A little help with my AT Max please

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Hawkeyes
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A little help with my AT Max please

Post by Hawkeyes » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:25 pm

I am running the new AT Max Detector and getting very good results so far with plenty of finds good and bad, but have come across an annoying problem that has got me at it on several occasions.
The land has had for many years and still has horses on it which probably ads to the ground being mineralised.
Now to give you the full picture the ground is very mineralised so much so it is brain frying to use all metal mode although I can distinguish targets it is just a bit frustrating but with a bit of tinkering the discrimination modes all work well with custom and zero being most favoured usually with discrimination set at 30, full sensitivity and threshold at +1.
After digging a target and before re filling the hole I like to double check the spoil and the hole just in case of another target, on swinging the coil over the hole I’m getting a solid not to be ignored signal but no matter how deep I go the signal is still sounding and showing maximum depth and between 60s and 90s so then I start widening the hole but the signal is still sounding loud and strong its not until I can get the coil short swinging in the bottom of the hole that it changes to a none dig able signal or goes away,
Now being relatively new to detecting I have nothing to judge this problem with so my questions are, is it the mineralised ground making this happen or is this looking like an AT Max issue ??


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Re: A little help with my AT Max please

Post by Euro Detector » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:37 pm

I've had this problem too when I was using the Garrett EuroAce. When you swing the detector over the hole, the difference in 'ground elevation' from the hole you just dug can actually cause a signal in itself. The deeper the hole, the more likely it is to sound off sometimes. If you own a pinpointer, it might be worth pinpointing the hole before you dig a deeper hole. You could also try to lower the sensitivity and see if that takes away the signal. ::g
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Re: A little help with my AT Max please

Post by Steve Dixon1968 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:46 am

What about getting someone else to check the hole after you?

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Re: A little help with my AT Max please

Post by Blockhead » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:05 pm

I have recently had the same issue with my AT Max, but only since I switched to the New Tornado coil. I'm going to play with the sensitivity and slow down my swing (advice from another forum) to try to compensate. It's really frustrating to get that beautiful high tone and you just keep digging, and digging, and digging.....

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Re: A little help with my AT Max please

Post by sweepstick47 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:05 am

Hawkeyes wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:25 pm
I am running the new AT Max Detector and getting very good results so far with plenty of finds good and bad, but have come across an annoying problem that has got me at it on several occasions.
The land has had for many years and still has horses on it which probably ads to the ground being mineralised.
Now to give you the full picture the ground is very mineralised so much so it is brain frying to use all metal mode although I can distinguish targets it is just a bit frustrating but with a bit of tinkering the discrimination modes all work well with custom and zero being most favoured usually with discrimination set at 30, full sensitivity and threshold at +1.
After digging a target and before re filling the hole I like to double check the spoil and the hole just in case of another target, on swinging the coil over the hole I’m getting a solid not to be ignored signal but no matter how deep I go the signal is still sounding and showing maximum depth and between 60s and 90s so then I start widening the hole but the signal is still sounding loud and strong its not until I can get the coil short swinging in the bottom of the hole that it changes to a none dig able signal or goes away,
Now being relatively new to detecting I have nothing to judge this problem with so my questions are, is it the mineralised ground making this happen or is this looking like an AT Max issue ??
Hello 'Hawkeyes', Firstly, I should say I'm not a current Garrett user but the following is common to virtually all VLF motion machines (in my opinion)! Just as others have pointed out, having the sensitivity turned-up to maximum will produce or amplify the problem when detecting over heavily mineralised ground. The same condition as you describe, can also be caused by swinging the search-coil over an 'empty' hole. This is due to the change in mineral density as the coil movement encounters the hole. You can prove this by digging a 'metal free 8 inch X 6" deep hole (in the same area) and passing the coil over it - it's not compulsory but will prove the point!!

High sensitivity settings also reduce the effectiveness of the discrimination setting as the increased level serves to 'force' a signal through the discrimination.
The sensitivity switch is probably the least understood control on metal detectors.

Sensitivity - less is very often more! ::g Good Luck- ss47
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Re: A little help with my AT Max please

Post by Easylife » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:55 am

As SS47 pretty much said, running any detector a bit hot will often give the same result as you describe. I've not used a Garrett but with some other brands I've noticed that in the very same situation the ghost target has noticeably soft edges and is just not sharp like a good target so maybe that may help. ;)
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Re: A little help with my AT Max please

Post by Hawkeyes » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:41 am

I have just noticed that there has been a few more comments on an old post that I made when I first got my AT Max and can see I am not alone with the issue of false signals over a dug hole.
Well now I have used the AT Max on different types of ground I feel I understand the machines idiosyncrasies better.
First the problem is very frustrating but I have been able to determine the main culprit and that seems to be ground related, it seems to be at its worst on meadow land that has a lot of animal contamination like well currently used horse fields and if there is a fair amount of iron it makes it worse but even in this type of environment the Max still surprises me with exceptionally small items being found at some depth.
It is at its worst in all metal mode but when it is playing up and I refuse to dig any deeper changing modes hasn’t eliminated it on one particular pasture which points to the ground quality.
Now I have been criticised for running it to hot and I do, but I find the best results that way also I keep my discrimination to the minimum and only add it to stop fatiguing my ears my preferred settings are custom mode, 26 iron discrimination, sensitivity full and volume up full on the detector and the headphones and at this I use my ears and the readouts to determine my targets and now I have trained myself to work this way I feel I defiantly don’t miss much at all, on top of this I do use the other modes to sometimes check a signal to help confirm my deductions before I dig but usually when a reasonable target is found the Max does seem to grab it with both hands.
My conclusion Is that the AT Max is a detector that if used in a way that you have impute in determining a signal you won’t miss much and run hot it is capable of picking up some very small bits at considerable depth, it loves copper and silver, I have found gold but surprisingly the numbers were in the 40s not the 80s in the ground and out, it was a half sovereign.
On the down side I feel for an all-terrain detector the control box and arm rest mountings to the shaft are pitiful and just like the AT Pro and Gold are going to snap off if not handled carefully.
I can’t say it’s the answer to a detectorists dream but it will find a lot and miss very little but you have to work with it not expect it to just work for you.
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Re: A little help with my AT Max please

Post by chip » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:41 am

Hi hawkeyes, I have not experienced the problem of falsing you have described but with my at pro on heavily mineralised soil I can often get rid of the chatter just by changing the frequency so maybe this may help with your problem. And when I have had to drop the sensitivity a couple of bars I find I am still digging targets at impressive depths. I have also just bought an at max and hope to get it out in the field on Sunday.
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Re: A little help with my AT Max please

Post by Hawkeyes » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:12 am

Hi chip, thanks for the input.
I always find the most stable frequency and ground balance before starting a sweep so not really the problem, as I have mentioned now I have used the Max extensively on different soil conditions I can honestly say I no longer treat it as a problem with the detector but more to do with the soil as it only really does it on one particular permission.
I have played with all the modes and settings and my favoured settings are as said in the last post however when required I do use others like if I'm on known ground and the finds expected are coins and virtually no artifacts I will use coin mode with 30-35 iron discrimination and it works beautifully and I don't dig to much trash.
Another way I sometimes work is to use my usual custom settings but if the hits are few and I've got an iffy signal I will flick on the iron disc first to see how strong the iron is around the target then also scan the spot in all metal mode, once you are used to your Max it can tell you a lot by doing this and save digging time or help you decide its worth digging it when perhaps you would have walked over it.
Like I've said before I don't miss much so good luck with your new Max and it will be interesting to see your findings ::g ::g
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Re: A little help with my AT Max please

Post by Dom » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:30 am

I don't own the same detector as you, but I have had the same problem. Particularly when it's wet. I initially got over it by lowering the threshold which I'm guessing is the same as sensitivity but now I just fill it in and then go over it. Seems to work.
Bit of a nuisance though.

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Re: A little help with my AT Max please

Post by Hawkeyes » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:42 am

Thanks for the input Dom, on the AT Max threshold and sensitivity are two completely different things threshold is used to set the background noise or hum sensitivity is what it says ::g
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Re: A little help with my AT Max please

Post by chip » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:27 am

The sensitivity is what is and the threshold is the level of white noise suppression that is applied, the greater the threshold the less suppression. The threshold only truly works with the max in all metal mode. But can be used in the descrim modes to help quiet down a chirpy machine by adding negative threshold.
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Re: A little help with my AT Max please

Post by chip » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:00 pm

Hawkeyes I saw in one of your above posts you were worried about your control box snapping off
Maybe this will interest you.

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Re: A little help with my AT Max please

Post by Hawkeyes » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:00 pm

Hi chip, thanks for the input, its very odd to me that Garrett hasn't addressed this as its now been a fault through several of there detectors ???
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Re: A little help with my AT Max please

Post by Rhumours » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:50 am

As a new metal detectorist and an AT Pro owner I'm learning constantly. I've had an issue exactly the same as yours but I'm going to put up a link which is worth a watch. It deals with the other issue I've had but seems quite common across garret.

I've had your issue every day since beginning to use it. I got it at Christmas and have been hitting utube hard. Listening to people's finds on headphones and trying to guess what they've found by the tones etc. Anyway this week day 1 .... dug two holes which became huge holes ... 2 foot by 2 foot by 2 foot. Eventually had to give up. Cracking signals in the 90s. Settings are ground ballance 83 .... sensitivity one stop from the top (like you I don't want to miss anything), on pro ... descrimination at 13. After I gave up and filled the hole's in the signal vanished. Now ... that was day 1. Day two I thought I've obviously got something wrong.

The issue was with.ground balancing my pro pointer to the hole. The detector wasn't at fault. But when I tried to search the hole with the pointer it said metal everywhere. But you can tell it's lying. Subtle difference is that is goes mad ... but doesn't quite ever reach solid tone. After watching Aquachiggers video showing how to ground the pointer to the hole it worked perfectly. And what I discovered was that my initial plug was far too deep. So shallower plugs .... and ground balancing the pointer solved that issue. And what I then found was that I was picking up cheap picture frame clips. They give an amazing signal but you cannot find the blessed things as they are 10mm by 4mm if that. It was even stuck with mud to the pointer and I couldn't see it for the.mud round it.

Second issue is the pro ... but it happens to most .... going mad and flipping out. It settles.down eventually but I did think it was going wrong. I'll post a good clip so work through possible solves. And finally ... I had the exact same problem as you yesterday ... I've dug a deep hoLe ... too deep to be where the pro is saying it is. It says 25cms. .. I've dug a foot and a half and 2 feet wide .... pointer says nothing there .... but I've found what looks like a modern collapsed chamber .... with a bin liner in it. There are big blocks in there with some sort of bin bags under it so God knows but somethings in there.

Link for garret flipping out with fixes - https://youtu.be/lgrdHQ5gJJ0

Link for balancing the pointer to the hole - https://youtu.be/JOHMxjAT1TI

This link from the garret instructor is for a different detector but shows how issues occur with terrain changes and mineralised soils. And how to overcome it. But also what to expect. https://youtu.be/ZK6DyG-mqLA

While these videos may not specifically solve your issue it may (like it did with me), help you to think of what it might be.
Garret AT Pro ~ Garret Carrot ~ Piranha 35 ~ rather nice wellies ~ registered NCMD member.

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