Medallion

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Medallion

Post by Jellytussle » Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:03 pm

PUBLIC-CC62FAresize.jpg
This was cleaned up and identified by a friend as a commemorative medallion marking the accession of Joseph I and his wife Wilhelmina Amalia as Emperor & Empress of the Holy Roman Empire (which was in 1705, so it's older than it looks). That much is clear from the legible bits of the inscription in the exergue on the obverse. But I've been scratching my head over the inscription around the edge, and what is going on on the reverse - two eggs on a plinth?????.
As google will only take you so far, I thought I'd see if anyone on here has any bright ideas :-/
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Re: Medallion

Post by Danzigman » Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:43 pm

Hard to find anything about it,, So rare and nice find.. Do you have any links to similar
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Re: Medallion

Post by fred » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:13 pm

The shields of two families (or countries or whatever) united on an altar. :D

Here is one side of a similar medal but with a different reverse: https://www.nga.gov/collection/art-obje ... 23249.html

Whoops saki pipped me with the image of the head side. ::g
Last edited by fred on Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Medallion

Post by Saki » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:19 pm

Think this may be it...
https://www.nga.gov/collection/art-obje ... 23249.html

Edit.: Correction. It's only similiar x;
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Re: Medallion

Post by fred » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:34 pm

The description as an ascention medal may not be correct. The medal in the link was supposed to be dated 1699 whilst Joseph didn't become Holy Roman Enperor until 1705. The iconography certainly looks more like a marriage to me but it could also be a later medal using the same heads or perhaps even the date is wrong. :D
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Re: Medallion

Post by Phil2401 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:35 pm

Brilliant Saki! (and Fred beaten by a nose!) I've been trying to decipher the Latin translation but have only got as far as 'nothing thrives more than.... then it gets confusing about grandfathers and some such...
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Re: Medallion

Post by fred » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:44 pm

Phil2401 wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:35 pm
Brilliant Saki! (and Fred beaten by a nose!) I've been trying to decipher the Latin translation but have only got as far as 'nothing thrives more than.... then it gets confusing about grandfathers and some such...
They were probably related anyway, most were! :D
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Re: Medallion

Post by Phil2401 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:57 pm

fred wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:44 pm
Phil2401 wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:35 pm
Brilliant Saki! (and Fred beaten by a nose!) I've been trying to decipher the Latin translation but have only got as far as 'nothing thrives more than.... then it gets confusing about grandfathers and some such...
They were probably related anyway, most were! :D
Now that makes more sense - perhaps there was a belief that procreation between couples sharing the same grandfather is a good thing....haven't investigated whether or not they were related


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Re: Medallion

Post by Jellytussle » Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:18 pm

Thanks to everyone who's helped with this. I suppose it's possible that the NGA one is the 1705 accession, and mine is the 1699 marriage then? I'd love to know how it wound up in a Leicestershire field - perhaps a souvenir of the Grand Tour - there's a fairly posh Hall about 500 yds away.

If anyone speaks High German, this entry from an old book may be describing a similar medallion - the obverse latin looks the same as mine
Josephus.jpg
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Re: Medallion

Post by Danzigman » Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:39 am

Jellytussle wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:18 pm
Thanks to everyone who's helped with this. I suppose it's possible that the NGA one is the 1705 accession, and mine is the 1699 marriage then? I'd love to know how it wound up in a Leicestershire field - perhaps a souvenir of the Grand Tour - there's a fairly posh Hall about 500 yds away.

If anyone speaks High German, this entry from an old book may be describing a similar medallion - the obverse latin looks the same as mine
Josephus.jpg

Translation to English..

The Medal for the Marriage of the Roman King Joseph the First with Princess Wilhelmine Amalie of Lüneburg 1699
Verse: the breast pictures and similar portraits of jospeh roman 1 and the royal bride Wilhelmine Amalie with the caption: "NIL VIGET QVCIQVCA SIMILET AVET SECVNDVM" under: "JOSEPH ET WILHELMINA D. G. ROM. REX ET REGINA" (names drawn: P H M)

Reverse: the lightly dressed bride reaches amor from above 2 Crowns down; caption "DVPLICEM CYTHERERA CORONAM DAT" under: MDCXCVIIII. (Therefore again P. H. M.)
Handwriting "non deficit ex te vir, qui sedeat super Thronum Israel"; 1I par 6


The latin some one else must translate..
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Re: Medallion

Post by Phil2401 » Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:05 pm

Since I had nothing better to do, the first part of the German definitely says 'medal on the marriage of Joseph I and Wilhelmine Amelia of Buneberg (abbreviation of Brunswick Luneberg)'.

The rest obviously goes on to describe the obverse and reverse of the medal.

The last Latin bit (evidently around the edge of the reverse) roughly translates as 'the man who sits on the throne of Israel will not fail'....

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Re: Medallion

Post by Phil2401 » Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:06 pm

Ditto Danzigman! - you got up earlier than I did John :)

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Re: Medallion

Post by fred » Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:16 pm

The Latin translation is a biblical reference from Kings 1, 9.5. It reads something like ‘You will never fail to have a man on the throne of Israel.’ The exact words vary according to which version of the Bible it is taken from but probably the Latin Vulgate one (I think). It appears to be Josephs promise to his people to be a proper King for them.

In more modern terms the bit that John kindly translated reads 'the lifelike busts of Joseph 1 and the Wilhelmine Amalie, by the grace of God King and Queen of Rome.'.

The rest of the description suggests that the medal being described is the one in the link rather than this one. ::g
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Re: Medallion

Post by Phil2401 » Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:18 pm

fred wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:16 pm
The Latin translation is a biblical reference from Kings 1, 9.5. It reads something like ‘You will never fail to have a man on the throne of Israel.’ The exact words vary according to which version of the Bible it is taken from but probably the Latin Vulgate one (I think). It appears to be Josephs promise to his people to be a proper King for them.

In more modern terms the bit that John kindly translated reads 'the lifelike busts of Joseph 1 and the Wilhelmine Amalie, by the grace of God King and Queen of Rome.'.
That makes a lot more sense, Fred. Amor by the way is usually Cupid - I don't see Cupid on the medal shown?

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Re: Medallion

Post by fred » Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:27 pm

Phil2401 wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:18 pm
fred wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:16 pm
The Latin translation is a biblical reference from Kings 1, 9.5. It reads something like ‘You will never fail to have a man on the throne of Israel.’ The exact words vary according to which version of the Bible it is taken from but probably the Latin Vulgate one (I think). It appears to be Josephs promise to his people to be a proper King for them.

In more modern terms the bit that John kindly translated reads 'the lifelike busts of Joseph 1 and the Wilhelmine Amalie, by the grace of God King and Queen of Rome.'.
That makes a lot more sense, Fred. Amor by the way is usually Cupid - I don't see Cupid on the medal shown?

Phil

Top left holding a crown on the medal in the link, which is the one described in the German text but different from your one. :D

The sculptor, Philipp Heinrich Müller of Augsburg, was obviously known here because copies of his medals were used in Britain to celebrate the Toleration Act in 1689. ::g

I love the idea of it being a souvenir of a Grand Tour even if the tourist was a skinflint for not having bought a silver one. Still he probably needed the money to try and cure the exotic diseases that he picked up along the way! :D
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Re: Medallion

Post by Jellytussle » Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:14 pm

Thanks Phil, John, Fred & Saki for a fantastic bit of work. When we eventually get a replacement FLO for Leicestershire (and the Lord knows when that is likely to be..... :( ) the record that you've helped me create should be viewable on the PAS as PUBLIC-CC62FA
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Re: Medallion

Post by Phil2401 » Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:45 pm

Good stuff Jellytussle ::g will be interesting to see what the as yet non-existent FLO thinks in due course. - John and Fred - I was struggling with the 'unbeflugte' before Amor (sorry I don't seem to be able to put the umlaut above the u) - I guess it meant 'wingless' - an unusual depiction of Cupid.

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Re: Medallion

Post by SuperRed » Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:47 pm

Really nice find and post Jellytussle... I really enjoy reading these threads and looking forward to the outcome.

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Re: Medallion

Post by Danzigman » Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:42 pm

Phil2401 wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:45 pm
I was struggling with the 'unbeflugte' before Amor I guess it meant 'wingless' - an unusual depiction of Cupid.

Phil
Seemst to have differnt meanings this - unbeflügelte - As it in text context seems to mean "Unhabitated".. As a nest is abanded and no more birds live in it - unbeflügelte..
Dont put wings and glory on me.. I had a friend (German) to read the gothic german and translate for me.. I only translated further on to English.. I really not my hounour.
Hopefully a link to a idendical turns up, and we can have a correct description.. I might pop this on a german forum if I may..
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Re: Medallion

Post by fred » Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:24 pm

Phil2401 wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:45 pm
Good stuff Jellytussle ::g will be interesting to see what the as yet non-existent FLO thinks in due course. - John and Fred - I was struggling with the 'unbeflugte' before Amor (sorry I don't seem to be able to put the umlaut above the u) - I guess it meant 'wingless' - an unusual depiction of Cupid.

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I have been trying to learn German almost since the Saxons turned up on these shores. Most of the language still remains a mystery to me but just occasionally it comes in useful! :D
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Re: Medallion

Post by Phil2401 » Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:24 pm

fred wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:24 pm
Phil2401 wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:45 pm
Good stuff Jellytussle ::g will be interesting to see what the as yet non-existent FLO thinks in due course. - John and Fred - I was struggling with the 'unbeflugte' before Amor (sorry I don't seem to be able to put the umlaut above the u) - I guess it meant 'wingless' - an unusual depiction of Cupid.

Phil

I have been trying to learn German almost since the Saxons turned up on these shores. Most of the language still remains a mystery to me but just occasionally it comes in useful! :D
I did German (and French and Russian) to A level because I wasn't any good at school at anything except languages, and subsequently worked the summer on a farm in the Black Forest in 1972 (happy days, especially Amanda Schneider, the village Burgermeister's daughter) , since when the language has been no use to me whatsoever, but one day it might come in useful....

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