MDF Metal detecting & metal detectors resource: a friendly forum to discuss all your detecting needs and promoting responsible metal detecting for all.
Blackadder43 wrote:Any item is only worth what somebody is willing to pay for it.
Personally if i knew it was going to my local museum and my name would be against it as the finder then i think £800 for an item that has lain in the ground for years would be a good deal.
And a bargain at that... only wish i could have put it so well
oldartefact wrote:
So lets suppose I pay £1800 at auction (that includes a £414 Buyers Premium ... which equates to a £1386 hammer price
So if the hammer price is £1386 ... the seller pays a fee of £249
/quote]
Buyers premium is NOT included in the hammer price.
oldartefact wrote:
AOO I am not one to blow my own trumpet, but would your views change if you knew that I have a Masters Degree in Applied Statistics??? We all have different talents ... mine is Statistics (no jokes please) <:-P
I admit that I may be wrong ... but probably not on this one.
[/quote]
You are wrong on this one, whether you applied to be or not
Stunning seal, a cut above.
I certainly think £1-1.5k would be more realistic.
On the topic of auction fees the figures quoted are what the auction houses would like to charge, I've sold numerous ( non detecting) items, and you can often get them to reduce the amount the seller pays.
Good luck!
rickyp123 wrote:auction fees aint as much as 700 as said in previous post seller pays sellers fee buyer pays buyers fee go visit a couple of auctioneers and see how they value it thats the best thing i recon its not always about the money but you should be treated fairly and if you think its not fair then refuse it thats what i would do mate
c
Its only because my new year commitment of being nice that i am simply going to lay out the contract conditions for selling the main UK Auction house
Buyers premium (inc VAT) = 24% added to hammer price
Selling comission (inc VAT) = 18% subtracted from hammer price
So lets suppose I pay £1800 at auction (that includes a £414 Buyers Premium ... which equates to a £1386 hammer price
So if the hammer price is £1386 ... the seller pays a fee of £249
As said its only because I am being nice that I have spent the last 5 minutes researching the facts and doing the calculation ... So its "Job done" as they say!!!
Joking apart .. its not until one takes the time out to do the research and calculations ... that the true facts hit you like a £663 (£414+£249) hole in the pocket.
like i said buyer pays buyer fees seller pays sellers fees the seller aint going to pay both so wouldnt cost him that much and all auctions have different fees as well job done
Think that you may have missed the point ... the cost to the seller is the sum of the selling commission and the Buyers premium..
Lets say you came to my office as a private seller ... I may offer you £1800 for an item... now if you refuse and go to auction, then the max I would be willing to pay is still £1800 ... this would include my buyers premium of £414 ... and after you have paid your selling commission you would be left with £1137...
Many people dont appreciate this ... and that it is why its often beneficial to go straight to the buyer ... and cut out all the fees to the Auction house.
rickyp123 wrote:auction fees aint as much as 700 as said in previous post seller pays sellers fee buyer pays buyers fee go visit a couple of auctioneers and see how they value it thats the best thing i recon its not always about the money but you should be treated fairly and if you think its not fair then refuse it thats what i would do mate
c
Its only because my new year commitment of being nice that i am simply going to lay out the contract conditions for selling the main UK Auction house
Buyers premium (inc VAT) = 24% added to hammer price
Selling comission (inc VAT) = 18% subtracted from hammer price
So lets suppose I pay £1800 at auction (that includes a £414 Buyers Premium ... which equates to a £1386 hammer price
So if the hammer price is £1386 ... the seller pays a fee of £249
As said its only because I am being nice that I have spent the last 5 minutes researching the facts and doing the calculation ... So its "Job done" as they say!!!
Joking apart .. its not until one takes the time out to do the research and calculations ... that the true facts hit you like a £663 (£414+£249) hole in the pocket.
like i said buyer pays buyer fees seller pays sellers fees the seller aint going to pay both so wouldnt cost him that much and all auctions have different fees as well job done
JFI If you buy at auction the buyers premium is ADDED to the hammer price. So if the hammer price is £1000 the buyer (inc VAT) would pay £1240. The seller has their fee taken from the hammer price so they would receive £820 assuming it is 18%.
Anyway it isn't going to auction so lets not get hung up on auction fees.
oldartefact wrote:Let's suppose an item sells for £1800 ... one needs to knock off about £400 for the buyers premium, then another £300 for the sellers fee... leaving the seller with £1,100 ... so lets say the BM offered £800 ... thats £400 each versus the £550 at auction ... (assuming a 50:50 split) ... not a massive difference.
18% sellers fee with timeline ( if you dont have a chat first) so it £100 rather than £300
and you need to look up what a buyers premium is OA
AOO I am not one to blow my own trumpet, but would your views change if you knew that I have a Masters Degree in Applied Statistics??? We all have different talents ... mine is Statistics (no jokes please) <:-P
I admit that I may be wrong ... but probably not on this one.
I allways thought that at auctions it goes like this:
Say I sell something for 1000£
So I should pay(say 18%sellers fee) - 180£ (I should get 820£ in my pocket).
Buyer pays (say 20% buyers premium) - 200£ (Total for buyer will be 1200£)
But I might be wrong as never sold anything...
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I have no problem with being wrong ... my ID's prove that <:-P <:-P <:-P ... but I would love to hear why you think I am wrong ... Lets suppose that you have written a cheque out for £1800 for a particular item ... how much do you calculate the auction house will be taking in fees ... from you as well the seller... My M.Sc says its £609..,.
oldartefact wrote:
Think that you may have missed the point ... the cost to the seller is the sum of the selling commission and the Buyers premium..
Lets say you came to my office as a private seller ... I may offer you £1800 for an item... now if you refuse and go to auction, then the max I would be willing to pay is still £1800 ... this would include my buyers premium of £414 ... and after you have paid your selling commission you would be left with £1137...
Many people dont appreciate this ... and that it is why its often beneficial to go straight to the buyer ... and cut out all the fees to the Auction house.
oldartefact wrote:I have no problem with being wrong ... my ID's prove that <:-P <:-P <:-P ... but I would love to hear why you think I am wrong ... Lets suppose that you have written a cheque out for £1800 for a particular item ... how much do you calculate the auction house will be taking in fees ... from you as well the seller... My M.Sc says its £609..,.
Pifkus wrote " I allways thought that at auctions it goes like this:
Say I sell something for 1000£
So I should pay(say 18%sellers fee) - 180£ (I should get 820£ in my pocket).
Buyer pays (say 20% buyers premium) - 200£ (Total for buyer will be 1200£)
But I might be wrong as never sold anything"
OA replied "You are absolutely right give or take a few quid ...
So you get £820 and the buyer pays £1200 and the Auction house takes nearly £400....
Had you gone to the buyer direct he/she may well have been happy to pay you £1200 ... meaning that you would be £400 out of pocket going to Auction ..."
oldartefact wrote:I have no problem with being wrong ... my ID's prove that <:-P <:-P <:-P ... but I would love to hear why you think I am wrong ... Lets suppose that you have written a cheque out for £1800 for a particular item ... how much do you calculate the auction house will be taking in fees ... from you as well the seller... My M.Sc says its £609..,.
If the hammer price is £1800 the buyer would pay £1800 plus 24% fees of £432 meaning they would write a check for £2232. So the buyer is willing to pay far more than the hammer price.
The seller would get £1800 minus the seller fee. Assuming it is 18% £344 so receiving £1566.
So, as it isn't going to auction, and assuming it is worth £1800, then the seller is £766 worse off than the £800 offer and the buyer is £1432 better off.
I've done this in my head so apologies if any figure is slightly out.
oldartefact wrote:
Think that you may have missed the point ... the cost to the seller is the sum of the selling commission and the Buyers premium..
Lets say you came to my office as a private seller ... I may offer you £1800 for an item... now if you refuse and go to auction, then the max I would be willing to pay is still £1800 ... this would include my buyers premium of £414 ... and after you have paid your selling commission you would be left with £1137...
Many people dont appreciate this ... and that it is why its often beneficial to go straight to the buyer ... and cut out all the fees to the Auction house.
Did you get tought that squirm at university OA
I dont call £600+ squirming ...and it was Polytechnic!!! <:-P <:-P <:-P <:-P
oldartefact wrote:I have no problem with being wrong ... my ID's prove that <:-P <:-P <:-P ... but I would love to hear why you think I am wrong ... Lets suppose that you have written a cheque out for £1800 for a particular item ... how much do you calculate the auction house will be taking in fees ... from you as well the seller... My M.Sc says its £609..,.
If the hammer price is £1800 the buyer would pay £1800 plus 24% fees of £432 meaning they would write a check for £2232. So the buyer is willing to pay far more than the hammer price.
The seller would get £1800 minus the seller fee. Assuming it is 18% £344 so receiving £1566.
So, as it isn't going to auction, and assuming it is worth £1800, then the seller is £766 worse off than the £800 offer and the buyer is £1432 better off.
I've done this in my head so apologies if any figure is slightly out.
To help clarify the situation ...
lets suppose the buyer was only willing to write a cheque out for £1800 ...
That would imply that he/she would only bid upto £1452... as the auction house would ask for £348 Buyers Commission ... so if the buyer bid up to £1452 ... the seller would have to pay £261 on the £1452 hammer price ... leaving £1190 for the seller. The buyers pays £1800 .. the seller gets £1190 ... and the Auction house gets the £610 difference. Had the seller gone direct to the buyer he might have negotiated a price of £1800 ... hence the seller would be £610 out of pocket going to the Auction.
OG in your above example the item is worth not £1800 but £2232 ... the worth of the item being determined by the size of the cheque the buyer is willing to write. When Buyers bid for items they value the item at the hammer price + any commission they have to pay, whereas the seller values the item as the hammer price minus any sellers fee ...
oldartefact wrote:I have no problem with being wrong ... my ID's prove that <:-P <:-P <:-P ... but I would love to hear why you think I am wrong ... Lets suppose that you have written a cheque out for £1800 for a particular item ... how much do you calculate the auction house will be taking in fees ... from you as well the seller... My M.Sc says its £609..,.
If the hammer price is £1800 the buyer would pay £1800 plus 24% fees of £432 meaning they would write a check for £2232. So the buyer is willing to pay far more than the hammer price.
The seller would get £1800 minus the seller fee. Assuming it is 18% £344 so receiving £1566.
So, as it isn't going to auction, and assuming it is worth £1800, then the seller is £766 worse off than the £800 offer and the buyer is £1432 better off.
I've done this in my head so apologies if any figure is slightly out.
To help clarify the situation ...
lets suppose the buyer was only willing to write a cheque out for £1800 ...
That would imply that he/she would only bid upto £1452... as the auction house would ask for £348 Buyers Commission ... so if the buyer bid up to £1452 ... the seller would have to pay £261 on the £1452 hammer price ... leaving £1190 for the seller. The buyers pays £1800 .. the seller gets £1190 ... and the Auction house gets the £610 difference. Had the seller gone direct to the buyer he might have negotiated a price of £1800 ... hence the seller would be £610 out of pocket going to the Auction.
What a lovely day we would be having if we could always go straight to the seller who was willing topay the highest price
AOO wrote "What a lovely day we would be having if we could always go straight to the seller who was willing topay the highest price l;"
I totally agree ... for certain specialist items it can be done.
At the end of the day the value of an item at Auction is the amount a willing buyer is prepared to pay for it ... and that would obviously include any commission that he/she has to pay.
That said I think the BM would look at the hammer price when determining their valuation... but the actual value to the seller would be the hammer price minus the selling fee. If i am correct then the BM's use of hammer prices as a guide to valuation would be a fair way of doing it.
