Unknown roman bronze object

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dirty mike
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Unknown roman bronze object

Post by dirty mike » Fri May 17, 2019 6:07 pm

Hey guys! I need help identifying this roman bronze object. Does somebody has any idea what this object could be? I found it in undisturbed (not sure if thats the correct term) grassland next to a roman site and it weighs 459 grams. Thx in advance! best regards mike
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Re: Unknown roman bronze object

Post by lonecoiler » Fri May 17, 2019 7:07 pm

This will drive me mad till someone ID's it. It is one of those that you are sure you know it, but part of your brain won't connect. :;@
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Re: Unknown roman bronze object

Post by liamnolan » Fri May 17, 2019 7:37 pm

Wrong era, but it initially looked like a cycle rear mudguard! liam rl;
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Re: Unknown roman bronze object

Post by dirty mike » Fri May 17, 2019 8:33 pm

@lonecoiler yea it looks kinda familiar but even archeologists coudnt find out what it is.
@liamnolan true lol *(:)#

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Re: Unknown roman bronze object

Post by Easylife » Fri May 17, 2019 8:56 pm

liamnolan wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 7:37 pm
Wrong era, but it initially looked like a cycle rear mudguard! liam rl;
Was my first impression also! :))
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Re: Unknown roman bronze object

Post by liamnolan » Fri May 17, 2019 8:59 pm

"First recorded evidence of roman cyclists in Britain" :))
Will probably be some one-off wotsit made for some specific domestic purpose long lost in the mists of time ... interesting to ponder over though, Liam OooO
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Re: Unknown roman bronze object

Post by fred » Fri May 17, 2019 9:02 pm

The lugs look like they should fit into leather. ::g
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Re: Unknown roman bronze object

Post by fred » Fri May 17, 2019 9:03 pm

liamnolan wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 8:59 pm
"First recorded evidence of roman cyclists in Britain" :))
Will probably be some one-off wotsit made for some specific domestic purpose long lost in the mists of time ... interesting to ponder over though, Liam OooO

Surely that's in Carry on Cleo? :D
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Re: Unknown roman bronze object

Post by Easylife » Fri May 17, 2019 9:08 pm

fred wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 9:02 pm
The lugs look like they should fit into leather. ::g
You mean where the mud flap fits on? :D
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Re: Unknown roman bronze object

Post by Easylife » Sat May 18, 2019 1:50 am

Hi Mike, Hope you don't mind the banter, It's certainly something quite interesting that just happens to have quite a resemblance to a mudguard of sorts, but I don't think that chariots had them. :D
It's a great find though whatever it actually is. ::g
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Re: Unknown roman bronze object

Post by Tomo » Sat May 18, 2019 5:40 am

Total longshot, but it did remind me of the lower jaw from a Celtic dragon horn.
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Re: Unknown roman bronze object

Post by fred » Sat May 18, 2019 7:48 am

I think the answers mostly illustrate the need to take it to your FLO! :D
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Re: Unknown roman bronze object

Post by Bors » Sat May 18, 2019 8:07 am

It looks to me like its been part of some sort of vessel sealer such as a decanter or jug where this would have been put around the top of the vessel over a sealing piece of say leather or wood slats even to be kept over the mouth of the vessel. It looks like it's been in two parts or possible three by the holes in the end which could be the "hinge" part. The other piece which would be an exact likeness as that one ,and when fitted onto the rim of the vessel (that's where the inward depression would attach to) the two ends with the Blobs on would be brought together with a rope or length of leather cord and tied to form the Top to be covered over , and to be sealed off from anything entering into the vessel .

That`s my guess or theory anyway! :D

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Re: Unknown roman bronze object

Post by Phil2401 » Sat May 18, 2019 8:30 am

Bors wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 8:07 am
It looks to me like its been part of some sort of vessel sealer such as a decanter or jug where this would have been put around the top of the vessel over a sealing piece of say leather or wood slats even to be kept over the mouth of the vessel. It looks like it's been in two parts or possible three by the holes in the end which could be the "hinge" part. The other piece which would be an exact likeness as that one ,and when fitted onto the rim of the vessel (that's where the inward depression would attach to) the two ends with the Blobs on would be brought together with a rope or length of leather cord and tied to form the Top to be covered over , and to be sealed off from anything entering into the vessel .

That`s my guess or theory anyway! :D
I was thinking along the same lines - the holes would have been the hinged end and the lugs used to tie the other end to whatever the object was (or to control its movement) - some sort of swivelling cap or cover - but for what? The inward depression suggests it was used for pouring something?

Too early in the morning to think too hard - I'm with Fred - let the FLO rack his / her brains :)

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Re: Unknown roman bronze object

Post by dirty mike » Sat May 18, 2019 9:47 am

Good morning! Thanks guys for your ideas and comments! A chariot mudgard would be awesome *(:)#
Here are some more pictures. At the litte holes you can see that the object apparently was adjusted in different angles from time to time. Maybe it really is some sort of vessel sealer.
I even thought about some sort of arm rest... best regards, mike
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Re: Unknown roman bronze object

Post by Koala » Sat May 18, 2019 9:57 am

looks like a machine guard. Pivots by the holes so you can change the belt/chain ?

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Re: Unknown roman bronze object

Post by Phil2401 » Sat May 18, 2019 11:34 am

Could it have been used in metal casting? ... molten metal poured from a crucible into the object, the angle being adjusted to regulate the speed of flow into the cast....more accurate and less wasteful than pouring into the mould direct from crucible?

Think I need to get out and do some detecting now..

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Re: Unknown roman bronze object

Post by Bors » Sat May 18, 2019 12:34 pm

Phil2401 wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 11:34 am
Could it have been used in metal casting? ... molten metal poured from a crucible into the object, the angle being adjusted to regulate the speed of flow into the cast....more accurate and less wasteful than pouring into the mould direct from crucible?

Think I need to get out and do some detecting now..

Phil
Not that I know anything major about casting techniques Phil, but wouldn`t molten metal affect the copper/alloy that artifact is made from, as in buckling it or even starting to melt it when molten metal was suggestedly poured through it?

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Re: Unknown roman bronze object

Post by Phil2401 » Sat May 18, 2019 1:26 pm

Bors wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 12:34 pm
Phil2401 wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 11:34 am
Could it have been used in metal casting? ... molten metal poured from a crucible into the object, the angle being adjusted to regulate the speed of flow into the cast....more accurate and less wasteful than pouring into the mould direct from crucible?

Think I need to get out and do some detecting now..

Phil
Not that I know anything major about casting techniques Phil, but wouldn`t molten metal affect the copper/alloy that artifact is made from, as in buckling it or even starting to melt it when molten metal was suggestedly poured through it?
I probably know even less than you, but I guess it would depend on what metal was being cast and their relative melting temperatures...

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Re: Unknown roman bronze object

Post by Oxgirl36 » Sat May 18, 2019 5:52 pm

That’s a lovely thing. Please tell us what you find out when you get it to the FLO cause I think it’ll be something special.

::g
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Re: Unknown roman bronze object

Post by dirty mike » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:12 am

Hey guys, i got the Object back from restauration today. It looks so pretty! :) But it remains an unsolved mystery... :-/ cheers!
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Re: Unknown roman bronze object

Post by shaggybfc » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:20 am

Looks nice. Did you get the FLO to have a look at this?
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Re: Unknown roman bronze object

Post by dirty mike » Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:03 pm

unfortunately we dont have FLO´s here in Austria. I showed it to an archaeologist but he had no idea what it could have been used for...

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Re: Unknown roman bronze object

Post by shaggybfc » Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:09 pm

Arh OK, I didn't realise you're in Austria. I missed your intro post.
Who did the restoration work, are there such people in Austria who offer this service?
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Re: Unknown roman bronze object

Post by dirty mike » Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:23 pm

the restoration work was done by a fellow detectorist/conservator. There are some people here in the metal detecting scene who offer such services.

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Re: Unknown roman bronze object

Post by dig-dog » Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:40 pm

Brake block holder for cart
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Re: Unknown roman bronze object

Post by Spearhead » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:00 pm

I am wondering if it's a rare form of Roman Batillum, an incense shovel. They are normally square but it could be artistic licence?
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Re: Unknown roman bronze object

Post by Ladybird66 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:28 am

Could it be, perhaps, Armour related ?

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