New Nox 800

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jgtuk
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New Nox 800

Post by jgtuk » Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:53 pm

Hi all,
I’ve wanted one of these since day one but have had surgery on both shoulders over the last two years so wanted to wait for the outcome. I’m almost fit again so pulled the plug last weekend.
So, I’ve previously had several versions of the Sovereign, a couple of Garretts, an XP GMP, a CS4PI and an XP Deus.
I can no longer use the sovereign (GT with WOT and a Detech 13) as it’s a tad too heavy :( ...
I’ve been using the Deus almost exclusively, a lovely, lightweight, well balanced machine. Works well inland and not bad on the beach either, I just don’t like the tones much...
Soooo, I played with the Nox on my testbed to familiarise myself with the basics and then went for a spin on the beach (using settings from Fred 👍)
What a lovely machine... I love the tones (great separation) and was amazed at how quiet it was on the beach. Decent pinpointing and good depth too.
Here’s the but.
It’s bottom heavy and I found myself with sore elbow and wrist after a couple of hours. I can’t quite work out exactly the problem, it just feels wrong.
I’m going to make a few adjustments and persevere as I love everything else about it.
Anyone else feel the same way?



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TheAndyA
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Re: New Nox 800

Post by TheAndyA » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:03 pm

Congratulations on getting the Equinox, a very nice machine. I wonder if shortening the stem will help at all?
www.youtube.com/c/terraenglandia
Minelab Equinox 800
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fred
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Re: New Nox 800

Post by fred » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:11 pm

TheAndyA wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:03 pm
Congratulations on getting the Equinox, a very nice machine. I wonder if shortening the stem will help at all?
I agree, shortening the stem by one or two notches makes a lot of difference. If you've been away from detecting for a while it might even just be a case of strenthening up those unused muscles! Best of luck. :D

PS In a month or two when it has all settled down you will be able to up the performance a little further. ::g
Equinox 800 x2

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Re: New Nox 800

Post by Easylife » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:17 pm

I agree that shortening the stem can make a huge difference. Another option is to get a carbon shaft that will save about 100 grams. Using a bungee sling will take all of the weight regardless, making it a breeze to swing with no fatigue at all. ::g
Nox 800, 15" coil & Garrett carrot.
White's TDI SL

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Re: New Nox 800

Post by Ladybird66 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:23 pm

Very best of luck with it jgtuk. I agree with your findings. Agree with Fred, if it feels unbalanced, just adjust the stem length a bit and don’t overdue the sessions.

I’m so short hubby has to drill another adjustment hole in the stem for me. :D makes all the difference. I’m sure you’re going to get on well with it and have some great finds. ::g

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Re: New Nox 800

Post by bazzerhut » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:58 pm

jgtuk wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:53 pm
It’s bottom heavy and I found myself with sore elbow and wrist after a couple of hours. I can’t quite work out exactly the problem, it just feels wrong.
I’m going to make a few adjustments and persevere as I love everything else about it.
Anyone else feel the same way?

I found the very same thing, but this made a big difference for me:

viewtopic.php?f=291&t=111974&p=989789#p989789

Barry
Equinox 800 / XP Deus

"We have left undug those things which we ought to have dug; And we have dug those things which we ought not to have dug; And there is no wealth in us."

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Re: New Nox 800

Post by InofftheRed » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:59 pm

If you are returning to detecting from a spell away from the hobby then it could also be a question of rebuilding muscles that have not been used for a while.
I returned to detecting after a few years with a Nox 800 and for the first outing I found that after a while I was switching from right handed operation to left hand to give elbow and wrist a rest. After a few trips out I can now detect for hours without any discomfort and i think it was just a question of building up unused muscles.

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Re: New Nox 800

Post by jgtuk » Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:04 pm

Wow... I thought it was just me :D
Thanks for the advice, I’m not about to give it up...
I’ll have a look at the suggestions and report back.
I’m fine with the weight and sure it’s a matter of adjustment (I am a little on the short side...)

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Re: New Nox 800

Post by Fusion » Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:03 am

One solution is to make an S-bend middle shaft, to move the coil forwards. I've seen some US-made custom builds, using rods for other machines like Whites in the middle. If you have engineering skills, you could make an offset coil ear device, so the lower rod joins the coil towards the rear end, like for example the well-known Teknetics 11"x7" coil ( T2, G2, Greek series etc ). That would achieve a similar effect.
Here's Lisa with a homebrew S-bend shaft, (with some nasty wrinkles on the bend):
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/08/30 ... 996569.jpg
Last edited by Fusion on Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New Nox 800

Post by Easylife » Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:17 am

Fusion wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:03 am
One solution is to make an S-bend middle shaft, to move the coil forwards. I've seen some US-made custom builds, using rods for other machines like Whites in the middle. If you have engineering skills, you could make an offset coil ear device, so the lower rod joins the coil towards the rear end, like for example the well-known Teknetics 11"x7" coil ( T2, G2, Greek series etc ). That would achieve a similar effect.
Wouldn't just adjusting a straight shaft place the coil in the same place to the same effect? x;
Nox 800, 15" coil & Garrett carrot.
White's TDI SL

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Re: New Nox 800

Post by Fusion » Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:26 am

No, it wouldn't.
I'm looking into making a new shaft for my Eqx, I'm considering a single-bend upper shaft, though the offset coil ears idea is going to be considered. Plus I don't care for the way it breaks down, it doesn't seem well thought out.

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Re: New Nox 800

Post by Easylife » Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:43 am

Fusion wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:26 am
No, it wouldn't.
I'm looking into making a new shaft for my Eqx, I'm considering a single-bend upper shaft, though the offset coil ears idea is going to be considered. Plus I don't care for the way it breaks down, it doesn't seem well thought out.
I guess that it's just the simple leverage effect of physics no matter how a shaft shape connects to the very same fixed points – Armrest, grip and coil mount? Surely the manufacturers would be quite savy if it was beneficial to their particular detector? x;
Nox 800, 15" coil & Garrett carrot.
White's TDI SL

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Re: New Nox 800

Post by Fusion » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:37 am

The problem is described in the first post, as "bottom heavy". The weight of the shaft is below the handgrip. Because the coil has central mounting ears, and is attached to a straight shaft, it too is below the handgrip. So it's rather like a pendulum, with your hand holding the suspension bar. When you change swing direction at the end of your sweep, the pendulum twists in your hand.

The solution involves cutting down the weight below your hand, and adding weight above your hand. Ideally there will be some 'sweet spot' , where the effects are balanced. A change in sweep direction will then just give 'left' or 'right' forces, but minimal 'hand twist' force.
S-bend shafts are probably the most effective, as they shift not only the coil weight, but most of the lower/middle shaft weight forwards. Single-bend shafts move the coil, and part of the shaft weight. Offset coil ears just move the coil.
A lighter shaft has some beneficial effect, and combined with offset coil ears would probably work well. Offset ears also help make the disassembled detector smaller, if you don't un-bolt the coil from the lower rod.

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littleboot
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Re: New Nox 800

Post by littleboot » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:37 am

I do think muscles do adjust to the requirements of different machines. In a way we have to adapt to each new machines physically as well as mentally and that bit is often forgotten. We are all different shapes and sizes and have different ways we are used to gripping and swinging and even walking. (My hubby is an ex-Navy man and 'rocks' from side to side as he swings. :) )
I also had a GMP and it took a while to adjust to that. So much so that I had a flare up of arthritis in my hand...in the end I found a new 'grip' and the problem resolved itself. Likewise with the Nox. Its taken 4 months to get a formula of how to hold and swing it that is comfortable for me. I actually prefer to lengthen rather than shorten the machine as it suits the way I search better and I am more comfortable that way.
Yes, you can alter things to help tweak the machine to better fit your existing 'style' which is a hangover from previous habitual use of something else. But equally it is useful to try and adapt yourself to the machine a tad. Its a bit like when hubby gets a new set of clubs...he can get shoulder and elbow problems at first.
I hope you find a solution that is comfortable going forward. But, as you say, the Nox is certainly worth the effort and is massive fun to use.
Equinox 600, GMP, wellies.

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Re: New Nox 800

Post by Fusion » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:56 am

Q:"You can alter .. the machine to better fit your existing 'style' , which is a hangover from previous habitual use of something else"
That's essentially my situation. My other machine is a Fisher F75, which has well-designed ergonomics, hence I'm used to something that 'works well'. So I immediately noticed the flaw in the Equinox. I'd seen others, on various forums, make comments about the Eqx ergonomics from early last year. When I re-read them, with detector in hand, they made sense.

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Re: New Nox 800

Post by fred » Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:30 pm

Fusion wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:56 am
Q:"You can alter .. the machine to better fit your existing 'style' , which is a hangover from previous habitual use of something else"
That's essentially my situation. My other machine is a Fisher F75, which has well-designed ergonomics, hence I'm used to something that 'works well'. So I immediately noticed the flaw in the Equinox. I'd seen others, on various forums, make comments about the Eqx ergonomics from early last year. When I re-read them, with detector in hand, they made sense.

It seems OK to me on hole 3 or 4 but coil heavy if I move it out to the maximum length for longer sweeps on the beach. The balance on any machine is always going to be a compromise because people are different heights and shapes and therefore affect the balance by setting the stem at different lengths to suit themselves. I'm not sure that the ergonomics could ever be exactly right for everybody. :-/
Equinox 800 x2

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Re: New Nox 800

Post by Bargeman » Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:00 pm

TheAndyA wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:03 pm
Congratulations on getting the Equinox, a very nice machine. I wonder if shortening the stem will help at all?

Also have you adjusted the arm cup position? I find my nox feels better with the arm cup down the shaft a little
::g



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Re: New Nox 800

Post by jgtuk » Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:25 pm

Bargeman wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:00 pm
TheAndyA wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:03 pm
Congratulations on getting the Equinox, a very nice machine. I wonder if shortening the stem will help at all?

Also have you adjusted the arm cup position? I find my nox feels better with the arm cup down the shaft a little
::g



BM [:)
I'm going to have a try with all the suggestions so far, starting with the easiest - minor adjustments to arm cup and shaft length.
Watch this space!!

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Re: New Nox 800

Post by jgtuk » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:37 pm

Well, I managed an hour on the beach this morning and another in the garden. The beach gave me a few coins including a couple of pre decimal and a “banana” token with Essex 3 token stamped on it.
The garden has been hammered by my other machines and the only clear patch is my testbed, the rest is iron waste. Or so I thought... I pulled a ring out at about 9” deep, laying on its side. About 2 inches below was a piece of an iron gate... I’ve posted pictures of the ring in another thread.

Anyway, last night I drilled a new hole for the armcup to be lowered, fitted a lead weight in the top and shortened the whole shaft a tad. This definitely feels a lot better.
I need to get out for a proper session to see if I can live with it or need to modify more.
Sadly I can’t get out until midweek now...

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Re: New Nox 800

Post by sweepstick47 » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:51 pm

It' be an exciting wait until you get out for a proper test drive following your 'adjustments'
Good Luck ::g Regards ss47
A disservice is no service at all.

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Re: New Nox 800

Post by jgtuk » Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:15 am

sweepstick47 wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:51 pm
It' be an exciting wait until you get out for a proper test drive following your 'adjustments'
Good Luck ::g Regards ss47
Is that an attempt at a positive spin :D :D

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Re: New Nox 800

Post by sweepstick47 » Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:31 am

......it's how I'd feel until getting out there for a trial run - Good Luck ::g Regards ss47
A disservice is no service at all.

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