Any ideas?

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Spearhead
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Any ideas?

Post by Spearhead » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:01 pm

I found this today. It does look to have good Age.
Found with Nox 800, field 1, came in at number 25 and was about 12" deep on remote plough.
Celtic, Roman, Saxon and Medieval all found nearby.
It is made of bronze.
I have an idea of what it could be but I would appreciate your thoughts on what it would is please.
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Re: Any ideas?

Post by Danzigman » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:06 pm

Horse harness related buckle is my guess
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Re: Any ideas?

Post by Spearhead » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:08 pm

Danzigman wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:06 pm
Horse harness related buckle is my guess
Yes, I agree but it's the age and specific use that I am wondering about. :)

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Re: Any ideas?

Post by Ladybird66 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:10 pm

Looks like a childs (small) stirrup. An old one though. Today’s designs fasten through the top but I’m sure I’ve seen some old ones that had thin strips of leather wound around and back up to the saddle.

Just a guess x;

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Re: Any ideas?

Post by Danzigman » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:11 pm

Spearhead wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:08 pm
Danzigman wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:06 pm
Horse harness related buckle is my guess
Yes, I agree but it's the age and specific use that I am wondering about. :)
Middel 1850 to 1920... Similar to the Breading Dees buckle
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Re: Any ideas?

Post by Danzigman » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:16 pm

XP DEUS. GPP VII. GARMIN etrex 20.
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Re: Any ideas?

Post by Oxgirl36 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:19 pm

Superb ID John ::g
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Re: Any ideas?

Post by Spearhead » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:25 pm

Ladybird66 wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:10 pm
Looks like a childs (small) stirrup. An old one though. Today’s designs fasten through the top but I’m sure I’ve seen some old ones that had thin strips of leather wound around and back up to the saddle.

Just a guess x;
I see what you mean but I think it is too small. Interesting idea. Thanks.

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Re: Any ideas?

Post by Spearhead » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:27 pm

Yes, that's the one, great ID. Thanks

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Re: Any ideas?

Post by Ladybird66 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:32 pm

Live and learn ! Even at my age, learn something every day rl;

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Re: Any ideas?

Post by Spearhead » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:39 pm

Ladybird66 wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:32 pm
Live and learn ! Even at my age, learn something every day rl;
Yes it's a strange one isn't it. I still can't see how it was used?

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Re: Any ideas?

Post by Spearhead » Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:08 pm

This is why I asked, it's from an antiquities for sale catalogue. See number 71.
The item description is as follows;
No 71. Celtic bronze terret ring. Circa 1st century BC, found in Norfolk.

I am not saying it is but It should add to the debate :D
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Re: Any ideas?

Post by Spearhead » Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:53 pm


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Re: Any ideas?

Post by fred » Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:57 pm

Ouch, what a choice. What does the patina look and feel like? :D
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Re: Any ideas?

Post by alloverover » Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:06 pm

Ive had a few bits of Iceni horse tack in my mitts but never seen one of these things, nobody knows everything though :D ::g

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Re: Any ideas?

Post by alloverover » Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:08 pm

alloverover wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:06 pm
Ive had a few bits of Iceni horse tack in my mitts but never seen one of these things, nobody knows everything though :D ::g
Last bit I found, check out the patina ;) ::g

viewtopic.php?f=120&t=30922&hilit=iceni

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Re: Any ideas?

Post by Spearhead » Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:15 pm

fred wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:57 pm
Ouch, what a choice. What does the patina look and feel like? :D
The patination is not too bad and in my experience it could fit an earlier date but as you know patination does vary greatly according to the local soil conditions.

It's interesting that I have not seen this type of "buckle" in any of my books on buckles. If it was common horse tack I would have thought we would have seen them before?

In the buckle link above by Danzigman it's also interesting to read that their example was dug up too.

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Re: Any ideas?

Post by alloverover » Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:19 pm

Spearhead wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:15 pm

In the buckle link above by Danzigman it's also interesting to read that their example was dug up too.
Yes, but in Colonial Williamsburg x; :)) ::g

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Re: Any ideas?

Post by Spearhead » Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:45 pm

alloverover wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:19 pm
Spearhead wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:15 pm

In the buckle link above by Danzigman it's also interesting to read that their example was dug up too.
Yes, but in Colonial Williamsburg x; :)) ::g
Wow, the Celts got that far!

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Re: Any ideas?

Post by staters quo » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:22 pm

I've got one of them! I always had it down as an 18th/19th century bit of horse tack, a sort of D ring with a couple of tangs. Only problem is I can't find one on any of the lists of vintage horse tack, and it always struck me that those tangs would stick in.

I'm not sure the patina looks iron age, it looks Victorian and possibly even early 20th century to me. Mine came from the same field where I found the 14th/15th century dagger pommel and not much else.

So I'm as much in the dark as Spearhead on this one.

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Re: Any ideas?

Post by Spearhead » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:30 pm

My gut feel is that these are not Celtic but I still cannot understand how they were used. I don't believe they had a pin as in a buckle. The two spikes could have been mounted in wood and the whole thing could still have operated as a terret ring .......... date unknown.

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Re: Any ideas?

Post by staters quo » Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:06 pm

Yes I'm with you on that Spearhead, it's in the terret ring area. In any event I have a feeling my FLO is going to find it being slid across the desk in his direction, just in case. I'm seeing him on Friday I think.

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Re: Any ideas?

Post by Spearhead » Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:00 am

staters quo wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:06 pm
Yes I'm with you on that Spearhead, it's in the terret ring area. In any event I have a feeling my FLO is going to find it being slid across the desk in his direction, just in case. I'm seeing him on Friday I think.
It would be great if you can report back any info you get please. ::g

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Re: Any ideas?

Post by Jellytussle » Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:51 am

I've recorded two of these, and would also be interested to know what period they date from, and how they worked. Thanks to John for the Williamsburg reference - I'm more inclined to believe that than the Celtic one. It would be nice to think that they were Iron Age but I'm sure if it were then one would have turned up among grave goods which could be positively dated.
Only one of the ones I've recorded is viewable on the PAS (the other is not yet promoted - waiting for a new FLO to be appointed). If anyone's interested it's here
https://finds.org.uk/database/artefacts ... /id/955303
Looking for stuff that's been hidden or lost; finding stuff that's been thrown away....

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Re: Any ideas?

Post by Spearhead » Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:19 am

Jellytussle wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:51 am
I've recorded two of these, and would also be interested to know what period they date from, and how they worked. Thanks to John for the Williamsburg reference - I'm more inclined to believe that than the Celtic one. It would be nice to think that they were Iron Age but I'm sure if it were then one would have turned up among grave goods which could be positively dated.
Only one of the ones I've recorded is viewable on the PAS (the other is not yet promoted - waiting for a new FLO to be appointed). If anyone's interested it's here
https://finds.org.uk/database/artefacts ... /id/955303
Thanks JT, that is very interesting. I guess we may never know for certain.

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Re: Any ideas?

Post by Danzigman » Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:57 pm

alloverover wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:19 pm
Spearhead wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:15 pm

In the buckle link above by Danzigman it's also interesting to read that their example was dug up too.
Yes, but in Colonial Williamsburg x; :)) ::g
I have a strong belive that things traveled far.. Remember a story from last year, about a very rare coin - One of - that must have crossed the atlantic at least one time..
I this link you will se the name "Norge" ( Norway ) few km North of Williamsburg.. So everything plausible.. BUT.. It was the only reference I could find in a hurry, so it was more to type/use ID it, than to state it was American..

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Re: Any ideas?

Post by Spearhead » Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:03 pm

Danzigman wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:57 pm
alloverover wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:19 pm
Spearhead wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:15 pm

In the buckle link above by Danzigman it's also interesting to read that their example was dug up too.
Yes, but in Colonial Williamsburg x; :)) ::g
I have a strong belive that things traveled far.. Remember a story from last year, about a very rare coin - One of - that must have crossed the atlantic at least one time..
I this link you will se the name "Norge" ( Norway ) few km North of Williamsburg.. So everything plausible.. BUT.. It was the only reference I could find in a hurry, so it was more to type/use ID it, than to state it was American..

Image
It was a great tip off in the story of these wierd items. Thanks.

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