'Fool's Gold' - Podcast on BBC Sounds

[mrmallard]

@ LowNslow74

You say it’s not your idea but you posted it so presumably you are posting for someone else or using someone else’s idea.

You say “It's not my " idea " I am merely asking for opinion / pros / cons” and when you get some cons your don’t reply. For cons so far you have cost (which is not just £’s), repeat yearly fees, land distribution and quality finds across the country, detected or “virgin” land, decreasing finds rate, previous discussions of licensing and permits, and advising you to chat to a few landowners.
That seems like a reasonable list to start with. I also asked how you thought this would work and you can’t be bothered to reply.

Your only effort so far is to take a figure from the Independent and multiply it by 600. let’s assume the 40,000 figure is correct. It’s not but we’ll go with your choice of number. For all 40K to pay you now have a mandatory permit to detect large parts of the country. I’ll make a guess and say 20k detectorists are happy with their current lot and won’t sign up. Another 10k will sign up but £600 is more than they currently pay through organised digs so your price needs to go down for everyone. If it goes too low you won’t have enough for the landowners.

And what will the permit holders get? I have to assume you know little about agriculture and land use. A lot of those stubble fields you see are either undetectable (ever done freshly harvested rape or wheat?) or may already have been drilled in the move to min till and direct drilling. As for pasture – grass is a managed crop. With the increase in dry weather larger areas of pasture will be, or should be, off limits for much of the year. In short, access isn’t what you think it is.
How will they access the land? Every day of the week or weekends excluded? If the land is part of the scheme then my permit gives me the right to detect any of that land on the available days. How many days will be available and what stops 300 detectorists descending on a farm offering 50 acres. Who will manage the access? And so on, and so on.

You said “Done in the right way could yield so much for the regions history….” what does the “right way” actually mean. If done using correct survey techniques ALL finds will need to be GPS’d with the permit number and preliminary ID before they leave the site. All finds eligible for the PAS will need to be recorded, assuming the DCMS plans to fund the PAS and FLO contracts. And once they are all GPS’d your single hammie could be dragged into a treasure case – that’s been covered in the treasure Act which I presume you haven’t read.

And what of the landowners. How much land do they need to provide? Same fields every year or new fields? Detected of undetected? Why would they bother? If it’s just for financial gain then all they need to do is contact the groups advertising on the farming forums and say “we’ve got X acres free in 3 weeks time for a period of 2 weeks. If you want to detect then it’s £1000 a day, sort it out and let me know”. And there are groups making that work but it seems you think £20 for a day’s session where you do none of the organising is too much.

And while you’re at it, take a look at the PLA permit scheme which failed because, guess what, people continued to break the rules so they pulled the plug.

A few bits for you to think about. There are other issues but I'm not sure it's worth the bother. And I'm not really interested if you reply or call me whatever you choose.

To close. The admins of this forum have given us a search facility. Licence returns 1364 hits and permit 3509. Should give you some light reading.

[The Don]

Ayup Duck ,...Sorry couldnt resist

I would tend to disagree looking at the recent figures of total detectorists in the uk , bearing in mind this is a growing hobby ,yes numbers will fluctuate naturally ....
Lets just say all taken into consideration a proper organization was set up to govern detectorists , detecting land distribution with interested land owners and the infrastructure needed to keep the cogs moving with land owners. A Branch of the NCMD possibly ??
#### " The National Council for Metal Detecting has reported a 10% increase in membership, reaching over 300,000 members, according to The Independent.
Here's a more detailed breakdown:
England and Wales: Approximately 20,000 active detectorists.
UK Total: Some reports suggest a higher figure, potentially around 40,000.
Treasure Discoveries: In 2019, over 1,000 discoveries were made, 96% of which were attributed to metal detecting " ####
Each detectorist paying say a permit of £600 per year ...potentially 40,000 detectorists active = £24,000,000 going to the organization and land owners plus potential grants / funding administered and an added bonus of the prestige of having something of national archaeological and historical importance found on their land...i fail to see a reason why all could not benefit .....BUT saying all this maybe greater minds than mine have considered this and its a crap idea with too many pitfalls ...i dont know, im just throwing this out there as to me there has to be a better way of enjoying the hobby more consistently
than having the number 1 problem of constantly gaining permissions ...
MrMallard would welcome your thoughts
.... and Please all wade in on this one if you have an opinion

£600 a year for a permit would put detecting beyond my pocket as is paying £20 for detecting rallies (old age pension now with the April pay rise £178 a week) I've been a detectorist for nearly 40 years now and to lose the one thing I can still enjoy would be hard.
Paying for permits would not stop 'Night Hawks' etc. If someone's going to break the law Night Hawking or not declaring finds, making it harder for those who detect legally is not going to stop them in any way, and as for finding it easier to get land to detect on because getting permissions is hard, perhaps you just need to consider carefully how you go about approaching farmers for permissions, a careful approach and a good dose of charm goes a long way, I have yet to be refused permission when I have asked and that is after nearly 40 years of detecting, I know it might help that I'm a female (perhaps some of the men out there should try a wig and high heels ) and it might help that I live in the West country where people can be more laid back, but believe me if you if you prepare your approach carefully and turn on the charm you should be able to get permission without waving a fist of dollars at the farmer.
So no paid permits please! And no forcing on rallies for us lone detectorists.
It will not stop the law breakers!

The Don

[LowNslow74]

@ LowNslow74

You say it’s not your idea but you posted it so presumably you are posting for someone else or using someone else’s idea.

You say “It's not my " idea " I am merely asking for opinion / pros / cons” and when you get some cons your don’t reply. For cons so far you have cost (which is not just £’s), repeat yearly fees, land distribution and quality finds across the country, detected or “virgin” land, decreasing finds rate, previous discussions of licensing and permits, and advising you to chat to a few landowners.
That seems like a reasonable list to start with. I also asked how you thought this would work and you can’t be bothered to reply.

Your only effort so far is to take a figure from the Independent and multiply it by 600. let’s assume the 40,000 figure is correct. It’s not but we’ll go with your choice of number. For all 40K to pay you now have a mandatory permit to detect large parts of the country. I’ll make a guess and say 20k detectorists are happy with their current lot and won’t sign up. Another 10k will sign up but £600 is more than they currently pay through organised digs so your price needs to go down for everyone. If it goes too low you won’t have enough for the landowners.

And what will the permit holders get? I have to assume you know little about agriculture and land use. A lot of those stubble fields you see are either undetectable (ever done freshly harvested rape or wheat?) or may already have been drilled in the move to min till and direct drilling. As for pasture – grass is a managed crop. With the increase in dry weather larger areas of pasture will be, or should be, off limits for much of the year. In short, access isn’t what you think it is.
How will they access the land? Every day of the week or weekends excluded? If the land is part of the scheme then my permit gives me the right to detect any of that land on the available days. How many days will be available and what stops 300 detectorists descending on a farm offering 50 acres. Who will manage the access? And so on, and so on.

You said “Done in the right way could yield so much for the regions history….” what does the “right way” actually mean. If done using correct survey techniques ALL finds will need to be GPS’d with the permit number and preliminary ID before they leave the site. All finds eligible for the PAS will need to be recorded, assuming the DCMS plans to fund the PAS and FLO contracts. And once they are all GPS’d your single hammie could be dragged into a treasure case – that’s been covered in the treasure Act which I presume you haven’t read.

And what of the landowners. How much land do they need to provide? Same fields every year or new fields? Detected of undetected? Why would they bother? If it’s just for financial gain then all they need to do is contact the groups advertising on the farming forums and say “we’ve got X acres free in 3 weeks time for a period of 2 weeks. If you want to detect then it’s £1000 a day, sort it out and let me know”. And there are groups making that work but it seems you think £20 for a day’s session where you do none of the organising is too much.

And while you’re at it, take a look at the PLA permit scheme which failed because, guess what, people continued to break the rules so they pulled the plug.

A few bits for you to think about. There are other issues but I'm not sure it's worth the bother. And I'm not really interested if you reply or call me whatever you choose.

To close. The admins of this forum have given us a search facility. Licence returns 1364 hits and permit 3509. Should give you some light reading.

@mrmallard

Well that's more like it !! ..
I appreciate you going to the effort to give a more content heavy post even if it does come across as a tad waspish.
Now I can begin to understand the many many issues facing this subject which it seems is significantly more complicated than I gave it credit ,and maybe ,maybe overly complicated ...
You are quite right I do not understand land access / use / permit / licensing nearly as much as would like and I will definitely give it some further reading ...
My post was intended to be pitched more as an enquiry than an idea , seeking to find answers born of frustration from a more informed community , after all if you don't know you don't know right ? ....

[LowNslow74]

@ TheDon

"I know it might help that I'm a female (perhaps some of the men out there should try a wig and high heels "

....I'd rather flash the cash ,..it wouldn't be a pretty site

[theoriginalfatcat]

£600 a year for a permit would put detecting beyond my pocket as is paying £20 for detecting rallies (old age pension now with the April pay rise £178 a week) I've been a detectorist for nearly 40 years now and to lose the one thing I can still enjoy would be hard.
Paying for permits would not stop 'Night Hawks' etc. If someone's going to break the law Night Hawking or not declaring finds, making it harder for those who detect legally is not going to stop them in any way, and as for finding it easier to get land to detect on because getting permissions is hard, perhaps you just need to consider carefully how you go about approaching farmers for permissions, a careful approach and a good dose of charm goes a long way, I have yet to be refused permission when I have asked and that is after nearly 40 years of detecting, I know it might help that I'm a female (perhaps some of the men out there should try a wig and high heels ) and it might help that I live in the West country where people can be more laid back, but believe me if you if you prepare your approach carefully and turn on the charm you should be able to get permission without waving a fist of dollars at the farmer.
So no paid permits please! And no forcing on rallies for us lone detectorists.
It will not stop the law breakers!

The Don

Great post by T.D. above and I 100% agree with her.

I mainly go out detecting for two reasons. 1) to keep fit. 2) because it’s a hobby/interest that after equipment has been purchased has minimal cost. I like history and obviously a valuable find would be appreciated but I’m not motivated by money, if I was I wouldn’t go out detecting!

So in short, detecting is a hobby I can afford to do which does me good.

A paid for licence would most likely mean I would have to give up.

I’ve seen this idea of paid for detecting licenses floated numerous times on here and I can only presume it’s dreamed up by people with plenty of money who wish to keep detecting a little bit more for the “chosen few” - a little bit more select.

A license will not stop criminals, absolutely no way, however there are laws in place now to stop criminals. Furthermore a license would make no difference IMO to gaining permissions as this is a verbal agreement between an individual and a land owner.

[MrKeen92]

Came across this, linked to the most recent episode

https://www.shropshirestar.com/uk-news/ ... oENCyXnWGw