Gold

[Allectus]

Gold + copper = rose gold.

[Siddy B]

Siddy the coin description is here......

Many thanks for your reply, they do state no other metals are included but that is not the case.So the advert is misleading it is no bother to me i have no intention of buying one but is at least misleading how it is put over but Ha.Ho.

[The Don]

Many thanks for your reply, they do state no other metals are included but that is not the case.So the advert is misleading it is no bother to me i have no intention of buying one but is at least misleading how it is put over but Ha.Ho.

All gold unless it is 24 ct, has some other metal in it, it is not always because it's added, just that mined gold is rarely 24 ct pure it usually is tainted a bit with something else, a miner finding a mine that produced 24 ct. gold would be a very happy man! It still is usually referred to commercially as pure gold as it's not gold plated.
If you have a 9 or 18 ct wedding ring it will have some other metal in it even if it is yellow.

The Don

[mrmallard]

It is a genuine question they do state no other metals included i was only asking how they made rose gold without adding other metals.

Having been around the advertising claims area for decades I thought I'd add a perspective on how this all works. Stop now if you're not interested.

A lot depends on what's written (the claim), how you read the claim, and the impression you take away. A lot also depends on your point of view.

The main claim is "A gold one-eighth sovereign in the purest possible 22 carat rose gold alloy"

From the view of a scientist (also me).
1. 24ct gold is not pure gold. 24ct is just a trading standard.
2. Rose gold does not exist i.e. it is not a variant of gold.
3. Rose gold is a marketing name for a gold alloy with no standards.
4. In pure commercial value rose gold made with gold and copper is worth less than when alloyed with silver and copper (in exact terms).

From a consumer's point of view (also me)
1. 24ct gold is "pure" gold.
2. Rose gold does exist because I can buy it.
3. 22ct rose gold is as valuable as any other 22ct gold and I might even think it is more valuable though I don't understand why.

Depending on your perspective the same information will lead you to different conclusions.
When assessing advertising claims you have to consider the position of the "reasonably well informed consumer", not the expert nor the not so clever.

The claim, "A gold one-eighth sovereign in the purest possible 22 carat rose gold alloy" is misleading for two reasons, the second being more important.
1. There is no standard for rose gold i.e. there is no measure of purity. Therefore, you can't be more or less pure.
2. The use of the phrase "purest possible" could lead people to think the metal is of better quality and, therefore, more valuable. We know this is not the case as the more silver you add to the alloy makes it more valuable than a single alloy with copper (I know the colour will change).

Could you challenge the claim: Most certainly yes. Would the challenge be successful; I think not. And that's because there is extensive use of the term "alloy" and they go to lengths to explain the situation and that it is still 22ct gold. This means the "reasonably well informed consumer" is not being mislead when the information is taken in the round.

The other claim which you say is ".... i was only asking how they made rose gold without adding other metals" isn't worded that way. They say they alloy 22ct gold with 2 ct of copper to make rose gold and don't add any other metals. So factual and not misleading.

[geoman]

Excellent analysis of the situation.

A similar fudge operates with Welsh Clogau Gold Mine products to play on the " Rose " bit being unique to gold mined from that location and that it was used by Royalty for wedding rings and so on.
When you enquire further you find that a pinch of Clogau Gold is used in whatever grade of gold item they are selling is made of. Now a pinch can mean all sorts and considering the mine has only produced a limited amount of gold in the many 20th and 21st C attempts to rework the stock must have been used up by now.

The products made are a rose colour gold made by the adding of copper to a gold alloy from other sources around the world to make it so. In reality it is a marketing ploy to make the purchaser feel that they are buying into something unique at a very expensive price and Welsh. The bottom line with all gold coins and jewellery is that they are only ever worth the gold content on the day and whatever the general purchaser will pay over that.

[Siddy B]

Having been around the advertising claims area for decades I thought I'd add a perspective on how this all works. Stop now if you're not interested.

A lot depends on what's written (the claim), how you read the claim, and the impression you take away. A lot also depends on your point of view.

The main claim is "A gold one-eighth sovereign in the purest possible 22 carat rose gold alloy"

From the view of a scientist (also me).
1. 24ct gold is not pure gold. 24ct is just a trading standard.
2. Rose gold does not exist i.e. it is not a variant of gold.
3. Rose gold is a marketing name for a gold alloy with no standards.
4. In pure commercial value rose gold made with gold and copper is worth less than when alloyed with silver and copper (in exact terms).

From a consumer's point of view (also me)
1. 24ct gold is "pure" gold.
2. Rose gold does exist because I can buy it.
3. 22ct rose gold is as valuable as any other 22ct gold and I might even think it is more valuable though I don't understand why.

Depending on your perspective the same information will lead you to different conclusions.
When assessing advertising claims you have to consider the position of the "reasonably well informed consumer", not the expert nor the not so clever.

The claim, "A gold one-eighth sovereign in the purest possible 22 carat rose gold alloy" is misleading for two reasons, the second being more important.
1. There is no standard for rose gold i.e. there is no measure of purity. Therefore, you can't be more or less pure.
2. The use of the phrase "purest possible" could lead people to think the metal is of better quality and, therefore, more valuable. We know this is not the case as the more silver you add to the alloy makes it more valuable than a single alloy with copper (I know the colour will change).

Could you challenge the claim: Most certainly yes. Would the challenge be successful; I think not. And that's because there is extensive use of the term "alloy" and they go to lengths to explain the situation and that it is still 22ct gold. This means the "reasonably well informed consumer" is not being mislead when the information is taken in the round.

The other claim which you say is ".... i was only asking how they made rose gold without adding other metals" isn't worded that way. They say they alloy 22ct gold with 2 ct of copper to make rose gold and don't add any other metals. So factual and not misleading.

Thank you for your very informative reply i will now put this to rest and thank you once again for your very in depth reply.

[Fusion]

I'm not sure Siddy's question is fully answered ...

Copper would normally be responsible for 'rose' colour. For example 18ct jewellery, which is generally 18/24 gold and just about all of the remaining 6/24 ct being copper.( ie. 75% gold / 25% copper )
But ... 22ct "gold Sovereign" alloy is normally 22/24 gold, and 2/24 copper, so you CAN'T add more copper to make it 'rose' coloured. If you made this 1/8th sov coin from the alloy stated, it would just be the SAME COLOUR as any regular Sovereign.
So they HAVE to be doing something to the surface of the coin to change its colour:

( 1 ) Using chemicals to reduce the amount of gold, leaving the surface copper-rich.
This may be achievable with acids similar to those used for 'carat-testing' of jewellery, which can definitely leave a discoloured stain on a coin.

( 2 ) Using chemicals to add extra copper to the surface. I don't know what would do this, but as an example, in the electronics industry, "electro-less tin plating" can be done, adding a layer of tin to copper tracks on circuit boards etc, without using any electroplating equipment.

( 3 ) Electro-plating a very thin layer of copper onto the surface, just enough to give a coppery sheen.

And the super unlikely:
( 4 ) Using pressure-clad technology, like the USA 10 and 25 cent coins. So applying a thin layer of 18ct 'rose gold' over a core of ( say 22.5ct ) regular gold. The result is a coin that looks like 18ct 'rose gold' , but has an average carat rating of 22ct. It has to be a cheap process, as the US mint use it for near-worthless coins, so applying it to £50+ coins is certainly viable.

I think this last option is unlikely, because the publicity blurb would be proudly detailing all the "gee-whizz technology" used to create such a metallurgical marvel.

Option ( 1 ) seems the most likely; some chemical dip on the coin blanks, before they are struck, I guess.

[mrmallard]

Looking at their website they have a different claim which is also poorly worded:
THE 2025 ST GEORGE ROSE GOLD ONE EIGHTH SOVEREIGN
£79.00
This coin is the first of its kind ever to be minted from the purest possible 22 carat rose gold alloy

The problematic word is “kind”.
1/8th sovereigns are not new so it can’t be the first of its kind.
But
A 1/8th sovereign of this design and with Charles’ head is the first of its kind.
If you take the second explanation then it doesn’t matter if the alloy has been used before. Is you take the first then it’s wrong and the alloy also becomes relevant.

It’s also important to know the alloy for 1/8th coins as the assumption is the same alloy as the sovereign. There’s also a gold/palladium 1/8th so we know they tinker with the alloy.

[KevinB]

Apart from the gold debate who`s going to buy one?........Probably many!....

The coin reminds me of a tacky bit of tatt like a souvenir, I suppose it is in a way. It`s the sort of thing I could see an elderly relative buying one for a youngster in the family. Sure it`s gold and has a bit of value but I would`nt want one it would end up in a closed drawer.....If your a lover good luck to you and enjoy, just my opinoin.......

[LuckyB]

What premium over the bullion value would you be expected to pay for this tat?

[mrmallard]

What premium over the bullion value would you be expected to pay for this tat?

The best return I've found when you consider premium and selling cost is a 3% hike in the gold price to cover your costs.
At £79 or £632 for 8 you can have a sovereign for £600. None of it makes sense.

[f8met]

One of the youtube videos I have seen is from a US pawn shop where they say stop buying the rubbish coins you see advertised on TV. They are worth a fraction of what they sell them for and are not even collectable to make them worth more than the bullion.

They said that the families of recently deceased relations take them to the shop expecting to cash in only to find them being offered a fraction of what they were bought for. The relatives thought they were doing them a favour by "investing" in the coins when in reality they would have been better putting the money under the mattress

[Fusion]

Just for interest, I found this page on Chards website, detailing the alloy composition of a sample of various Sovereigns over the years:
https://www.chards.co.uk/guides/analysi ... reigns/180

Notice older Victorian-era Sovereigns did have some silver in them.