Straighten a silver hammered coin

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Chilgrove
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Straighten a silver hammered coin

Post by Chilgrove » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:03 pm

I cannot see a category for restoration so hope it's ok to post in this category. Yesterday I found this tiny hammered, my smallest hammered yet, using my trusty Deus. I am looking for hints about how best to straighten it. My more knowledgeable friends in the field say it's an Edward 1st halfpenny. Diameter is 14mm.
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Re: Straighten a silver hammered coin

Post by Chilgrove » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:06 pm

Photo of other side.
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Re: Straighten a silver hammered coin

Post by Allectus » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:08 pm

Edward I Bristol halfpenny. It might straighten cold, depends how acute/sharp the bend is?...can't really tell from that pic. ::g

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Re: Straighten a silver hammered coin

Post by Allectus » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:11 pm

Just seen the second pic. It needs annealing....Fire your blow-torch up! ::g


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Re: Straighten a silver hammered coin

Post by Chilgrove » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:18 pm

Thanks Allectus. Might try that although somewhat nervous. How can you tell it's Bristol mint?

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Re: Straighten a silver hammered coin

Post by Lowland » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:07 pm

Hi
Looks like a beautiful coin ::g
Good luck with the straightening :-SS
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Re: Straighten a silver hammered coin

Post by Resurgam » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:29 pm

Despite being bent, that coin looks to be in superb condition; well found and saved. ::g
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Re: Straighten a silver hammered coin

Post by Swany » Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:20 pm

A nice hammered, well done, PM sent.
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Re: Straighten a silver hammered coin

Post by Chilgrove » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:12 pm

Thanks for all replies.

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Re: Straighten a silver hammered coin

Post by TheMellowedMole » Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:14 pm

Well found and a nice coin it is,if you do decide to strighten it make sure to post up the photos of the result ::g

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Re: Straighten a silver hammered coin

Post by thefiggis » Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:55 pm

Yus indeedy, please do show the results.

I don't know what info/knowledge you have, but you may well have come across advice to use boiling water to heat up the coin. If so, ignore it - you might as well do it cold for all the good boiling water does to soften the metal.

Some coins I've straightened have come out without affecting he patina and others have gone an embarrassed-looking pink (I think that's the copper content making its way to the surface). But if that happens there are ways to repatinate.

Good luck ::g
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Re: Straighten a silver hammered coin

Post by Oxgirl36 » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:41 pm

After you’ve annealed it drop it in watered down bleach to darken it, then use a pencil rubber to bring out the high spots. Looks lovely and natural :D

P.S. the flame from a gas cooker is a bit safer than a blow torch =))
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Re: Straighten a silver hammered coin

Post by Chilgrove » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:08 pm

The debate about using hot water I find interesting. On previous occasions I have used hot water and so far have not had any issues. Of course what I do not know is how well I would have got on if I had not bothered using any hot water with those bent silver coins. I know the temperature is way below the annealing temperature of metal but I am not (yet) convinced that there are no advantages at all by using the hot water method and there is no possibility of melting the coin.

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Re: Straighten a silver hammered coin

Post by Ten pence! » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:24 pm

Chilgrove wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:08 pm
The debate about using hot water I find interesting. On previous occasions I have used hot water and so far have not had any issues. Of course what I do not know is how well I would have got on if I had not bothered using any hot water with those bent silver coins. I know the temperature is way below the annealing temperature of metal but I am not (yet) convinced that there are no advantages at all by using the hot water method and there is no possibility of melting the coin.
In short you got away with it! 100c is well below the temperature where the molecular structure of silver is affected.

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Re: Straighten a silver hammered coin

Post by Resurgam » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:25 pm

When my very first Elizabeth I hammy had a kink in it I just tried the Uri Geller technique in reverse and repeatedly warmed and squeezed/pressed the little lady between my thumb and knuckle of my index finger. Hey presto, flat as a fluke now. ::g
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Re: Straighten a silver hammered coin

Post by Digger Drew » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:50 am

I use the hot water method drop into boiling water for 30 seconds bring out straighten slightly and drop back into boiling water repeat process untill you get it how you want I did this recently with and eddy half penny that was completely folded in half
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Re: Straighten a silver hammered coin

Post by Chilgrove » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:58 am

I do agree 100 degrees C is nowhere near annealing temperature. Maybe we need a metallurgist to explain further. For example I wonder if there are still other changes taking place with the silver molecular structure even when heated to water boiling point. I am no expert but I do have a lot of experience working with various metals (but you know what they say about a little knowledge !) I know of several people in our hobby who only use the hot water method and it works for them. Perhaps we have all just been lucky so far. I have seen an online video of someone actually melting a silver hammered using a gas torch.

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Re: Straighten a silver hammered coin

Post by Chilgrove » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:00 am

A couple of points I have learned today. Early Edward i silver pennies and halfpennies should be relatively pure silver so ought to react well to most straightening procedures. The other point is that pure silver starts to anneal at 80 degrees C.

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Re: Straighten a silver hammered coin

Post by Me and my boy » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:42 am

Digger Drew wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:50 am
I use the hot water method drop into boiling water for 30 seconds bring out straighten slightly and drop back into boiling water repeat process untill you get it how you want I did this recently with and eddy half penny that was completely folded in half
I have no courage apart from leaving as is.
Some say hot water does not get them hot enough, others say it has to be heated almost cherry red! Even though I’ve watched numerous vids with excellent results both ways.
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Re: Straighten a silver hammered coin

Post by Ten pence! » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:14 pm

An awful lot of misinformation and myths on here about annealing silver! There is no way boiling water is going to make the slightest difference here, it's over 200c below the temperature where silver begins to soften to any degree, having checked some jewellery websites the lowest temperature mentioned for pure silver (alloyed silver has a higher annealing temp) is 480C, or a very pale pink colour, this is still well below the melting point, anyone who has straightened a bent coin with hot water might have been better advised to make a cuppa and just straighten the coin with their fingers! :))

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Re: Straighten a silver hammered coin

Post by Easylife » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:28 pm

I'd say it's all down to the metal's purity. I could feel one of mine bending between just two fingers whereas others do not so require annealing until a dull red so as not to take any chances of breakage. ::g
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Re: Straighten a silver hammered coin

Post by targets » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:48 pm

i think it will crack as it has some hard edges on the bend

boiling water is tosh as not hot enough ,,need annealing and pickling after as the base metals come to the surface and gets a coppery look
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Re: Straighten a silver hammered coin

Post by targets » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:52 pm

Chilgrove wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:00 am
A couple of points I have learned today. Early Edward i silver pennies and halfpennies should be relatively pure silver so ought to react well to most straightening procedures. The other point is that pure silver starts to anneal at 80 degrees C.
due to oxidisation it loses some silver content in the ground thats why it goes blackened

really sulphidation
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Re: Straighten a silver hammered coin

Post by thefiggis » Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:24 pm

There are many metallurgy sites giving info on working with silver. From a detecting point of view, this page is pretty comprehensive. There are many others.

Thing is, we all need to do what works best for us. In my case it's trusting the science, but if you're happy with whatever method you find effective then carry on with it ::g
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Re: Straighten a silver hammered coin

Post by Chilgrove » Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:36 pm

Thanks guys, lots of helpful information here. I have more or less decided what to do but I'm no tellin ye. What I will do is this: when I have done the deed I will post the results. Good, bad or disastrous !

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Re: Straighten a silver hammered coin

Post by hartsman » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:27 pm

Chilgrove wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:36 pm
Thanks guys, lots of helpful information here. I have more or less decided what to do but I'm no tellin ye. What I will do is this: when I have done the deed I will post the results. Good, bad or disastrous !
Look forward to seeing an excellent result. ::g

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Re: Straighten a silver hammered coin

Post by Chilgrove » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:25 pm

Those who thought I could make a mess of this have been proved correct. Tried today to straighten and although it is now flat, there are 2 cracks which were not apparent before. I thought I was being clever as there has been much debate about the best method. So I compromised by using our electric oven at max. (250 degrees C) then immersion in cold water to anneal. I was too apprehensive about using the gas torch and thought the oven would work even though I know it is much lower temperature required for 100% annealing process. I do know a local jeweller who makes her own jewellry so I have asked her to take a look at my mess. Should have left it to the pros.
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Re: Straighten a silver hammered coin

Post by Swany » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:46 pm

That's a shame mate, you really need to get it cherry red before cooling in water. I tried the boiling water method but heard a creaking sound on the hammered when I was straightening it, but it worked fine after blow torching. Maybe worth practising on a ebay cheap hammy.
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Re: Straighten a silver hammered coin

Post by Digiffys » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:47 pm

Never mind atleast you tried and was brave enough to post pics of the outcome. Better luck next time ::g
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Re: Straighten a silver hammered coin

Post by thefiggis » Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:30 pm

Well done for posting up what happened. ::g It's all a learning process and mistakes are a vital part of that.

Don't fret about it - we've all done the same or similar. Don't be afraid to try again and if you can get confident with a gas torch then so much the better. We're not talking about industrial-strength here, just the sort you get in kitchen shops to crisp broulees and the like. The type you can buy for plumbing are a lot more powerful (I've seen one used on a Tudor coin which instantly melted!) so I'd avoid those.

Good luck ::g
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