Nox 800 What Am I Doing Wrong??

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Nox 800 What Am I Doing Wrong??

Post by skythepig » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:49 pm

Hi after 15 years using a Sovereign Elite I took the plunge several months ago and jumped on the Equinox band wagon.
I have mainly been doing beach detecting so the recent move to land with the Nox has been a learning curve.. but I feel I am getting something wrong.
I have some new field permissions which have never been detected as as far as the owner knows.
I have been out today and tried Field 1 & 2 first without then later with All metal mode, but am now confused with what the Nox is trying to tell me.
Sweeping along I get a clear hi signal along with a lower non ferrous tone, ID 21 then -4 alternating. I dig the signal in case it is something good next to iron.
After digging down to 10 inches, 4 of which are rock hard I dig up the nail with the round top (bottom left) I am now confused, re check hole no other signals :-/
Why is a ferrous nail giving a hi tone 21 id signal.
I try sweeping with All Metal on. No signals to low tone -4, -8 -4 -8 then bleep high 15. Dig again the hook shaped piece of iron.
Couple of questions: Does this mean for this field I need to change the iron bias up from the default zero to dig less iron?
If for example you get say a high tone ID15 or higher in Field 1 then switch on All Metal and it flashes between a low tone -4 and high tone ID15 does this mean it is a ferrous item and ignore it or do I dig it?
Sorry if this seems really basic questions, but I am finding the transfer from beach to land frustrating with the Nox and could do with some help in where I am going wrong.
This is a picture of todays finds..sorry about the quality as it is more to show what sort of rubbish I am digging rather that identifying the items. Ferrous items checked with magnet are on the left, non ferrous on right of line.
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Re: Nox 800 What Am I Doing Wrong??

Post by rustek69 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:04 pm

hi there if you are doing fields or inland detecting the iron bias should not be on zero as you will hear the iron and also dig the iron iron bias should be set to 2 if not much iron and set to 3 if loads of iron I'm doing roman sites with loads of iron present and we are getting away with using iron bias set at 2 any that should help mate stop digging iron :D

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Re: Nox 800 What Am I Doing Wrong??

Post by fred » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:12 pm

rustek69 wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:04 pm
hi there if you are doing fields or inland detecting the iron bias should not be on zero as you will hear the iron and also dig the iron iron bias should be set to 2 if not much iron and set to 3 if loads of iron I'm doing roman sites with loads of iron present and we are getting away with using iron bias set at 2 any that should help mate stop digging iron :D
Exactly. The preset modes are unsuitable for use on many/most UK fields without upping the iron bias. Plenty already written about this. ::g

As far as interpreting the signals go you are on the right track. It is not enough to simply get a high number somewhere amongst the negatives though. You also need to be able to lock on to the high number and the sound that you lock on to must be a nice rounded signal not a sudden jump. Locking onto small targets amongst junk depends upon mastering the 'Minelab wriggle' and for better interpretation of signals I use 50 tones rather than any of the other options. Once you have sorted this out and got some Nox time under your belt you won't really need to change frequencies to ID most iron.

Best of luck ::g
Last edited by fred on Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nox 800 What Am I Doing Wrong??

Post by rustek69 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:24 pm

i think detectorists what have bought the nox haven't given them selves enough time to use them,also you really do need to read the manual a few times to get an understanding of what the setting are and used for once ppl get to grips with the machine they will love it as i think many do,if they are not sure may be ask a friend or someone on a rally or club dig to set it up for them it only takes a couple of minutes to do.ive been using a t2ltd for over 8years and i must say as much as i loved my t2 i won't be going back to one, times change and technology moves on ::g

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Re: Nox 800 What Am I Doing Wrong??

Post by skythepig » Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:12 pm

Thanks Rustek and Fred. I am glad i had a rough understanding of the iron bias setting in relation to my fields so will give that a try. I know this comes down to hours under the belt and like you I don't want to go back to the old Elite so will continue swinging.
I have read the manual more times than is healthy but this old brain seems to have a knowledge retention leak so have open copies of it on a laptop, ipad and mobile...a bit over the top I know.
For all I know these fields might be full of junk but you never know after thousands of years of farming some things must get left behind that's why we all love this hobby :;@
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Re: Nox 800 What Am I Doing Wrong??

Post by werewhelk » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:46 am

fred wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:12 pm
It is not enough to simply get a high number somewhere amongst the negatives though. You also need to be able to lock on to the high number and the sound that you lock on to must be a nice rounded signal not a sudden jump.
That sounds like a great bit of advice Fred, I think it's probably where I've been going a bit wrong too, so I will try putting that into practice ::g ::g
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Re: Nox 800 What Am I Doing Wrong??

Post by skythepig » Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:38 pm

Did some testing this morning with the iron junk (nails etc) I picked up yesterday and with a half sovereign (always hopeful) lined up on clean ground.
Used Field 1, set 50 tones, Iron Bias 3.
It will ignore the nails on their own, great.
As expected It gives a very clear audio signal on the half sovereign on its own and locks on ID 15..even better
But put the nail (2 inches) next to the sovereign and the behavior changes which is where I am getting confused.
It will no longer lock onto the sovereign there is a high pitched tone with an immediate lower tone but not a ferrous low tone. The ID jumps from 4 to 15 but will not lock on to either tone so I would make the mistake of not digging this signal?
Tried turning 90% and although signals appear to be slightly further apart, still no lock on signal. I then tried the wiggle and it still doesn't lock but did notice the strongest audio moves the pinpoint point from centre to just in front on the Equinox 11 sticker.
If i use the Nox pinpoint function it does not signal anything until the coil is clear of the nail and the sovereign is right on the edge of the coil where the little arrow head marker is?
The fields I have seem to have a lot of iron junk and the Nox is providing very un-clear (to me) signals in this sort of site and fails to lock on. Been through the manual again but don't think I am missing anything obvious unless someone on here can tell me otherwise...please
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Re: Nox 800 What Am I Doing Wrong??

Post by Tippercow » Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:41 pm

I am completely new to metal detecting and decided to go with the Equinox 800 rather than upgrade later. You might think that might be a tough way to learn and you may be right but I don't have the distraction of being competent with another detector to further confuse me. I was digging a lot of iron to begin with but now re check a potential dig signal at 90 degrees and again with a 10khz single frequency. I also find that if I consult the manual after a dig, some of the more confusing/hard to understand stuff starts to make sense. I doubt if many people will get to grips with the Equinox after 5, 10 or even 20 hours use but its fun trying. ;)

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Re: Nox 800 What Am I Doing Wrong??

Post by fred » Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:45 pm

skythepig wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:38 pm
Did some testing this morning with the iron junk (nails etc) I picked up yesterday and with a half sovereign (always hopeful) lined up on clean ground.
Used Field 1, set 50 tones, Iron Bias 3.
It will ignore the nails on their own, great.
As expected It gives a very clear audio signal on the half sovereign on its own and locks on ID 15..even better
But put the nail (2 inches) next to the sovereign and the behavior changes which is where I am getting confused.
It will no longer lock onto the sovereign there is a high pitched tone with an immediate lower tone but not a ferrous low tone. The ID jumps from 4 to 15 but will not lock on to either tone so I would make the mistake of not digging this signal?
Tried turning 90% and although signals appear to be slightly further apart, still no lock on signal. I then tried the wiggle and it still doesn't lock but did notice the strongest audio moves the pinpoint point from centre to just in front on the Equinox 11 sticker.
If i use the Nox pinpoint function it does not signal anything until the coil is clear of the nail and the sovereign is right on the edge of the coil where the little arrow head marker is?
The fields I have seem to have a lot of iron junk and the Nox is providing very un-clear (to me) signals in this sort of site and fails to lock on. Been through the manual again but don't think I am missing anything obvious unless someone on here can tell me otherwise...please
A low conductor like a gold half sovereign is a pig of a target to use for this test. At least use something silver to start with! :D Also nails vary considerably in composition. Some seem almost impossible to ignore with any degree of confidence.

Try playing with the Recovery Speed and see what happens. Remember that as you increase the Recovery Speed the depth decreases.

Some Composite signals, i.e. from more than one target in the same location, can be a tad confusing until you get used to them and there are practical limits to what can actually be separated. With experience you should get to know what those limits are and what your machine is telling you. Once you can recognise unusual responses you can make the call to dig or ignore them as you see fit. That's all part of the fun (allegedly)! ::g
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Re: Nox 800 What Am I Doing Wrong??

Post by skythepig » Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:58 pm

Thanks Fred will play with recovery speed. Any loss of depth wont be a problem at moment as any deeper than approx 8 inches is like digging concrete in the fields round here. Need some more rain.
Will try the experiment again with some silver to see how I get on, but thanks again for all the help.
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Re: Nox 800 What Am I Doing Wrong??

Post by Phil2401 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:07 pm

Tippercow wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:41 pm
I am completely new to metal detecting and decided to go with the Equinox 800 rather than upgrade later. You might think that might be a tough way to learn and you may be right but I don't have the distraction of being competent with another detector to further confuse me. I was digging a lot of iron to begin with but now re check a potential dig signal at 90 degrees and again with a 10khz single frequency. I also find that if I consult the manual after a dig, some of the more confusing/hard to understand stuff starts to make sense. I doubt if many people will get to grips with the Equinox after 5, 10 or even 20 hours use but its fun trying. ;)
Well, the advertising blurb does suggest that the default settings make the machine suitable for beginners as well as experts. You're absolutely right - it will take time to understand and get used to the settings that work for you in various circumstances - the same is true of all machines, cheap or expensive. Keep enjoying it and let us see your finds :)

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Re: Nox 800 What Am I Doing Wrong??

Post by fred » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:44 pm

Phil2401 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:07 pm
Tippercow wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:41 pm
I am completely new to metal detecting and decided to go with the Equinox 800 rather than upgrade later. You might think that might be a tough way to learn and you may be right but I don't have the distraction of being competent with another detector to further confuse me. I was digging a lot of iron to begin with but now re check a potential dig signal at 90 degrees and again with a 10khz single frequency. I also find that if I consult the manual after a dig, some of the more confusing/hard to understand stuff starts to make sense. I doubt if many people will get to grips with the Equinox after 5, 10 or even 20 hours use but its fun trying. ;)
Well, the advertising blurb does suggest that the default settings make the machine suitable for beginners as well as experts. You're absolutely right - it will take time to understand and get used to the settings that work for you in various circumstances - the same is true of all machines, cheap or expensive. Keep enjoying it and let us see your finds :)

Phil
I think that the advertising blurb was primarily aimed at the US and Australian markets where they haven't had the benefit of 2,000 plus years of iron junk going into the soil. :D The Preset Modes are not that bad and can be used in the UK but, in my opinion, they are oversensitive to iron and the Recovery Speed is unnecessarily high for most UK situations. As far as I can see most experienced US detectorists who post on Youtube set up more or less as we do anyway. ::g
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Re: Nox 800 What Am I Doing Wrong??

Post by Dangerous Norman » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:36 am

I have just got a Nox 800 and rereading the manual till my brain freezes. I'm struggling with some of the terminology an why it is used in what appears to be the opposite way to how I would expect.

For instance, Iron Bias. Now I would think that 0 (zero) was no bias and 3 would be Biased TOWARDS iron but from what people are saying it's Biased AWAY from iron thereby ignoring it to some extent. Is the correct?

I can't get my head around how Ground Balance works and what it does.

Yes it will take several hours use to learn how to use it well and what all the setting do and how to use it so maybe it will be less of doing something wrong and more of not doing it the best way.

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Re: Nox 800 What Am I Doing Wrong??

Post by Raymond » Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:54 pm

Hi Norman
These are my settings ( not saying they're right but works for me)
Recovery 4-5 depending on how clean the ground is.
Iron bias 2-3
Sensitivity 23 or as high as you can without falsing
Ground balance 0
5 tones
Field 1
The nox is quite a easy machine to get your head around,get out in the field and practice you will not be disappointed,I have used many different machines and I have to say for my type of hunting ie coins & relics inland this thing is an animal!!even with the extreme dry weather over the last two months my hammy count has rocketed! It loves the small stuff quarters and Half's and whatever else is hiding there!!
So get out and enjoy your new toy hope this helps.
Raymond ::g

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Re: Nox 800 What Am I Doing Wrong??

Post by Dangerous Norman » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:57 pm

Raymond wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:54 pm
Hi Norman
These are my settings ( not saying they're right but works for me)
Recovery 4-5 depending on how clean the ground is.
Iron bias 2-3
Sensitivity 23 or as high as you can without falsing
Ground balance 0
5 tones
Field 1
The nox is quite a easy machine to get your head around,get out in the field and practice you will not be disappointed,I have used many different machines and I have to say for my type of hunting ie coins & relics inland this thing is an animal!!even with the extreme dry weather over the last two months my hammy count has rocketed! It loves the small stuff quarters and Half's and whatever else is hiding there!!
So get out and enjoy your new toy hope this helps.
Raymond ::g
Thanks for the info. I'm making a list of the programs people use to try at some stage. I only have one permission and that has to be finalised then one the livestock are taken off I can detect it.

Been out today for the first time but only on the beach. Not a lot found.I have a few of questions if you could answer them I'd be grateful.

1: I had a lot of chirps/beeps which were very quiet (beach 1), usually if put in to ALL METAL (horseshoe) I would get the iron low tone plus the chirps/beeps, depth gauge was at max. and if I dug them I dug deep and still didn't reach the target. Would that be large scrap and best not dug? (beach is scrappy).

2: I'm used to hearing the low background hum on the Safari but this is not present on the nox 800. Is it best left 'as is' or should I adjust the threshold to hear it?

3: Using the pinpoint function I sometimes get the audio at reduced volume (75% or less at a guess) but no segments, is this normal as most times the pinpoint works as I expect it?

4: Sometimes I get a find tone but no ID numbers show or they do show but the depth gauge doesn't show, These do tend to be one way tones or one alignment (get tone but it goes when turning 90 degrees to detect it). again is this normal.

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Re: Nox 800 What Am I Doing Wrong??

Post by werewhelk » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:13 pm

wrote:"For instance, Iron Bias. Now I would think that 0 (zero) was no bias and 3 would be Biased TOWARDS iron but from what people are saying it's Biased AWAY from iron thereby ignoring it to some extent. Is the correct?
Hi, you're correct that the bias is TOWARDS iron (so an iffy signal is more likely to be detected as iron). This means that if you are using the machine in a mode that discriminates out (ignores) iron signals, then it follows that the higher the iron bias, the more you will ignore... If that makes sense.
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Re: Nox 800 What Am I Doing Wrong??

Post by Saffron » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:33 pm

Regarding references to reading the manual several times and memory leaks (we all have them and I find they become more frequent the older I get), having a copy on your smart phone is great but that does not help you to learn and REMEMBER.
I suggest going back to the school / university exam revision method - WRITE DOWN the main bullet points ..... it is a known fact that you remember things that you write down better than those you just read.
You could even write them in a small notebook / diary and take with you when detecting.

Evan

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Re: Nox 800 What Am I Doing Wrong??

Post by fred » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:38 pm

Dangerous Norman wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:57 pm
Raymond wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:54 pm
Hi Norman
These are my settings ( not saying they're right but works for me)
Recovery 4-5 depending on how clean the ground is.
Iron bias 2-3
Sensitivity 23 or as high as you can without falsing
Ground balance 0
5 tones
Field 1
The nox is quite a easy machine to get your head around,get out in the field and practice you will not be disappointed,I have used many different machines and I have to say for my type of hunting ie coins & relics inland this thing is an animal!!even with the extreme dry weather over the last two months my hammy count has rocketed! It loves the small stuff quarters and Half's and whatever else is hiding there!!
So get out and enjoy your new toy hope this helps.
Raymond ::g
Thanks for the info. I'm making a list of the programs people use to try at some stage. I only have one permission and that has to be finalised then one the livestock are taken off I can detect it.

Been out today for the first time but only on the beach. Not a lot found.I have a few of questions if you could answer them I'd be grateful.

1: I had a lot of chirps/beeps which were very quiet (beach 1), usually if put in to ALL METAL (horseshoe) I would get the iron low tone plus the chirps/beeps, depth gauge was at max. and if I dug them I dug deep and still didn't reach the target. Would that be large scrap and best not dug? (beach is scrappy).

2: I'm used to hearing the low background hum on the Safari but this is not present on the nox 800. Is it best left 'as is' or should I adjust the threshold to hear it?

3: Using the pinpoint function I sometimes get the audio at reduced volume (75% or less at a guess) but no segments, is this normal as most times the pinpoint works as I expect it?

4: Sometimes I get a find tone but no ID numbers show or they do show but the depth gauge doesn't show, These do tend to be one way tones or one alignment (get tone but it goes when turning 90 degrees to detect it). again is this normal.
1: Describing sounds is always difficult but provided that the machine is set up properly you may simply be hearing the iron, which perfectly normal. Make sure that you have the iron bias set on 2 or 3 if there is more than the occasional bit of iron about, even on the beach. You may have to ground balance on wet sand. Once that is done I've just posted about one way of reducing the sounds. If you think that the targets may be deep iron then you will have to get a bigger spade and prove a few before you decide to ignore them.

2: I would use a threshold because it gives me a reference point for the positive and negative sounds but you don't have to.

3: I seldom use the pinpoint function so I don't really feel qualified to comment. I would always go into pinpoint mode well away from the target and then swing the searchead to it. Turning on over the target may null it out.

4: Positive targets are generally unmissable. What you are describing sound a bit like 'hot rocks'. I have also noticed that the Nox, like other Minelabs will, will also detect off of the side of the coil. It may pick up large iron a foot or more away but these will not be regular signals. Again do a bit of digging around to try and establish the cause.

Best of luck. :D
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Re: Nox 800 What Am I Doing Wrong??

Post by fred » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:40 pm

Saffron wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:33 pm
Regarding references to reading the manual several times and memory leaks (we all have them and I find they become more frequent the older I get), having a copy on your smart phone is great but that does not help you to learn and REMEMBER.
I suggest going back to the school / university exam revision method - WRITE DOWN the main bullet points ..... it is a known fact that you remember things that you write down better than those you just read.
You could even write them in a small notebook / diary and take with you when detecting.

Evan
I learned it one step at a time by constant repetition. Expect the learning process to take time. ::g

PS Having a phone on when using a Nox can sometimes be a tad problematic.
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Re: Nox 800 What Am I Doing Wrong??

Post by Dangerous Norman » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:13 am

werewhelk wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:13 pm
wrote:"For instance, Iron Bias. Now I would think that 0 (zero) was no bias and 3 would be Biased TOWARDS iron but from what people are saying it's Biased AWAY from iron thereby ignoring it to some extent. Is the correct?
Hi, you're correct that the bias is TOWARDS iron (so an iffy signal is more likely to be detected as iron). This means that if you are using the machine in a mode that discriminates out (ignores) iron signals, then it follows that the higher the iron bias, the more you will ignore... If that makes sense.
Got you, it's biasing the interpretation of the signal towards iron from a "might be iron" to a "definitely probably iron so it must be iron".

Thanks for that.

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Re: Nox 800 What Am I Doing Wrong??

Post by Dangerous Norman » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:36 am

fred wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:38 pm

1: Describing sounds is always difficult but provided that the machine is set up properly you may simply be hearing the iron, which perfectly normal. Make sure that you have the iron bias set on 2 or 3 if there is more than the occasional bit of iron about, even on the beach. You may have to ground balance on wet sand. Once that is done I've just posted about one way of reducing the sounds. If you think that the targets may be deep iron then you will have to get a bigger spade and prove a few before you decide to ignore them.

2: I would use a threshold because it gives me a reference point for the positive and negative sounds but you don't have to.

3: I seldom use the pinpoint function so I don't really feel qualified to comment. I would always go into pinpoint mode well away from the target and then swing the searchead to it. Turning on over the target may null it out.

4: Positive targets are generally unmissable. What you are describing sound a bit like 'hot rocks'. I have also noticed that the Nox, like other Minelabs will, will also detect off of the side of the coil. It may pick up large iron a foot or more away but these will not be regular signals. Again do a bit of digging around to try and establish the cause.

Best of luck. :D
1: set up 'out of the box' at the moment and on beach 1 mode. I learned with the Safari deep iron sometimes give a higher tone than normal which I believe is down to corrosion etc. Maybe the same thing but a different tone to what I'm used to.

2:'Use a threshold', does that mean set it so I always hear a background hum like I'm used to?

3: I Always try to turn on away from a target but as no background hum/threshold I'M not always sure there is nothing there (Safari would go quiet/null if ground not clear) hence why I liked the background hum.

4: Not had enough 'positive targets' as yet but I do know pound coins and fifty pence pieces give a real good signal you can't miss.

Still don't really understand ground balance but you have given me some good info and understanding of what's going on and I can build on that.

Thanks Norman.

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Re: Nox 800 What Am I Doing Wrong??

Post by fred » Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:55 am

Yes, threshhold is the slight background hum.

One of the 'problems' with the Nox is that it is very sensitive indeed. I have been absolutely amazed at how small the pieces of nonferrous metal that it can pick up are. It will also go very deep on those small pieces too. The difficulty for me is often ignoring smaller signals to concentrate on the good stuff, which tend to give unmissable signals. I've now more or less got the hang of it on the beach but still tend to dig the smaller stuff on land. Probably just a legacy of the CTX where small signals were often deep keepers. ::g
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Re: Nox 800 What Am I Doing Wrong??

Post by Dangerous Norman » Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:43 am

fred wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:55 am
Yes, threshhold is the slight background hum.

One of the 'problems' with the Nox is that it is very sensitive indeed. I have been absolutely amazed at how small the pieces of nonferrous metal that it can pick up are. It will also go very deep on those small pieces too.
Yes I detected 2 items of scrap, both were down at 8-10 inches and no more than 5mm dia. and 2mm thick. in damp sand.

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