Finding LIVE Ammunition

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Chopper
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Finding LIVE Ammunition

Post by Chopper » Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:12 am

Hi guys, I just thought I'd post this thread to clarify the laws regarding live ammunition and ordnance.

The chances are that most of us have, or at some point will, find live ammunition whilst metal detecting. Despite contrary beliefs, live ammo can still cause considerable damage, even if its been buried for 70 odd years, and It MUST be treated with respect.

Under UK law, it is illegal to be in possession of ANY form of live ammunition, and is punishable by a minimum of five years in prison.

A lady in Scotland was recently jailed for possessing a family heirloom - her fathers WW2 pistol. She had it displayed in a glass cabinet. Ignorance to the firearms laws was no excuse, and she was jailed for five years.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10335003

If you find anything that you suspect is live, then you must report it to the police immediately. If you've took your finds home, and then later discover that you've found a live bullet, then contact the police, and they will come to collect it.

NEVER attempt to deactivate a live bullet! This is also illegal without the correct licence and equipment. Not only would you be breaking the law, but you'd also be putting yourself in great danger.

It's great that so many of you will post images of bullets etc, to ask the appropriate questions. It's much better to ask, than to live in ignorance.

The forum will not condone any form of illegal activity. Any comments concerning owning live ammunition, or attempting to 'deactivate' ammunition, will be instantly removed, and appropriate action taken against the poster.

UK FIREARMS LAW
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/27


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timesearch
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Re: Finding LIVE Ammunition

Post by timesearch » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:55 pm

As an add on to this, a metal detectorist is more likely than the average person to come across a hidden weapon, or arms cache. This could be from days when the IRA had active service units on the mainland, or be related to crime or modern terrorism. If you find a modern looking container buried, don't touch it as it may be booby trapped, cover it over exactly as it was and make sure you can find it again. Contact your local special anti-terrorist officer at the county headquarters, tell them what you have found and where. Do not report it to your local station as they are likely to send an area car and this is not a good idea for two reasons. One is that they may want to take a look themselves and destroy evidence in the process, the other is that telling specialist officers will give them the opportunity to watch the cache until someone returns.
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Re: Finding LIVE Ammunition

Post by Philthy Phil » Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:41 pm

Nice one guys, sound advice for all!! B-)
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Re: Finding LIVE Ammunition

Post by adamskistater » Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:50 pm

Chopper wrote:Hi guys, I just thought I'd post this thread to clarify the laws regarding live ammunition and ordnance.

The chances are that most of us have, or at some point will, find live ammunition whilst metal detecting. Despite contrary beliefs, live ammo can still cause considerable damage, even if its been buried for 70 odd years, and It MUST be treated with respect.

Under UK law, it is illegal to be in possession of ANY form of live ammunition, and is punishable by a minimum of five years in prison.

A lady in Scotland was recently jailed for possessing a family heirloom - her fathers WW2 pistol. She had it displayed in a glass cabinet. Ignorance to the firearms laws was no excuse, and she was jailed for five years.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10335003

If you find anything that you suspect is live, then you must report it to the police immediately. If you've took your finds home, and then later discover that you've found a live bullet, then contact the police, and they will come to collect it.

NEVER attempt to deactivate a live bullet! This is also illegal without the correct licence and equipment. Not only would you be breaking the law, but you'd also be putting yourself in great danger.

It's great that so many of you will post images of bullets etc, to ask the appropriate questions. It's much better to ask, than to live in ignorance.

The forum will not condone any form of illegal activity. Any comments concerning owning live ammunition, or attempting to 'deactivate' ammunition, will be instantly removed, and appropriate action taken against the poster.

UK FIREARMS LAW
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/27
What about live blanks??

Chopper
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Re: Finding LIVE Ammunition

Post by Chopper » Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:54 pm

adamskistater wrote:What about live blanks??
Exactly the same applies buddy.

Even though they're 'blanks' (i.e. no bullet), they still contain explosives.

Chopper
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adamskistater
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Re: Finding LIVE Ammunition

Post by adamskistater » Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:36 pm

Ok cheers buddy, Better get someone to come get rid of it then :D

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Re: Finding LIVE Ammunition

Post by DanTheMan » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:54 pm

Whoa there - blanks under 1" calibre are exempt from the firearms act and are NOT classed as ammunition, they are perfectly legal to buy and own, anyone over the age of 18 can walk into a sports shop and buy them over the counter.
Blanks come in pretty much every calibre there is, it's not just the military that use them but farmers, re-enactors, dog trainers, sports fields etc etc.
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Chopper
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Re: Finding LIVE Ammunition

Post by Chopper » Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:03 pm

DanTheMan wrote:Whoa there - blanks under 1" calibre are exempt from the firearms act and are NOT classed as ammunition...
Hi Dan. Sorry, I've only just noticed this post.

Modern blanks are absolutely fine... but if you find a live WW2 blank, then thats totally different. The propellant used back then was cordite (now obsolete), and it's illegal to own in any quantity.

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Re: Finding LIVE Ammunition

Post by darthdamo74 » Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:54 pm

I was hoping to get some amunition next time I go out, will I get it back when I hand it in as they could look quite nice polished up
:-/

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Re: Finding LIVE Ammunition

Post by pippy96 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 4:22 pm

darthdamo74 wrote:I was hoping to get some amunition next time I go out, will I get it back when I hand it in as they could look quite nice polished up
:-/
the answer is no if the ammunition is LIVE
but if its been used then its safe for you to keep
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Re: Finding LIVE Ammunition

Post by Christoph1945 » Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:43 pm

God forbid that any one of us should stumble upon a modern day terrorists deposit that has been booby trapped; but if you do, do not use your mobile phone or a radio close to the deposit. Radio signals have been known to initiate a detonator.

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Re: Finding LIVE Ammunition

Post by nonmotion » Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:10 pm

I find allot of .303 heads, i guess these are ok? i dont keep the casings as they are like ring pulls where i live and usualy well rotted.
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Re: Finding LIVE Ammunition

Post by RRPG » Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:44 pm

303 heads are fine, UNLESS they have a light blue or green tip. Light blue was incendiary, green AP, both of which are illegal to possess. If they have no colouration to the tip you're fine.

RRPG
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Re: Finding LIVE Ammunition

Post by Mrnewguy » Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:33 pm

I found live ammunition on my second time out, lol 45 cal bullet straight to the station for me only a slap on the wrist this time lol =)) =)) =)) =))
here it is try and spot it lolololollool =)) =))
http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z44 ... ure175.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
bottom left if can't see it !
CS1MX will find the best and leave the rest ! :) !

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Re: Finding LIVE Ammunition

Post by Christoph1945 » Sun Jan 01, 2012 5:08 pm

RRPG wrote:303 heads are fine, UNLESS they have a light blue or green tip. Light blue was incendiary, green AP, both of which are illegal to possess. If they have no colouration to the tip you're fine.

RRPG
I have been finding shattered copper 303 head but recently found a number of stainless steel heads in reasonable condition. The stainless steel heads appear to be full of some sort of chemical solid; what do you suppose the solids might be?

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Re: Finding LIVE Ammunition

Post by RRPG » Sun Jan 01, 2012 5:47 pm

There's no way of knowing really, unless the stuff bursts into flame on contact with the air.......then it's phorphorus. :) :)

Normally the inner is lead/antimony mix and, when corroded, it can look like a white friable compound. Don't breath the dust !

Otherwise you can get a small amount of tracer material in the heads, but again there is no way of knowing unless the tip is coloured.

RRPG
Men can only ever do one thing at a time so, whatever it is you want me for, SOD OFF ! I am doing THIS !

Lots of videos of WW2 relics being recovered on my channel! Go view it!

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Re: Finding LIVE Ammunition

Post by Christoph1945 » Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:08 pm

RRPG wrote:
Normally the inner is lead/antimony mix and, when corroded, it can look like a white friable compound. Don't breath the dust !

RRPG
That's a pretty good description of what I am seeing. I suppose that the lead/antimony mix was to give the darn thing more clout and penetrating power?

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Re: Finding LIVE Ammunition

Post by RRPG » Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:06 pm

Yep :)
Men can only ever do one thing at a time so, whatever it is you want me for, SOD OFF ! I am doing THIS !

Lots of videos of WW2 relics being recovered on my channel! Go view it!

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Re: Finding LIVE Ammunition

Post by RRPG » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:35 am

I was drawn back to this thread for some reason and just noticed something.

Blanks, regardless of age or propellent fill, (whether cordite, black powder, pelletised propellent etc), do NOT require a Firearms Licence to posses, under 1inch calibre. The act itself makes no distinction between propellents and just because they contain cordite does not make them illegal.

This means you can possess WW2 or even WW1 blanks without fear of coming foul of the law.

Hope that clears things up.

RRPG
Men can only ever do one thing at a time so, whatever it is you want me for, SOD OFF ! I am doing THIS !

Lots of videos of WW2 relics being recovered on my channel! Go view it!

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Re: Finding LIVE Ammunition

Post by Beany_bot » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:04 am

Chopper wrote: Under UK law, it is illegal to be in possession of ANY form of live ammunition, and is punishable by a minimum of five years in prison.
I've got dozens of boxes of live ammunition in my house <:-P I'm not breaking the law. ;)
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Re: Finding LIVE Ammunition

Post by Wansdyke44 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:04 am

RRPG wrote:I was drawn back to this thread for some reason and just noticed something.

Blanks, regardless of age or propellent fill, (whether cordite, black powder, pelletised propellent etc), do NOT require a Firearms Licence to posses, under 1inch calibre. The act itself makes no distinction between propellents and just because they contain cordite does not make them illegal.

This means you can possess WW2 or even WW1 blanks without fear of coming foul of the law.

Hope that clears things up.

RRPG
Are you sure of that RRPG?
As I understand it, it is an offence to have unstruck primers in your possession for such as WW1/2 blank ammunition, unless you are a Section 5 licence holder, or have another legal right to have them. Therefore surely the possession of a live blank round constitutes an offence under the VCR Act?

Might be worth checking, but as I've stated before it is better to be safe than sorry when it comes to any sort of ammunition. Give me a field of Hammies any day! ;)
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Re: Finding LIVE Ammunition

Post by RRPG » Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:08 am

The info comes from one of the most well known and respected small arms cartridge collectors in the UK. His word is usually final on anything to do with small arms ammo and he was quite adamant about it on another forum. He stated quite clearly that unstruck blanks did not require an FAL.

In hindsight though I think it wise to err on the side of caution and either get advice from your local constabulary or just hand them in.

:)
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Re: Finding LIVE Ammunition

Post by Wansdyke44 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:12 am

RRPG wrote:The info comes from one of the most well known and respected small arms cartridge collectors in the UK. His word is usually final on anything to do with small arms ammo and he was quite adamant about it on another forum. He stated quite clearly that unstruck blanks did not require an FAL.

In hindsight though I think it wise to err on the side of caution and either get advice from your local constabulary or just hand them in.

:)
Whats the guys name? Can you post a link that members can read please?

Erring on the side of caution is good for me =D>
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Re: Finding LIVE Ammunition

Post by RRPG » Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:31 am

Here's the link...

http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/8 ... -law-stand.." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Tony E is the guy. Can't remember his full name but he knows what he's talking about.
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Re: Finding LIVE Ammunition

Post by Wansdyke44 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:07 am

Cheers RRPG,

I think the confusion arose in earlier posts. My personal maxim still stands, if it is live, unstruck no matter what it is, there is no advantage in owning it. It won't bring you luck, it isn't worth any more down the pub. Be sensible and contact the appropriate authorities.

Which is, in a nutshell what Chopper was saying before. I think? :-w
Last edited by Wansdyke44 on Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Finding LIVE Ammunition

Post by RRPG » Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:14 am

Spot on and I'm sorry for causing confusion.

If it's live, hand it in.
Men can only ever do one thing at a time so, whatever it is you want me for, SOD OFF ! I am doing THIS !

Lots of videos of WW2 relics being recovered on my channel! Go view it!

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Re: Finding LIVE Ammunition

Post by Christoph1945 » Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:37 pm

Just to underscore the advice that I have seen here concerning military ordnance...........a guy in America, who collectaed Civil War artifacts, took home a 9" 7.5lb cannon ball and commenced working on restoration of it on his front drive. The thing blew up and killed him! :(

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Re: Finding LIVE Ammunition

Post by alloverover » Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:46 pm

Golden28 wrote:
RRPG wrote:There's no way of knowing really, unless the stuff bursts into flame on contact with the air.......then it's phorphorus. :) :)

Normally the inner is lead/antimony mix and, when corroded, it can look like a white friable compound. Don't breath the dust !

Otherwise you can get a small amount of tracer material in the heads, but again there is no way of knowing unless the tip is coloured.

RRPG
Ive seen you mention this white powder twice now, and well all in all i keep finding it located all over finchingfield. reason being that, everyone round here is shooting pheasants and other wildlife.
So when it comes to digging up arround here.. you never really know what your going to find next. its a gamble. but metal detecting is that in general, that old bunker ive found.. i took your advice and i havent gone anywhere near it since, i dont want to be blown up.. i dont know what they used to use in WW2 when it came to underground bunker defense, for all i know it could contain a mass of explosives. Im not preppared to risk that, but .. how do i report such a find.. because quite frankly it could be nothing.. or it could be something.. how do i tell, is there anyway i can tell its an official bunker going by the surrounding land? im not Hijacking this topic with my post about what i found. but i need your advice here seeing as you seem to collect these old bombs and clean them up. i dont want to make any mistakes.

Everyday right arround the clock all you hear is gunfire.. ive found so many 410 and 12 shells everywhere its unreal ive even found shells that are double the size of a 12.. its ridiculous. most are inscribed with Eley, along with the guage, but today i found a shell that was in preety mint condition despite the fact that it was buried.. it has been fired but there was still white powder arround. which i threw away for obvious reasons. But everywhere i go i seem to run into a dam mine a hand grenade or a shell casing.. this whole place is full of explosives.. i need advice on what to do mainly.. i love this place but quite frankly the stuff im finding is all dangerous.. all i want to do is locate artifacts and im diggin up bloody bombs!
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Re: Finding LIVE Ammunition

Post by alloverover » Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:01 am

I think you have been detecting around thet white powder you are on about for to long :)) :)) :))
Only joking mate, have enjoyed reading your posts really, but please tell me.....i suspect you are one of our colonial cousins, is that the case ?

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Re: Finding LIVE Ammunition

Post by Brighton-mike » Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:15 am

think he meant are you from across the pond, ie are you from the states
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