Potsherds - anyone? More images

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RossDG
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Potsherds - anyone? More images

Post by RossDG » Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:38 pm

Whilst detecting on a new permission, which has a known Medieval farmstead/settlement, I have noticed a lot of potsherds. Theye are virtually all coarse red with a grey core with shell and stoney inclusions, except the small piece on the right of the picture which is much thinner and red outer, grey inner. I'm used to finding Roman greyware and Samian and late medieval glazed etc; can anyone give me an idea of the age of this stuff?

Many thanks and apologies for lack of scale, but each piece is approx 2cm x 1cm. Also they are a darker red, just don't have the tools available to get a decent image.

Thanks all.
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Last edited by RossDG on Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Potsherds - anyone?

Post by Oxgirl36 » Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:18 pm

They look interesting ::g

P.S. I moved your post to the pottery section ::g
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Re: Potsherds - anyone?

Post by StevenJohn » Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:01 pm

Hi Ross

This looks like a type of shelly-tempered ware. Shell inclusions can be found in pottery dating right back from the Bronze Age through the later Medieval. The bright red outer colour is of course a result of the firing process and at a fairly high temperature, which leads me towards a Roman or Medieval date? Two of the sherds have clear profiles. Are you able to put a pic up showing a side profile. Rgds, Steven

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Re: Potsherds - anyone?

Post by RossDG » Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:15 pm

StevenJohn wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:01 pm
Hi Ross

This looks like a type of shelly-tempered ware. Shell inclusions can be found in pottery dating right back from the Bronze Age through the later Medieval. The bright red outer colour is of course a result of the firing process and at a fairly high temperature, which leads me towards a Roman or Medieval date? Two of the sherds have clear profiles. Are you able to put a pic up showing a side profile. Rgds, Steven
Many thanks Steven. I'll post the profile pics tomorrow. Both are rims I think, one rounded the other more of a square, angled profile. Found in Dorset by the way. Medieval settlement one side of a river, roman villa on the other side.
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Re: Potsherds - anyone?

Post by Wigeon » Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:36 am

I have quite a lot of the shelly tempered ware from a site that is producing 3rd/4th Century Roman artefacts but nothing (except one tiny piece of samian) earlier nor later yet. My shelly ware sherds are from storage type pots.
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Re: Potsherds - anyone? More images

Post by RossDG » Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:02 pm

Here are profile images of the two rimsherds, also a couple of drawings as it is quite difficult to photograph the profiles.
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Re: Potsherds - anyone? More images

Post by amphora » Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:51 pm

First image. To me it look like bronze age pottery, or iron age at most.
The thinning of the pottery looks to rough for roman.

Need to ask. How hard is the pottery? Can you scrape some of with your nails very easy?
Good luck hunting.
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Re: Potsherds - anyone? More images

Post by RossDG » Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:59 pm

amphora wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:51 pm
First image. To me it look like bronze age pottery, or iron age at most.
The thinning of the pottery looks to rough for roman.

Need to ask. How hard is the pottery? Can you scrape some of with your nails very easy?
Hi,

No too hard to scrape with a finger nail. I agree it is not exactly elegant and in the hand there are some irregular drag marks in the outer surface, I would say from a finger or somesuch. There are burial mounds at the top of the ridge above the field, maybe 300m away.
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Re: Potsherds - anyone? More images

Post by Ladybird66 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 4:54 pm

I have several pieces similar and they were described (by PAS) as locally made and dated 13th/14th cent.

Locally made ! My opinion is the locals were using the same clay, from the same source for generations. The only thing that changed was design and methods of firing.

Anyway, it’s old :D

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Re: Potsherds - anyone? More images

Post by amphora » Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:07 pm

RossDG wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:59 pm
No too hard to scrape with a finger nail.

In that case you can rule out bronze age.

RossDG wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:59 pm
I agree it is not exactly elegant and in the hand there are some irregular drag marks in the outer surface, I would say from a finger or somesuch.

For your information. Even on iron- and bronze age pottery finger and drag marks can be found.

RossDG wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:59 pm
There are burial mounds at the top of the ridge above the field, maybe 300m away.

Which era or era's if i may ask out of curiousity?
In my country bronze- iron and roman- and early medieval ages are often found on the same settlement locations.

Ladybird66 wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 4:54 pm
My opinion is the locals were using the same clay, from the same source for generations. The only thing that changed was design and methods of firing.

I can not say your wrong. Even 18th ct. homemade pottery is often hard to distinguish from ancient pottery.
Still there can be much to recognize at the thinning of the pottery. And the way it is produced.

10-13th century Paffrath pottery could still be an option (=pingsdorf era). That also has such open structure. But i do not know how common Paffrath is overthere. And the thinning seems to rough for that.
Good luck hunting.
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Re: Potsherds - anyone? More images

Post by Oxgirl36 » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:32 am

Pottery is generally locally made with the exception of the fancy, high value stuff.

The pottery with high levels of inclusions certainly look early and from my area (near Oxford) I would consider them Roman. Same with the bottom centre piece that looks like Samian from that picture. The pottery top right (white clay with a black slip) could be roman too.

The handle top left and the decorated pieces bottom right look medieval. However in my area they could be 14th to 17th century - I can (after getting expert help) now recognise the difference of my local pottery in the hand. But every area is different and so what I know about a very small pottery area may not apply to your region.

Bring them to the FLO. The one we had in Oxfordshire was brilliant :D
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Re: Potsherds - anyone? More images

Post by amphora » Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:27 pm

If you talk about the image with several (12) shards on it i follow you Oxgirl.
Oxgirl36 wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:32 am
The pottery with high levels of inclusions certainly look early and from my area (near Oxford) I would consider them Roman.

Looks like that but difficult to see if you do not have them in hand. For sure the inclusions are NOT roman.
And i have found post-ME pottery with such 'big' inclusions from home made pottery which also bakes like that (oxigen) on a simple wood fire in front of the hut.

Oxgirl36 wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:32 am
The pottery top right (white clay with a black slip) could be roman too.

The four blackes on the right could be painted roman pottery. Trier pottery.
BUT can also be medieval.
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Simple trick to distinguish which they are.
Throw it on a hard table (not to break it!) If it sounds with a high tone it almost for sure is ME (8-10th ct). If it sound with a low dull tone it is most likely roman. This because the ME ones are harder.
Good luck hunting.
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