescanned holes and not so much as a squeak. Which was great as it gave me confidence that if it beeped there was definitely still something there and I dug and dug and found some deep targets (all deep iron asit goes) that I would have given up on if my confidence was not there. But just knowing it was working well made for an enjoyable day.
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Re: A little help Please with my AT Max

Post by Hawkeyes » Wed May 02, 2018 12:40 am

Just come back to an old post and found I was not alone with the sweet high 80 to 90 tone over an empty hole.
Well I've worked with this ever since I first posted it and have come to some conclusions!!!

No amount of fiddling with the settings has improved things that is when I'm having the problem,
yes you can make it a little quieter at the expense of considerably lowering the detectors capability to find targets but you can't eliminate it.

I have found it doesn't do it on all ground some places its fine and you can check your hole with no false signals so it is to do with the elements of ground make up so one would think correct and careful ground balancing would sort it but it doesn't also very wet ground makes it more susceptible.

And finally its at its worst in all metal mode giving a clonking dig able signal right over the center of the hole that gets you at it at the beginning of a session and then you wise up !!

It doesn't do it with a small NEL Snake coil on but with the Big NEL coil on its about the same as the stock coil for false signals over an empty hole.

My conclusion is I have learnt to live with it and don't get fooled by it anymore well not very often?

As a matter of interest to the AT MAX users try out a Big NEL coil on your Max it finds targets you have walked over with the stock coil so much so its like new ground.

Good hunting.
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Re: A little help Please with my AT Max

Post by DingDong » Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:38 am

Hawkeye just a thought, I have this feeling it is related to the return time for the signal, your are scanning about 2" above the surface then cross the threshold of a deep hole so the signal return time is increased and vice versa as you cross the opposite edge.

Can you try this and say what happens

ON clean patch.

A) dig a 3" deep hole same diameter that you normally dig
B) test it, if no signal dig 3" more and test again
C) repeat until fault happens. (stop before Australia though)

If after a number of deepens it beeps either my theory is correct or you are getting closer to a mineralised ground patch as you go deeper.

Only being doing this a few weeks so ignore my thoughts if you think not worth it.

dingdong

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