Deep/Tough Responses

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stupot
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Deep/Tough Responses

Post by stupot » Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:20 pm

Nothing untoward or detrimental, but have noticed that the deepest targets, say coins for example, change in their pitch & ID. A coin at the extreme range of the detector (using 50 tones) its numeric ID and tone increase well above its set values for the item. This also happens to targets that might be shallow but swamped with iron. Have noticed it only seems to happen thus far to coins or other high conductors not low ones.I actually like this as it can give more information than normal. What an interesting detector this is, it did this before the upgrade as well.



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Re: Deep/Tough Responses

Post by fred » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:29 pm

The signals on the Nox seem to remain very positive to about 10 inches or a foot on normal sized targets, a little less on very small bits. Beyond that if you are in All Metal the sound will become erratic and may become irony, spluttery or otherwise very dodgy and the numbers will then quickly start to degrade and perhaps bounce around or fail to lock on. If you haven't got All Metal on these signals may completely disappear as the programme doesn't see them as being positive targets. This is how Minelabs have always been one you reach the limit of the sound and ID numbers.

I have heard so suggestions about how to ID such targets by changing the frequency or adjusting settings but I suspect most people won't want to faff about. Unfortunately that suggests to me that the only way to sort out what iffy signals to dig is through experience. :D
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Re: Deep/Tough Responses

Post by stupot » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:51 pm

Quite agree Fred. I find it somewhat different with the 800 with this oddity. If an old penny reads 25 ID and medium tone in clean ground to 10" after that down to 12" it reads 35+ and pitch another step higher up again. As soon as its disturbed closer with the spade all returns to normal. This is the opposite of the norm on deep items on previous detectors including 3030.

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Re: Deep/Tough Responses

Post by Easylife » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:01 pm

stupot wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:51 pm
Quite agree Fred. I find it somewhat different with the 800 with this oddity. If an old penny reads 25 ID and medium tone in clean ground to 10" after that down to 12" it reads 35+ and pitch another step higher up again. As soon as its disturbed closer with the spade all returns to normal. This is the opposite of the norm on deep items on previous detectors including 3030.
Yep, I had the same with a large lead weight at 11", went up to 36 whilst digging then back to 24. :D
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Re: Deep/Tough Responses

Post by fred » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:04 pm

stupot wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:51 pm
Quite agree Fred. I find it somewhat different with the 800 with this oddity. If an old penny reads 25 ID and medium tone in clean ground to 10" after that down to 12" it reads 35+ and pitch another step higher up again. As soon as its disturbed closer with the spade all returns to normal. This is the opposite of the norm on deep items on previous detectors including 3030.

It's even worse on the beach. I used to get an iffy signal with the 3030, take out a spit then chase it if the signal got a bit better. With the 3030 most iffy signals just disappear with the first spit and you just have to keep digging until it reappears. On the positive side with the Nox most narrow iffy signals are actually genuine targets so the act of faith is likely to be worth it. ::g
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Re: Deep/Tough Responses

Post by Ten pence! » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:20 pm

stupot wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:20 pm
Nothing untoward or detrimental, but have noticed that the deepest targets, say coins for example, change in their pitch & ID. A coin at the extreme range of the detector (using 50 tones) its numeric ID and tone increase well above its set values for the item. This also happens to targets that might be shallow but swamped with iron. Have noticed it only seems to happen thus far to coins or other high conductors not low ones.I actually like this as it can give more information than normal. What an interesting detector this is, it did this before the upgrade as well.
Switch the iron bias to zero and this will not happen, the machine will also hit good targets in iron better if used in conjunction with a faster recovery speed, deep, big iron will alternately high tone and false this saving some digging.

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Re: Deep/Tough Responses

Post by fred » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:57 pm

Ten pence! wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:20 pm
stupot wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:20 pm
Nothing untoward or detrimental, but have noticed that the deepest targets, say coins for example, change in their pitch & ID. A coin at the extreme range of the detector (using 50 tones) its numeric ID and tone increase well above its set values for the item. This also happens to targets that might be shallow but swamped with iron. Have noticed it only seems to happen thus far to coins or other high conductors not low ones.I actually like this as it can give more information than normal. What an interesting detector this is, it did this before the upgrade as well.
Switch the iron bias to zero and this will not happen, the machine will also hit good targets in iron better if used in conjunction with a faster recovery speed, deep, big iron will alternately high tone and false this saving some digging.

Thanks for posting.

I gave these settings a go this morning on well hammered pasture and it was interesting. I winkled out a small piece of silver and a fair number of buttons and the usual bits and bobs up to about 8 inches. To my surprise I had no serious problem with iron although I did notice that several of the good targets also had iron or coke down the hole, which is probably why they were missed by my usual programme using a lower response speed. What I also noticed was that I wasn't getting any seriously deep targets, which is almost all that I usually get on this land.

I will persevere with this a while longer to try and understand what is happening. ::g
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Re: Deep/Tough Responses

Post by Ten pence! » Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:15 pm

If you bump up the iron bias you mask some good targets as the machine begins to cancel out the ferrous signals, now if you also run a slow recovery speed you'll further hinder the machine in separating good from bad targets that are in close proximity, it's fair to say both these settings work in conjunction with each other. Coming from fast responding detectors (Racer2 & GMP) I had few problems adapting to these settings, in other words you train your ears for the more informative and subtle signals the machine will give if you set it up like this.

The other thing to keep in mind is you lose hardly, if any, depth, once your ears become accustomed to the sounds you can pick out really deep targets in the junk, they are often faint but due to the lack of iron bias and that faster recovery speed but they are usually repeatable and still give a digable signal was you walk the machine around the target.

I tried the following a few times on my 600, I got faint signals with the fastest recovery speed and zero iron bias, slowly upping the iron bias saw the signal break up or signal iron, slowly dropping the recovery speed also meant some targets got masked by either the ground or nearby iron, naturally the target became wider but you'd need to slow the swing speed to get it anyway, incidentally the targets turned out to be small lead or fragments of shotty shells, but one day it might be something better!

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Re: Deep/Tough Responses

Post by fred » Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:18 pm

Ten pence! wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:15 pm
If you bump up the iron bias you mask some good targets as the machine begins to cancel out the ferrous signals, now if you also run a slow recovery speed you'll further hinder the machine in separating good from bad targets that are in close proximity, it's fair to say both these settings work in conjunction with each other. Coming from fast responding detectors (Racer2 & GMP) I had few problems adapting to these settings, in other words you train your ears for the more informative and subtle signals the machine will give if you set it up like this.

The other thing to keep in mind is you lose hardly, if any, depth, once your ears become accustomed to the sounds you can pick out really deep targets in the junk, they are often faint but due to the lack of iron bias and that faster recovery speed but they are usually repeatable and still give a digable signal was you walk the machine around the target.

I tried the following a few times on my 600, I got faint signals with the fastest recovery speed and zero iron bias, slowly upping the iron bias saw the signal break up or signal iron, slowly dropping the recovery speed also meant some targets got masked by either the ground or nearby iron, naturally the target became wider but you'd need to slow the swing speed to get it anyway, incidentally the targets turned out to be small lead or fragments of shotty shells, but one day it might be something better!
Cheers. I'm certainly going to experiment a bit more anyway. This may be where the finer tuning of the 800 will come in handy. Thanks for the pointers. ::g
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Re: Deep/Tough Responses

Post by ICENI » Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:35 am

I have been recently running my Nox 600 at the beach with the 15 inch coil with iron bias set at 0 and recovery speed at 2 and found i am getting deeper targets pre 1946 sixpences , a 1941 half crown and a 9ct gold band all between 16 and 23 inches deep . These settings seem to work better in conjunction with the 15 inch coil and makes pin pointing more accurate .
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Re: Deep/Tough Responses

Post by Easylife » Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:15 am

On my old pasture I've been using a Recovery of 4 - 6 depending on the amount of iron contamination in search areas. A deep iffy target is a good one to experiment with setting adjustments to see which may improve it. Certainly on the cleaner ground with Iron bias at 0 it's no issue hearing the odd iron chirp as good targets stand out amongst them. Any settings will work anywhere to a degree though not ideal and perhaps less enjoyable. No matter what the detector finding the optimum settings for the particular ground conditions will increase it's capabilities and find a few more targets especially the deeper ones which are often the better older ones. Yesterday I happened to be just using the factory preset settings of Field 1 (apart from 50 tones) as it best suited my area of pasture with varying iron levels, though I do adjust recovery either way if feel the need. Maybe I'm lucky that I am able to run sensitivity at max 25 in my area? ::g
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