Update on my ring

[The Don]

I have just heard from the British Museum and their valuer has estimated between £1700 and £1900 now have to push for the upper end, so if any of you know of a similar ring selling and what it went for please message me, as this will help (needs to be by 29 Aug).
I have added a photo off the ring to this post

GEDC4305.JPG

GEDC4296.JPG

The Don

[Phil2401]

I'm taking an interest in this as I've just got back from leaving a posy ring with the FLO today - don't expect to hear anything soon but he reckons it's treasure, date wise .... Anyway - do you have a PAS reference for your ring? I'd be interested to see what they said about it.

Also interested to see what others have to say about valuation - is it the norm to get a valuation yourself from a specialist dealer? I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that the BM's valuation is rather less than true market value...

Good Luck!

Phil

[mrmallard]

I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that the BM's valuation is rather less than true market value...

You can only know that when it sells unless an identical one sold recently. But keep in mind the market value is the hammer price PLUS ~20-30%, as the hammer price + commission is what the market is prepared to pay.....not just the hammer price!

[Phil2401]

You can only know that when it sells unless an identical one sold recently. But keep in mind the market value is the hammer price PLUS ~20-30%, as the hammer price + commission is what the market is prepared to pay.....not just the hammer price!

Yep that's true with any auction, but an independent valuation can give an indication of true market value, then factor in the selling costs and I still think it would come out a bit higher than the BM valuation....

Phil

[Batman]

I hope you're not offended but the title of your post really made me chuckle!!! Sorry.......

[ManOnTheMoon]

I have just heard from the British Museum and their valuer has estimated between £1700 and £1900 now have to push for the upper end, so if any of you know of a similar ring selling and what it went for please message me, as this will help (needs to be by 29 Aug).

An independent valuation won't be free, so a valuation fee will need to be factored into whether it is worth pursuing the idea.

The Treasure Act 1996 Code of Practice (Revision 3) has some advice regarding valuations. In paragraph 117 it states that "The Committee has issued guidance to valuers that it expects to be adhered to when supplying a provisional valuation." This sentence hyperlinks to the following page on the Public Antiquities Scheme website:

A memorandum on the definition of 'value' as understood and practiced by the Treasure Valuation Committee

Whilst the information on this PAS webpage is largely aimed at the valuers the Treasure Valuation Commitee uses, you can bet your bottom dollar it will expect independent counter-valuations to conform to similar standards.

Of note are the references regarding use of UK "public auction" values (exclusive of commission, premium and VAT) , and not to use retail prices (which have overhead costs and a profit margin). Additionally, the figures that some private buyers are willing to pay for rare and collectible items are not considered valid valuations because they are outside the 'open market'.

The following are merely a selected, illustrative trio of quotes from the PAS webpage:

"Valuations should reflect the price that would be paid for the object in a sale on the open market between a willing seller and a willing buyer, and should be expressed as such. They should correspond with the hammer price that would be expected to be received at a public auction of the object within the UK, exclusive of commission, premium and VAT ..."

"This definition of market value is understood by the TVC to differ from, and to be lower than, a retail price. A retail price is the value that a retailer would sell an item for to a consumer, and is inflated by incorporating overhead costs and a margin, allowing for the retailer to profit from the sale. Items for sale on dealer's lists, in coin and antiquity fairs or in shops are usually offered at a retail price and references such as Spink's Coins of England and the United Kingdom or Benet's Artefacts of England and the United Kingdom also give valuations at retail price."

"A private buyer may be willing to pay a premium to acquire a piece that has not already been offered for sale. That does not reflect the 'open market' price."

Food for thought.

[Phil2401]

An independent valuation won't be free, so a valuation fee will need to be factored into whether it is worth pursuing the idea.

The Treasure Act 1996 Code of Practice (Revision 3) has some advice regarding valuations. In paragraph 117 it states that "The Committee has issued guidance to valuers that it expects to be adhered to when supplying a provisional valuation." This sentence hyperlinks to the following page on the Public Antiquities Scheme website:

A memorandum on the definition of 'value' as understood and practiced by the Treasure Valuation Committee

Whilst the information on this PAS webpage is largely aimed at the valuers the Treasure Valuation Commitee uses, you can bet your bottom dollar it will expect independent counter-valuations to conform to similar standards.

Of note are the references regarding use of UK "public auction" values (exclusive of commission, premium and VAT) , and not to use retail prices (which have overhead costs and a profit margin). Additionally, the figures that some private buyers are willing to pay for rare and collectible items are not considered valid valuations because they are outside the 'open market'.

The following are merely a selected, illustrative trio of quotes from the PAS webpage:

for thought.

That is all well known, MOTM. When you have a rather special find like this it is worth the cost of getting at least a couple of independent valuations of the item. Whether or not you will be successful in negotiation with the powers that be is another matter. In one way, it is better to have a low valuation if you want to give the landowner half of its value and keep the item. Does it matter what it's worth anyway, unless you are a 'treasure hunter' and want to make profit from your finds?

Phil

[The Don]

That is all well known, MOTM. When you have a rather special find like this it is worth the cost of getting at least a couple of independent valuations of the item. Whether or not you will be successful in negotiation with the powers that be is another matter. In one way, it is better to have a low valuation if you want to give the landowner half of its value and keep the item. Does it matter what it's worth anyway, unless you are a 'treasure hunter' and want to make profit from your finds?

Phil

Not a treasure hunter, been detecting nearly 40 years, but I am an old lady living on £680 a month pension and this will be divided four ways, two land owners and two of us.
So getting a good price can make the difference between lighting the wood-burner this winter or going around the house with my overcoat on again, my daughter-in-law has already said over the last two winters that most houses you visit, you take your coat off when you call, mine you put it on.
No chance of keeping the item as it's wanted by a museum.

The Don
PS Even if the museum didn't want it there would not be an ice-creams chance in hell of me being able to afford to keep it and give the landowner money.

[The Don]

You can only know that when it sells unless an identical one sold recently. But keep in mind the market value is the hammer price PLUS ~20-30%, as the hammer price + commission is what the market is prepared to pay.....not just the hammer price!

I do have a slight ace up my sleeve if I can find it (on my old computer) and it is along the lines of an identical one, in fact just about a complete twin that sold in America a few years ago, hope I can still locate it on my old computer, could help 'big time' if I can (very good price!) I know that they will not go to the US price but could help to push it up.

The Don

[Phil2401]

I know you're not a 'treasure hunter'! There must be some room for negotiation though? The BM's valuation seems very low....OK a few hundred quid would come in useful for you but personally I'd dispute their valuation and get at least one independent assessment of market value - up to you really.

Phil

[The Don]

I know you're not a 'treasure hunter'! There must be some room for negotiation though? The BM's valuation seems very low....OK a few hundred quid would come in useful for you but personally I'd dispute their valuation and get at least one independent assessment of market value - up to you really.

Phil

I hope to do that and persuade the landowners to go along with that, I'm just getting as much ammo ready as I can before their meeting date (belt and braces).
The valuation is not the final one which is why I need to push it for the top end plus.

The Don

[The Don]

I'm taking an interest in this as I've just got back from leaving a posy ring with the FLO today - don't expect to hear anything soon but he reckons it's treasure, date wise .... Anyway - do you have a PAS reference for your ring? I'd be interested to see what they said about it.

Also interested to see what others have to say about valuation - is it the norm to get a valuation yourself from a specialist dealer? I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that the BM's valuation is rather less than true market value...

Good Luck!

Phil

Hope yours is a bit quicker than mine, found it 30th August 2020, it didn't get to coroners court till last November (covid is the excuse).
Dater base record CORN-3A69A7

The Don

[fred]

Lovely ring. Always worth looking on Ebay to see what similar rings are selling for.

[STARAIDS]

I hope you're not offended but the title of your post really made me chuckle!!! Sorry.......

Me too

[theoriginalfatcat]

Good luck with this The Don, hope all goes well.