Rosary terminal ? Mystery copper alloy NOT Union Jack INRI crucifix/cross

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Rosary terminal ? Mystery copper alloy NOT Union Jack INRI crucifix/cross

Post by Lowland » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:16 pm

Hi all
Here’s another find from last weekend...
I’m kinda hoping somebody recognises it
There’s a lot of crosses come up on google searches x;
One pence for scale.
Copper alloy cross/crucifix-with a Union Jack incorporated Into the design.
The letters at the top are INRI
Which translates as -‘Jesus the Nazarene,king of the jews’
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus,_King_of_the_Jews
There is writing on the reverse running across the cross-first letters are ‘so....’
Or ‘sc....’
And vertically too...
Sadly it’s un-readable-it would have cracked the case .
My thoughts are a medallion for a benevolent society from late victorian/Edwardian times?
Found in ploughsoil skirting the edges of a very noisy nightsoiled area
By GMP and nel tornado
Any ideas more than welcome
Cheers ::g
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Last edited by Lowland on Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:07 am, edited 2 times in total.


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Re: Mystery copper alloy Union Jack INRI crucifix/cross

Post by Swany » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:19 pm

Nice looking find, not sure of age 19th century maybe, I'm probably wrong though, hopefully someone will be along to offer more info. ::g

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Re: Mystery copper alloy Union Jack INRI crucifix/cross

Post by Lowland » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:18 pm

Swany wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:19 pm
Nice looking find, not sure of age 19th century maybe, I'm probably wrong though, hopefully someone will be along to offer more info. ::g
Hey Swany!
It’s definitely got the late victorian/Edwardian look -
And a story behind it
Might never find a match-drives me bananas.
::g
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Re: Mystery copper alloy Union Jack INRI crucifix/cross

Post by Saki » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:40 pm

Hey Lowland, nice find. I dont think that is a Union Jack. It would most probably be a sunburst design. The design of your cross seems to be longer "arms" . This type was used by St. Anthony. But St. Benedict always had "The way of the cross" on the back of his cross pendants in letter symbols.
Is it only SA that you see?
Any other letters?
Also, do you think there was a "figure" on it?
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Re: Mystery copper alloy Union Jack INRI crucifix/cross

Post by Easylife » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:58 pm

Lowland wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:16 pm
There is writing on the reverse running across the cross-first letters are ‘so....’
Or ‘sc....’
And vertically too...
Sadly it’s un-readable-it would have cracked the case .
Well, I see horizontally on the back "JESUS SCA..."
And vertically reading down "IGN" x;
Looks like a sunburst behind the cross.
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Re: Mystery copper alloy Union Jack INRI crucifix/cross

Post by Saki » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:56 pm

Easylife wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:58 pm
Lowland wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:16 pm
There is writing on the reverse running across the cross-first letters are ‘so....’
Or ‘sc....’
And vertically too...
Sadly it’s un-readable-it would have cracked the case .
Well, I see horizontally on the back "JESUS SCA..."
And vertically reading down "IGN" x;
Looks like a sunburst behind the cross.
The "IGN" may be...

"in hoc signo vinces"

Which makes this a very interesting cross. Because it is now linked to being either a Masonic cross or Templars.
And being in Scotland, it makes a lot of sense.
Funny how a simple copper alloy cross could be so interesting....
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Re: Mystery copper alloy Union Jack INRI crucifix/cross

Post by Lowland » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:05 pm

Saki wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:40 pm
Hey Lowland, nice find. I dont think that is a Union Jack. It would most probably be a sunburst design. The design of your cross seems to be longer "arms" . This type was used by St. Anthony. But St. Benedict always had "The way of the cross" on the back of his cross pendants in letter symbols.
Is it only SA that you see?
Any other letters?
Also, do you think there was a "figure" on it?
Aha
Sunburst or dumburst ;))
What a muppet I am.
And yes I can see little attachment raised areas
On the horizontal
And possibly on the bottom of the vertical.

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::g
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Re: Mystery copper alloy Union Jack INRI crucifix/cross

Post by Lowland » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:06 pm

Easylife wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:58 pm
Lowland wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:16 pm
There is writing on the reverse running across the cross-first letters are ‘so....’
Or ‘sc....’
And vertically too...
Sadly it’s un-readable-it would have cracked the case .
Well, I see horizontally on the back "JESUS SCA..."
And vertically reading down "IGN" x;
Looks like a sunburst behind the cross.
Hi easy life
You could be right-my eyes are rubbish
Will do some more squinting.
And aye
Sunburst(slaps forehead)
:D
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Re: Mystery copper alloy Union Jack INRI crucifix/cross

Post by Ladybird66 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:20 pm

I’ve just spent the last couple of hours, in between doing other things looking for a similar cross.
I knew the Sunburst was there, but have you noticed there are probably heads on the ends of the arms. To me this means it’s quite a bit older than suggested.
It’s buzzing around at the back of my mind that the date might be Medieval. There was a period when it was a practice to have Mary or Saints on the cross, usualy on the back but sometimes the front.
Intriguing item. The way my brain works these days I’ll remember the details next month !
I’d say it’s one to record. At least they’ll have some answers.

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Re: Mystery copper alloy Union Jack INRI crucifix/cross

Post by Easylife » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:37 pm

It would probably read all the way across.
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Re: Mystery copper alloy Union Jack INRI crucifix/cross

Post by Lowland » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:58 pm

Ladybird66 wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:20 pm
I’ve just spent the last couple of hours, in between doing other things looking for a similar cross.
I knew the Sunburst was there, but have you noticed there are probably heads on the ends of the arms. To me this means it’s quite a bit older than suggested.
It’s buzzing around at the back of my mind that the date might be Medieval. There was a period when it was a practice to have Mary or Saints on the cross, usualy on the back but sometimes the front.
Intriguing item. The way my brain works these days I’ll remember the details next month !
I’d say it’s one to record. At least they’ll have some answers.
Hi ladybird
I would say 100 % you are right about the heads
One either side of the horizontal.
Good eye-from a photo :D
Wow
I really appreciate you giving this the once over with your eagle eyes
::g
Will try some new photos tonight!
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Re: Mystery copper alloy Union Jack INRI crucifix/cross

Post by Lowland » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:06 am

Easylife wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:37 pm
It would probably read all the way across.
I definitely see your angle-
now you put it like that ::g
Cheers easylife!
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Re: Mystery copper alloy NOT Union Jack INRI crucifix/cross

Post by Lowland » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:30 am

Here’s pictures of the two heads (great ladybird66 spot)
One at either end of the horizontal part of the cross
And the rough sticking up bit where arms possibly :D would have been attached.
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Re: Mystery copper alloy NOT Union Jack INRI crucifix/cross

Post by Lowland » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:39 am

And
Stop press....
A star decoration around the suspension loop.
Tsk tsk
I must look at items more thoroughly in the first place
(Repeat a hundred times)
And also a large sized reverse S shape
Right in the middle on the reverse
:-/
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Re: Mystery copper alloy NOT Union Jack INRI crucifix/cross

Post by Ladybird66 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:45 am

It’s a shame it’s so badly corroded. But the corrosion suggests it’s poss Bronze. I just wish I could remember exactly what the outcome was on the one that was found. It’s a few years ago but I do remember seeing it. That one had figures on the back.
You need to get some pics off to your treasure people. (You are up north ?) they’re sure to know something about it.
We’re just guessing and I could be totally wrong. Have you had a look on PAS database ?
If I remember anything else I’ll let you know.

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Re: Mystery copper alloy NOT Union Jack INRI crucifix/cross

Post by Lowland » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:49 am

This is s good read on the usage of INRI
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/INRI
::g
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Re: Mystery copper alloy NOT Union Jack INRI crucifix/cross

Post by Lowland » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:52 am

Ladybird66 wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:45 am
It’s a shame it’s so badly corroded. But the corrosion suggests it’s poss Bronze. I just wish I could remember exactly what the outcome was on the one that was found. It’s a few years ago but I do remember seeing it. That one had figures on the back.
You need to get some pics off to your treasure people. (You are up north ?) they’re sure to know something about it.
We’re just guessing and I could be totally wrong. Have you had a look on PAS database ?
If I remember anything else I’ll let you know.
It was driving me crackers before ladybird
Now -well- I’m still up ::g
Great stuff
And good advice!
>:D<
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Re: Mystery copper alloy NOT Union Jack INRI crucifix/cross

Post by Lowland » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:00 am

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Re: Mystery copper alloy NOT Union Jack INRI crucifix/cross

Post by Lowland » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:13 am

After scratching about on the internet
...looks like it could a rosary terminal?
::g
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Re: Mystery copper alloy NOT Union Jack INRI crucifix/cross

Post by fred » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:29 am

Well done. Nice rosary cross. Google sunburst rosary cross to see a few more. Judging by the lettering I would have thought 18thC or later but it's all in how it feels. ::g
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Re: Mystery copper alloy NOT Union Jack INRI crucifix/cross

Post by Lowland » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:35 am

fred wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:29 am
Well done. Nice rosary cross. Google sunburst rosary cross to see a few more. ::g
Cheers Fred!
The word ‘sunburst’ is firmly stuffed into my brain now!
It’s been a lovely wee thing in its day
And still has character
::g
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Re: Rosary terminal ? Mystery copper alloy NOT Union Jack INRI crucifix/cross

Post by Ladybird66 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:50 am

Well just to confuse the issue :( I’ve tracked down the idea of saints added to the cross terminals to about the 14th cent.
But found something to contradict that when I found a reference to the reverse of the cross. JESUS SAVES. These two words overlap, one up, one across the arms of the cross, could be the ‘SA’ you said you could see.
That addition seems to be fairly modern, 1800’s to present.
I need to correct my thought that the metal is bronze. Try copper alloy.
Contradictions can only be assessed by reporting. Get to it, today. Before we go ‘cross’ eyed looking x;

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Re: Rosary terminal ? Mystery copper alloy NOT Union Jack INRI crucifix/cross

Post by Lowland » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:40 pm

Ladybird66 wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:50 am
Well just to confuse the issue :( I’ve tracked down the idea of saints added to the cross terminals to about the 14th cent.
But found something to contradict that when I found a reference to the reverse of the cross. JESUS SAVES. These two words overlap, one up, one across the arms of the cross, could be the ‘SA’ you said you could see.
That addition seems to be fairly modern, 1800’s to present.
I need to correct my thought that the metal is bronze. Try copper alloy.
Contradictions can only be assessed by reporting. Get to it, today. Before we go ‘cross’ eyed looking x;
Hey ladybird
That’s interesting information
Thank you
I am going to stare at the back some more
And get it looked at.
Definately copper alloy by the way ::g
Cheers
:)
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