Finding LIVE Ammunition

[roamingrob]

Thanks mate I will. Rob

[Wansdyke44]

thanks guys, I hope they remain fragments, and not a live grenade Rob

Usually the HG or Army would have dug a small trench to throw grenades from, they didn't just chuck them about willy nilly. Obviously that trench will be filled in long ago, but if you start to find fragments you might be able to work out where that trench was.

Good huntin"

[roamingrob]

Hi mate thanks, I have found one of these pits before and have a couple of HG bottoms. this area was a wood the local home guard used to march through and do some training in. I guy I know who lived next to the wood at the time told me about them but never said anything about HG training
Did the home guard have them ? as the 4 x 303 bullet were a drop and on the bank of the river was any thing else dropped ? was the thought. i have rechecked to area again today and nothing else turned up. Rob

[Wansdyke44]

Hi mate thanks, I have found one of these pits before and have a couple of HG bottoms. this area was a wood the local home guard used to march through and do some training in. I guy I know who lived next to the wood at the time told me about them but never said anything about HG training
Did the home guard have them ? as the 4 x 303 bullet were a drop and on the bank of the river was any thing else dropped ? was the thought. i have rechecked to area again today and nothing else turned up. Rob

Home guard as well as regular army were trained in use of grenade throwing and so yes it is likely, especially if they could use the quarry area, well out of the way. Could be interesting.

[Lostgold]

Hi All

Though I would copy a paste this from the Home Office Guide on Firearms Licensing Laws.

iv) Blank cartridges
2.52 Blank cartridges not exceeding 1 inch in diameter are also exempt from the certification
procedure.

v) Display Boards and decorative purposes
2.53 In the absence of a court ruling, inert cartridges and ammunition mounted on display
boards are not regarded as being subject to the Acts. Similarly, inert bullets mounted on
key rings or cuff links are assumed to be exempt.

[oldartefact]

As an add on to this, a metal detectorist is more likely than the average person to come across a hidden weapon, or arms cache. This could be from days when the IRA had active service units on the mainland, or be related to crime or modern terrorism. If you find a modern looking container buried, don't touch it as it may be booby trapped, cover it over exactly as it was and make sure you can find it again. Contact your local special anti-terrorist officer at the county headquarters, tell them what you have found and where. Do not report it to your local station as they are likely to send an area car and this is not a good idea for two reasons. One is that they may want to take a look themselves and destroy evidence in the process, the other is that telling specialist officers will give them the opportunity to watch the cache until someone returns.
Cheers, John

Fact is that if you find anythings suspicious you report it to your local police station immediately ... the advice about "not reporting to your local police station" given above makes zero sense .. and to be honest is staggeringly laughable.

[Wansdyke44]

As an add on to this, a metal detectorist is more likely than the average person to come across a hidden weapon, or arms cache. This could be from days when the IRA had active service units on the mainland, or be related to crime or modern terrorism. If you find a modern looking container buried, don't touch it as it may be booby trapped, cover it over exactly as it was and make sure you can find it again. Contact your local special anti-terrorist officer at the county headquarters, tell them what you have found and where. Do not report it to your local station as they are likely to send an area car and this is not a good idea for two reasons. One is that they may want to take a look themselves and destroy evidence in the process, the other is that telling specialist officers will give them the opportunity to watch the cache until someone returns.
Cheers, John

Fact is that if you find anythings suspicious you report it to your local police station immediately ... the advice about "not reporting to your local police station" given above makes zero sense .. and to be honest is staggeringly laughable.

I think the reply from "Timesearch" John might appear misguided, but I don't think it was ever meant to be laughable and what he wrote at the time makes a great deal of sense. Given the post was written 6 years ago we can safely say alot has moved on since then in the world and the local Police would be more than capable of handling a problem like this (and if they needed to call in the anti terrorist guys then they would contact them, not you the finder).

If you are concerned call it in, don't touch, don't put yourself or anyone else at risk.

[oldartefact]

As an add on to this, a metal detectorist is more likely than the average person to come across a hidden weapon, or arms cache. This could be from days when the IRA had active service units on the mainland, or be related to crime or modern terrorism. If you find a modern looking container buried, don't touch it as it may be booby trapped, cover it over exactly as it was and make sure you can find it again. Contact your local special anti-terrorist officer at the county headquarters, tell them what you have found and where. Do not report it to your local station as they are likely to send an area car and this is not a good idea for two reasons. One is that they may want to take a look themselves and destroy evidence in the process, the other is that telling specialist officers will give them the opportunity to watch the cache until someone returns.
Cheers, John

Fact is that if you find anythings suspicious you report it to your local police station immediately ... the advice about "not reporting to your local police station" given above makes zero sense .. and to be honest is staggeringly laughable.

I think the reply from "Timesearch" John might appear misguided, but I don't think it was ever meant to be laughable and what he wrote at the time makes a great deal of sense. Given the post was written 6 years ago we can safely say alot has moved on since then in the world and the local Police would be more than capable of handling a problem like this (and if they needed to call in the anti terrorist guys then they would contact them, not you the finder).

If you are concerned call it in, don't touch, don't put yourself or anyone else at risk.

I agree the advice was genuine, but disagree that the advice was sensible at the time. Yes the world has moved on ... but it can never be a good idea not to call the police on the grounds that the police may inadvertently destroy evidence.. I know that one or two folk may enjoy wearing high heels but we are not some modern day Miss Marple's, we weren't Marple's back then ... and we are not Marple's now ... that said I do think that some may have lost their's ... Marbles that is.

[Wansdyke44]

... but it can never be a good idea not to call the police on the grounds that the police may inadvertently destroy evidence.. I know that one or two folk may enjoy wearing high heels but we are not some modern day Miss Marple's, we weren't Marple's back then ... and we are not Marple's now ... that said I do think that some may have lost their's ... Marbles that is.

Agreed.

[Gibbo1304]

Hi New to the forum but need some advice on the live ammunition, found 4 303 intact cartridges with a phillips type bullet (apologies for the description) - the markings are BV11Z 1942.........are these incindery rounds and who do i contact about dealing with them???

[the-roman]

I found a hand grenade once with pin intact. apparently it belonged to the then home guard. bomb squad cam out within an hour and blew it up in the field where I found it quite exciting at the time

[Koala]

Hi New to the forum but need some advice on the live ammunition, found 4 303 intact cartridges with a phillips type bullet (apologies for the description) - the markings are BV11Z 1942.........are these incindery rounds and who do i contact about dealing with them???

Picture needed BVIIZ headstamp and discription don't match. Live ammunition needs handing in. I normally just leave them in a ditch.

[Easylife]

Live ammunition needs handing in. I normally just leave them in a ditch.

That sounds like the best plan for bullets, you won't get any thanks off the cops for dumping a handful of old unstable live ammo on their counter. It would be illegal for you to possess or transport it without a license anyway.

[sweepstick47]

... but it can never be a good idea not to call the police on the grounds that the police may inadvertently destroy evidence.. I know that one or two folk may enjoy wearing high heels but we are not some modern day Miss Marple's, we weren't Marple's back then ... and we are not Marple's now ... that said I do think that some may have lost their's ... Marbles that is.

Agreed.

.....it's entirely possibly that marbles are not the only thing which could be lost (winces) !!
(with apologies to any ladies should it provoke a mental image). Regards ss47

[RRPG]

BVIIZ

B = Incendiary
VII = Mark 7 cartridge
Z = Nitrocellulose fill

Just take them down to the police station and explain you found them MDing, it'll be fine. As I am sure you're aware, possession of live ammunition, regardless of condition, age or how long they've been in the ground, is illegal without the relevant licence. Sooner you hand them in, sooner you won't risk being arrested!



1942 is year of manufacture. There will also be a manufacturer code like RG or R^L etc. etc.

[Wansdyke44]

Hi New to the forum but need some advice on the live ammunition, found 4 303 intact cartridges with a phillips type bullet (apologies for the description) - the markings are BV11Z 1942.........are these incindery rounds and who do i contact about dealing with them???

A picture would help. Not sure what you meant by a "philips type" bullet - is it possible that the end of the cartridge is just crimped and that these are live blank cartridges, in which case they are safe and legal to own.

[Twit]

Primers, detonation caps, blanks.

This is just a short word of warning on unfired empty casings and blank rounds.

While the empty cartridge holds an unfired primer, it is questionably legal by

http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/9 ... nd-the-law

and law may have changed also. Blank rounds also hold primers.

There is a lot of hearsay on how to de-activate primers. The only point I have learned is that unless struck they may be live.

Following that is how to strike them, or for people who like to cement their heads in microwave ovens or slide down between stair elevators set them off.Unless you are trained to, don't.

I have read several stories, here is one :

"I posted this not long ago, but I read in Richard Lee's Modern Reloading that he detonated some primers and chronographed them, getting velocities over 1700 FPS. He mentioned someone who accidentally fired one and it went into his thigh, through the muscle, and stopped against the bone. Primers are not to be trifled with."


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthr ... masse-quot

Hand them in, or have a professional de-activate them for you.

[MilitaryMetalMagnut]

Primers, detonation caps, blanks.

This is just a short word of warning on unfired empty casings and blank rounds.

While the empty cartridge holds an unfired primer, it is questionably legal by

http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/9 ... nd-the-law

and law may have changed also. Blank rounds also hold primers.

There is a lot of hearsay on how to de-activate primers. The only point I have learned is that unless struck they may be live.

Following that is how to strike them, or for people who like to cement their heads in microwave ovens or slide down between stair elevators set them off.Unless you are trained to, don't.

I have read several stories, here is one :

"I posted this not long ago, but I read in Richard Lee's Modern Reloading that he detonated some primers and chronographed them, getting velocities over 1700 FPS. He mentioned someone who accidentally fired one and it went into his thigh, through the muscle, and stopped against the bone. Primers are not to be trifled with."


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthr ... masse-quot

Hand them in, or have a professional de-activate them for you.

Legally speaking, it's perfectly fine. 'Ammunition' is classed as consisting of a bullet, powder, and primer put together into a case, any one (Or more) of these parts removed is then no longer classed as ammunition. (This is why blanks don't require a licence like Live rounds do).

I'm personally not a fan of BOCN, to be frank. Certain members there aren't very keen on educating the lesser knowledgeable and would rather scare monger them instead (and in my experience, are especially hostile to metal detectorists finding these things). Not the way to teach people, IMHO.
With that said, a poster on the thread you attached does exactly what I do with un-struck primers, and that's by soaking it in Vinegar (Or even WD-40 works well). I would never recommend oiling primers to anyone, as they most certainly 'can' come alive again (though, not always!) Vinegar kills them for good.

Quoting another person on that same BOCN thread - "... I was given an unwanted bag of small arms ammo. by a well known museum. But when I looked at what I had been given, I started to doubt myself if it was live or inert - can you tell the difference in your hand of the weight of a live 9mm or .380 round and an inert one - I bet not. ..."

For this reason, this is why I have put a small ball bearing inside the case of all my inert rounds with un-struck primers in my collection. No way anything can be mistaken for being live.

Best regards,

Simon

[Twit]

Thanks Simon, that is sound advice.

I chose the BOCN page because it was the only one I encountered which mentioned whether primed cases were considered legal.

Primers are not much discussed outside of gun forums which is why I brought it up, main point being that it is not a good idea to try to strike, or set them off, yourself.

Needed mentioning.

[MilitaryMetalMagnut]

Thanks Simon, that is sound advice.

Primers are not much discussed outside of gun forums which is why I mention it, just not a good idea to try to strike, or set them off, yourself.

Indeed, it was a good point to raise. Having personal experience of this, just thought I'd offer my two cents worth.

Best regards,

Simon

[fred]

Thanks Simon, that is sound advice.

Primers are not much discussed outside of gun forums which is why I mention it, just not a good idea to try to strike, or set them off, yourself.

Definitely not a good idea to frig around with things that are designed to explode unless you know what you are doing. I have had and seen missfires where there has been a pin strike and indentation but no discharge so even apparently spent rounds may carry an element of risk.

[RRPG]

From a legal perspective, you need a licence to purchase or acquire a primer, and a licence to sell or distribute a primer. The law does NOT mention possession so there is no issue from that perspective.

As to the safety of primers, I agree with MMM that some posts on BOCN are deliberately meant to scare people. If you think about the functionality of a primer, unless you are incredibly stupid and try to drill, strike or remove a primer by force, or heat it up to above 80 degrees, then they are perfectly safe.

Blank rounds up to a calibre of 1 inch are legal to possess, with the law not making mention of whether or not the primer is still viable. This in itself seems to suggest that an unfired primer in your possession is not illegal.

Saying all that, I will always recommend primers are made inert by oil soak, (although many police forces do not actually recognise this as a 'secure' method), and cartridges you wish to display as complete are either drilled so as to be visually inert, or contain a small object so they rattle when shaken.

[Twit]

"If you think about the functionality of a primer, unless you are incredibly stupid and try to drill, strike or remove a primer by force, or heat it up to above 80 degrees, then they are perfectly safe."

That was who my message was aimed at. People see a small cap and decide to bang it with a hammer for example, or another example I read was firing an airgun to set them off ( lodged in a persons shin) . Don't underestimate what people will get up to, especially kids but some of the stories are from people who should know better. Blanks as well... errr from first hand experience, when fired there are often bits of shrapnel from the casing that fire out, and at point blank powder burns. Weren't me ... , not sure I I can tell the story here.

[RRPG]

I can assure you, after over 20 years of searching for, preserving and collecting nothing but WW2 relics, I know exactly how stupid people can be, even those who should know better.

[Wansdyke44]

Wonder if it was a Birmingham made cartridge...

[Justme18]

Over here I'm a 18 year old deus handler from belgium. Just a few days ago I was out hunting in the fields behind my house and found over 65 unused german mauser rounds some still connected but none used. They are 2.5 inch tall and a bit over 1/5 of an inch thick at the point. What do you think? Can i keep em?

Greetings from Belgium.

[JWL]

Personally I think you’d be mad to even touch them. Unused ordnance must be very common in your country and I’d think the authorities would have very well honed procedures to deal with them. My personal view is give the police a call and in the mean time definitely don’t take them home as souvenirs.

[Wansdyke44]

Over here I'm a 18 year old deus handler from belgium. Just a few days ago I was out hunting in the fields behind my house and found over 65 unused german mauser rounds some still connected but none used. They are 2.5 inch tall and a bit over 1/5 of an inch thick at the point. What do you think? Can i keep em?

Greetings from Belgium.

So these are regular 7.92 mauser rounds right, steel or brass cartridges? Without a visual I would not like to advise you, they might be explosive bullets. Sounds like they were dropped from a box. Where abouts in Belgium are you, generally?

W

[RRPG]

Quite apart from the laws relating to possession of live ammunition, (and as you're in Belgium, we don't know what the law is over there!), you will never get any advice other than to hand them in to the relevant authorities.

Live ammunition, regardless of if it has been buried in the ground for 70+ years, is live ammunition and can quite easily still be viable. It is designed to kill and will still quite happily do so, so get them handed in to the local authorities immediately.

[Wansdyke44]

Over here I'm a 18 year old deus handler from belgium. Just a few days ago I was out hunting in the fields behind my house and found over 65 unused german mauser rounds some still connected but none used. They are 2.5 inch tall and a bit over 1/5 of an inch thick at the point. What do you think? Can i keep em?

Greetings from Belgium.

PM sent.