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What Does A Small Hammered Sound Like?

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:50 am
by Wigeon
I have recently moved onto an area that is higher on the fen edge and medieval artefacts would seem to be on the cards. ::g
E-TRAC, using a roman site tadpole discrimination, with only the bottom right blacked out and conductive multi-tones.
Having read several cryptic comments on the (in ground) sound/signal of a small silver hammered, I am really none the wiser for all practical purposes. :-/
I have also concluded that air tests are not really useful where the FBS E-Trac is concerned. However as I do not yet possess a small silver hammered, not feasible for me anyway. 8-|
My question is, ''What would a small silver hammered sound like?'' in 'Janet & John' terms please?
Where would they most likely appear on the screen?

Re: What Does A Small Hammered Sound Like?

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:44 am
by fred
Very small and repeatable. You may only pick up the smaller ones if you swing very slowly indeed. ::g

Anything small and non ferrous will do as a practice target.

Re: What Does A Small Hammered Sound Like?

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:51 am
by slowsweep
low tone, on the left of the screen around the 10, 11, 12, 13 line but may be jumpy/spitty. ie may move around erratically.

GL&HH ::g

Re: What Does A Small Hammered Sound Like?

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:43 pm
by Bargeman
This might be of help, hammered coins are at 10.48



::g


BM [:)

Re: What Does A Small Hammered Sound Like?

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:01 pm
by Wigeon
Bargeman wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:43 pm
This might be of help, hammered coins are at 10.48



::g


BM [:)
Thanks Bargeman. I had previously watched that video. I am somewhat doubtful that air tests would give me the information I am seeking, as the E-TRAC signals from small objects the ground seem to bear little resemblance to the air test of the same object.
I am confident that even I would not miss those signals on the video though. ;)

Re: What Does A Small Hammered Sound Like?

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:05 pm
by Wigeon
fred wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:44 am
Very small and repeatable. You may only pick up the smaller ones if you swing very slowly indeed. ::g

Anything small and non ferrous will do as a practice target.
Thanks Fred. Could you give me an example of something suitable to use and the method please?

Re: What Does A Small Hammered Sound Like?

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:12 pm
by Wigeon
Thanks Slowsweep
''low tone, on the left of the screen around the 10, 11, 12, 13 line but may be jumpy/spitty. ie may move around erratically.''
Thats exactly the type of information that I was hoping for. ::g The type of signal that it is very easy to miss then??

Re: What Does A Small Hammered Sound Like?

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:35 pm
by Bargeman
Wigeon wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:01 pm
I am somewhat doubtful that air tests would give me the information I am seeking, as the E-TRAC signals from small objects the ground seem to bear little resemblance to the air test of the same object.
I would not discount the information so easily, as although I am by no means an expert on the etrac, and only used one a few times, I did do some testing with a small Henry V111, and an Edward cut half, both buried at around 5 inches, and the numbers and signal were very close to the air tests that had been done. 12-04 to 12-08 and up in top left hand corner, the tone though was a little scratchy, using two tone ferrous.
I honestly don't think you would pass up the signal, it may have been scratchy, but not jumping all over the screen.

Good luck and happy hunting.. ::g


BM [:)

Re: What Does A Small Hammered Sound Like?

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:55 pm
by Wigeon
Bargeman wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:35 pm
Wigeon wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:01 pm
I am somewhat doubtful that air tests would give me the information I am seeking, as the E-TRAC signals from small objects the ground seem to bear little resemblance to the air test of the same object.
I would not discount the information so easily, as although I am by no means an expert on the etrac, and only used one a few times, I did do some testing with a small Henry V111, and an Edward cut half, both buried at around 5 inches, and the numbers and signal were very close to the air tests that had been done. 12-04 to 12-08 and up in top left hand corner, the tone though was a little scratchy, using two tone ferrous.
I honestly don't think you would pass up the signal, it may have been scratchy, but not jumping all over the screen.

Good luck and happy hunting.. ::g


BM [:)
Thats very interesting thank you. I have certainly learned to dig any signal on the FE12 line, despite digging lots of can-shred and the like. That FE12 line covers a multitude of sins on the E-TRAC but I never pass one by. At least we dont have to dig coke with the E-TRAC,as the FBS system seems to sort it out nicely, so am grateful for that small mercy.

Re: What Does A Small Hammered Sound Like?

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:20 pm
by dig-dog
I seem to remember that I found a Saxon farthing a few years back at about 5"
and the numbers were 5:15.
Hope this is of interest to you.
DD ::g

Edit. 15:05

Re: What Does A Small Hammered Sound Like?

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:56 pm
by stargazer
Yeh they always say don't look at the numbers listen to the sound.

My left ear is crap. The numbers are as Bargeman says ; the numbers are 12 - 04 to 12-10 IMHO.

Re: What Does A Small Hammered Sound Like?

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:46 pm
by the-roman
Get a ring pull, take the ring off and use the tab. this will sound like a small hammered ::g

Re: What Does A Small Hammered Sound Like?

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:10 pm
by Allectus
Don't worry about sounds/tones & DO NOT/NEVER dig by numbers!!..... Dig any each-way sounding signal & even a slightly differing two wayer.

Very tiny hammered/quarters(using conductive) can sound very similar to foil, the larger Edward pennies will(generally) sing 'sweet as a nut'.

I use both the ET & CTX & can honestly say; I never, ever, look at the screen! ::g

Be lucky

A ;)

Re: What Does A Small Hammered Sound Like?

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:45 pm
by Wigeon
Thanks Allectus. I have had my E-TRAC for just over a year and am at the stage of having a fair idea of foil/scrunched up silver paper/can shred by the tones and signal but just cant yet resist checking the screen sometimes. However, I do dig all those two way signals, so hopefully shouldn't miss something by not digging.
I have seen a lot written about the signals from small hammered coins but not described in useful detail. Your advice perhaps explains why that is so.
Can-shred rather than foil is the bane of my life. We have some large fenland drainage ditches (like small rivers) where people sling beer cans etc. The dredger comes along and deposits them on the fields amongst tons of slush. The humps of slush are then spread out and along comes the farmer with the power harrow or rotorvater and chops them all up!
Depending upon their material, shape and size, they give beautiful signals that just have to be dug.
I'm getting there....albeit slowly. ::g

Re: What Does A Small Hammered Sound Like?

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:01 pm
by littleboot
I don't use an Etrac and I don't go in for machines with screens and numbers because screens are mines of useless and inaccurate information. Always trust your ears.

Anyway, aside from that I do have a piece of advice......it is quite simple really. Apart from rarities, small hammered coins can be purchased for a pittance. Especially cruddy ones. And for your purpose that is all you need. It is a worthwhile investment and will give you all the info you need, in different conditions, in different soils etc etc.
Given the cost of your machine it seems a pity not to simply buy a grot or two off fleabay or elsewhere and experiment. I used to have an old hammered which I stuck with araldite onto a stick so I could shove it in the ground at different angles. It was my version of the old Mewnorton Test Peg.

Re: What Does A Small Hammered Sound Like?

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:19 pm
by fred
Some great advice has been given on this thread.

Purchasing a hammered probably won't really help because hammies vary considerably and presumably you'd never miss an easy hammie anyway as most of them give stonking great signals. ::g

Unfortunately the more difficult hammies can come in almost anywhere. Minelab sound and number ids are ok up to a certain depth but then they become very dubious indeed and sometimes extremely misleading. The real values of the id systems are that you can safely ignore some iron. If your detector is set right you will still dig iron but not more than about 10% of your total finds.

I'm afraid there is no easy answer for separating out good targets in the ground and my original advice stands. :D

Re: What Does A Small Hammered Sound Like?

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:53 pm
by littleboot
It helped me Fred. Especially at awkward depths and on new ground and with unfamiliar machines back in the day. We could go on forever about this hammy and that hammy and the different signals they can give. According to whether they are 'easy' or not.
He can always purchase a 'difficult hammy' I suppose.
Thing is, he was asking what one would come in as with his Etrac and it seems to me that buying a few totalled ones would answer that question in the most direct way.
These days most of the hammered I dig are 'difficult' due to the parsimonious nature of French rulers and their habit of debasing them. To be honest I'm not much interested in finding tiddly bits of hammereds and have never understood the attraction. I want the good ones....the bigger and noisier the better. :))

Re: What Does A Small Hammered Sound Like?

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:01 pm
by fred
littleboot wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:53 pm
It helped me Fred. Especially at awkward depths and on new ground and with unfamiliar machines back in the day. We could go on forever about this hammy and that hammy and the different signals they can give. According to whether they are 'easy' or not.
He can always purchase a 'difficult hammy' I suppose.
Thing is, he was asking what one would come in as with his Etrac and it seems to me that buying a few totalled ones would answer that question in the most direct way.
These days most of the hammered I dig are 'difficult' due to the parsimonious nature of French rulers and their habit of debasing them. To be honest I'm not much interested in finding tiddly bits of hammereds and have never understood the attraction. I want the good ones....the bigger and noisier the better. :))
Amen to that! ::g

Re: What Does A Small Hammered Sound Like?

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:13 pm
by Oxgirl36
Wigeon wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:45 pm
Thanks Allectus. I have had my E-TRAC for just over a year and am at the stage of having a fair idea of foil/scrunched up silver paper/can shred by the tones and signal but just cant yet resist checking the screen sometimes. However, I do dig all those two way signals, so hopefully shouldn't miss something by not digging.
I have seen a lot written about the signals from small hammered coins but not described in useful detail. Your advice perhaps explains why that is so.
Can-shred rather than foil is the bane of my life. We have some large fenland drainage ditches (like small rivers) where people sling beer cans etc. The dredger comes along and deposits them on the fields amongst tons of slush. The humps of slush are then spread out and along comes the farmer with the power harrow or rotorvater and chops them all up!
Depending upon their material, shape and size, they give beautiful signals that just have to be dug.
I'm getting there....albeit slowly. ::g
Ahhhhh not all hammies give two way signals. If they are edge on or a cut one they don’t necessarily give a two way signal :E - they can ‘disappear’ one way. If it sounds good one way dig it. I only do the two way test now if I suspect it’s big iron. As said above, trust your ears!

And I found a ‘test’ hammie was very useful ::g

Re: What Does A Small Hammered Sound Like?

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:52 am
by slowsweep
use your ears and eyes, ML didnt spend 10s of 1000s developing the screen so ppl can ignore it, its a very handy tool, some targets will give an iron tone when on the edge of detection but the screen may say otherwise ;)

Re: What Does A Small Hammered Sound Like?

Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:43 am
by Wigeon
Yesterday morning I detected for two hours on a stubble field where the medieval finds are on the cards. I chose an area where I expected plenty of my foe, the can-shred.
As a result of all the good advice on this thread, I decided to listen to the signals, try to guess what may be there, then dig without checking the screen numbers and position.
Something that I particularly noted was that can-shred came in two very distinct signals. One was very high pitched with a 'squeal' aspect, which I had a good idea was can-shred. The other was a much lower sweeter tone, which was a definite digger. On checking the screen with similar signals, the squealers gave high CO readings but bounced all over the place, whilst the lower tone was mid screen on the left and more stable.
I stuck it out but eventually moved to another area but kept on just using my ears without checking the screen. Managed a George III 1807 half penny and a Victoria 1889 half penny before the sausage and mash called.
Using roman site tadpole pattern and conductive multi with stock coil.
In recent months I have tried Gaz' two tone ferrous settings and ferrous multi-tones, so think I now need to give the multi-tone conductive a fair trial too. Work in progress but no hammered coin yet.

Re: What Does A Small Hammered Sound Like?

Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:25 pm
by Easylife
My last one sounded like this.

Re: What Does A Small Hammered Sound Like?

Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:54 pm
by Wigeon
Easylife wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:25 pm
My last one sounded like this.
Nice one ! What are your settings ? :D

Re: What Does A Small Hammered Sound Like?

Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:10 pm
by Easylife
Wigeon wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:54 pm
Easylife wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:25 pm
My last one sounded like this.
Nice one ! What are your settings ? :D
I forget, but it sounded the same when I also found a trumpet brooch. :))

Re: What Does A Small Hammered Sound Like?

Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:15 pm
by littleboot
Ah but sweep.....it all depends if people use the screen to help them decide NOT to dig or to help them decide TO dig. My experience with detecting with folks with screens (hubby, this means YOU!) is that they do altogether too much of the former.
Besides....Hotpoint developed a lot of the programs on my washing machine for a reason ( that being mainly about justifying the price tag 8-| ) but the thing is only 3 of are really practical and necessary the rest are simply 'there' and quite rightly ignored. :))

Re: What Does A Small Hammered Sound Like?

Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:02 pm
by holloway
My first hammy was a Charles 1 penny ,and to be honest i would have left it if i hadnt just read some of the advice on this forum especially dig every two way signal.
With my Etrac the signal sounded very foil like and fuzzy .Larger silver gives a great unmistakable tone .
Later i dug out a paper thin Mary groat also weak fuzzy signal even when out of the ground.So a big thanks to all who give advice on this forum i would have missed some nice finds without you !!

Re: What Does A Small Hammered Sound Like?

Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:52 pm
by Wigeon
First and foremost, many thanks to 'littleboot' who kindly sent me a silver hammered half groat through the post. ::g

Today my pal and I performed some 'in ground' tests. The coin was glued to the end of a piece of dowel and pushed into the ground to varying depths.

The audio response, albeit very varied, was always a 'digger' despite the signal becoming broken when deeper than four inches. The 'smooth' response helped with this.

The screen numbers jumped all over the place except when the coin was actually on the surface.
In the ground the numbers sometimes even said that it was iron, particularly when on edge. Quite useless for all practical purposes. :-/

Auto sensitivity at +3 would not register at six inches but manual at 30 (max) gave a good signal. The 'all metal' screen at manual 30(max) the clearest of all.

All in all, a rather salutary lesson, with lots to think about. More tests next week on different soil.

Thanks again 'littleboot', you're a star!